 Poster: A snowHead
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A new tax is due to hit foreign owners of holiday homes in France from January. Controversially, the tax is to be levied upon the estimated annual rent that the property could generate rather than the amount it actually does bring in....
There are an estimated 360,000 non-resident owners of French holiday homes of which around 200,000 are British.
From: Travelmole
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
| there are suggestions it could be challenged in the European courts on the grounds that it discriminates against foreign owners of holiday homes. |
phew!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Boredsurfing, the law has been written specifically to also include French citizens who do not live there, so it's possible the law will comply. I've also been informed that if you rent out your holiday property already, you won't pay the tax, but there will probably be some rules applied on this, as already exists with UK furnished lettings.
This has already been brought up on SnowHeads a couple of weeks ago.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1787044&highlight=#1787044
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Oh, and the tax will be roughly the same as your Taxe Fonciere.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Fair enough, lets hope the UK goverment introduces the same tax over here. 
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admin, they do this in Switzerland (Eigenmietwert - sp?) but mortgage interest is deductable from the tax bill so in reality its only those without mortgages that suffer, unfortunatly thats likely to be a lot of people in France I suspect (retiree's etc). IMO it will hit capital values and flatten the market a fair bit.
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As far as I can tell the tax will be AS WELL AS income tax on rent received from the punters. So double jeopardy taxation for non resident property owners unless you rent out 100% which is impossible in the alpes holiday let market or am I missing something. Of course this is aimed at the 'second home owners' who spend 10 months of the year in France without fessing up to residency and thus the rather tasty impots sociale.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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mcspreader, not what I've been led to believe, but the devil will be in the detail, which has not yet been published or finalised.
My apartment is available for rent 52 weeks of the year.
Some in Normandy are saying that for them it will amount to less than 5€ per week. It will be around 10€ per week for me, if we have to pay it.
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Hells Bells, Need to wait and see really. It has not even been fully presented to the French legislators yet. I have only just bought my appartment and yes, it will be available for 52 weeks but I would like to use it without paying myself and the agents, etc. for the privilege when its empty which some reporters seem to imply when they mention the two sole get outs, which are recent residency or year round letting through a local agent. Then again, the place might just need eight weeks maintenance a year, mainly in the ski season. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hells Bells, how have you calculated 10 euros a week? 20% of rental value is a lot more than that.
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pam w, my notional rent is listed as 1960€, so actually it would only be 392€ per year, so I've actually overestimated.
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You know it makes sense.
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Hells Bells, that's encouraging. Where does that notional figure come from? (sorry, probably daft question to which I ought to know the answer).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, it's the Valeur Locative (on the back of your Taxe d'Habitation), which is used for Taxe Fonciere (I think) too.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hells Bells, ah - thanks. Will have a look. I spend as little time as possible looking at those documents.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, there are two figures at the top VL Brute and VL Moyenne , it's the Brute one that seems to be used to calculate the tax, the other is, I think the average VL for the commune.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| pam w, my notional rent is listed as 1960€ |
Is that an annual figure for notional rent?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, I don't think the figures haven't been updated for some time. Think along the lines of the old 'rateable values' for UK houses before the poll tax came along.
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Jivebaby, Hells Bells, thanks. Must dig out last year's Taxe d'Habitation to see what my figures are.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| pam w, there are two figures at the top VL Brute and VL Moyenne , it's the Brute one that seems to be used to calculate the tax, the other is, I think the average VL for the commune. |
Ah yes mine has an explaination note. Google translation says>>>
Valeur locative brute This is a gross basis as results from efficacy evaluation made by tax to taxation year after the declaration subscribed to the I'achevement logemenl by the owner. It takes into account the surface and the different characteristics of housing and its dependencies. This surface is multiplied by a scale communal making reference to rents RECORDED 1 • 'January 1970 (1975 in the DAM). This rental value is updated and, since 1981 (1982 in the DAM), adjusted by a factor Ie Parliament vote annually. In 2010 rental values of the previous year are thus increased by 1.2%.
Since 2008, in areas of rural revitalization has mentioned the CGI section 1465A, municipalities may by resolution of generality, untaxed housing the personal residence (primary or secondary) of the person liable for the portion IOUf '! e furnished under a cottage, furniture tourism or chamber h6tes. If any, taxpayers will benefit from this measure will the rental value of their homes burning LESS's share be exempt corresponding to the rented part furnished.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hells Bells, C'est la base brute telle qu'elle resulte de I'evaluation faite par les services fiscaux d'apres la declaration souscrite I'annee de I'achevement du logemenl par Ie proprietaire. Elle prend en compte la surface et les differentes caracteristiques du logement et de ses dependances. Cette surface est multipliee par un tarif communal faisant reference aux loyers constates au 1•' janvier 1970 (1975 dans les DaM). Cette valeur locative est actualisee et, depuis 1981 (1982 dans les DaM), revalorisee par un coefficient vote annuellement par Ie Parlement. Pour 2010 les valeurs locatives de I'annee precedente sont ainsi majorees de 1.2 %.
Depuis 2008, dans les zones de revitalisation rurale mentionnees a I'article 1465A du CGI, les communes peuvent par une deliberation de portee generale, exonerer de taxe d'habitation la residence personnelle (principale ou secondaire) du redevable pour la partie IOUf:'!e meublee a titre de gite rural, de meuble de tourisme ou de chambre d'h6tes. Le cas echeant, les contribuables beneficiant de cette mesure verront la valeur locative brule de leur habitation diminuee de la quote-part exoneree correspondant a la partie louee meublee.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Boredsurfing, merci .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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mcspreader, that's an oxymoron in France: 
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You know it makes sense.
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mcspreader, You may get a better answer to that on the other thread as this one is in snowNews and gets 'published' quite widely and thus gets modded a lot
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Boredsurfing, My question was at least partly rhetorical and not a little facetious in intent. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hells Bells, I bet that won't be reported in the DM and DT as it would go against their Eurosceptic/anti-Europe stances
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Olivier Cadic, a member of the Council for the French Abroad, said Mr Sarkozy had also realised the law would have been "electoral suicide" as French expatriates will be able to elect MPs for to parliament next year.
"All those French living abroad with homes in France would have been scandalised," he said.
He also faced the threat of opponents taking their case to the European courts, arguing the tax is discriminatory. |
There is your key reason for the U-turn. He currently needs every single vote in order to leave office with his head held high, because he currently does not have a snowball in hell's chance of being re-elected (unless the opposition do something incredibly stupid at the last minute).
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