 Poster: A snowHead
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In the intervening 2 years there have been more than several threads on that topic directly, and even more (far too many) that have morphed in to that topic, and even more still that have turned into some rather petty arguments unnecessarily.
Been done to death imho.
And there'll be another thread by the end of the month where there'll be another France vs Austria argument.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Better to keep it in one place in that case.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I rest my case
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think the thread should really be about value rather than price.
And probably about the usual Brit destinations rather than France as a whole.
Worsrt value skiing I have ever had was in Le Rossiere (or is it la) either way it was pants.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| RobW wrote: |
| ALQ, Surrey to Switzerland via Austria. I think you got a tad lost... |
via Munich n Garmisch to pick up friends.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ed123 wrote: |
| I think the thread should really be about value rather than price. |
Interesting point. Perhaps you should start a new thread (before the end of this month) to discuss and compare "value rather than price"?
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| Quote: |
I think the thread should really be about value rather than price.
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This is the conclusion I made for myself sometime back in the thread. My issue was food and drink prices. My learning was; it really depends on the ski area and the restaurant / shop. The best known ski areas tend to be the sizable ones with the most on and offpiste challenge. Less challenging ski areas get less attention. So if you are a beginner / intermediate or advanced skier who prefers more mellow terrain you have more options than for those advanced / experts that will mostly, at least in terms of a vacation trip go to a big name ski area.
Both France and Switzerland have the largest collection of large challenging ski areas, Italy and Austria slightly more mellow although there are a few exceptions (MonteRosa, Arlberg for example).
In the case of St. Anton, I think it appears to be good value for money if you are an advanced / expert skier. Switzerland's top advanced / expert ski areas are from my perspective expensive in terms of accommodation (and I imagine food / drink prices too) likely significantly because of the strength of the Swiss Franc against the pound and therefore the directed clientele.
Personally I don't think the top advanced / expert ski areas in France are expensive overall. I had some gripe about food and drink prices however I've eased my opinion, to an extent through discussion here and reading others opinion. Generally paying a bit more than at home because you are in a special place with a similar economic strength (gdp per capita) isn't so bad for me, it's the occasional violation such as 5 euro for a small bottle of Carlsberg fished out of a black bin full of snow - outdoors (no expense spared) in Val Thorens that got my goat (few months back) and a few similar experiences / observations.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 5-08-13 20:59; edited 2 times in total
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How do we judge value - £ per skiable KM 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Less challenging ski areas get less attention.
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Before anyone chimes in I realise there are exceptions; take Megeve for example, fairly mellow terrain, v. pricy / ritzy clientele. And by the sounds of it, La Rosiere.
The statement was a generalization.
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| Quote: |
How do we judge value - £ per skiable KM
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It's got to be personal opinion. I have a list of ski areas that inspire me; some that I have skied before and the rest that I would potentially like to do one day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If the price is right, lol
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
The best known ski areas tend to be the sizable ones with the most on and offpiste challenge. Less challenging ski areas get less attention. So if you are a beginner / intermediate or advanced skier who prefers more mellow terrain you have more options than for those advanced / experts that will mostly, at least in terms of a vacation trip go to a big name ski area.
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Wrong (with a couple of notable exceptions - Cham/La Grave/etc). The big ski resorts by definition are the ones that have been developed the most - cutting swathes of pistes all over the mountain, often 'landscaping' to keep them manageable. It's the little known gems off the tourist track that typically have the best terrain and the least tracks.
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Both France and Switzerland have the largest collection of large challenging ski areas, Italy and Austria slightly more mellow although there are a few exceptions (MonteRosa, Arlberg for example).
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Also wrong. Some of the great Austrian areas may well be lesser known (seen any of Hoji's footage from Pitztal? Hear why Pep Fujas rates Krippenstein as one of his favourite resorts?), but there's plenty of well documented gnar all over the Dolomites and Val d'Aosta in Italy just for starters.
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You would do well to read what I said again.
And I am well aware of the freeride areas you mention, have even been to a couple of them.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Quote:
Less challenging ski areas get less attention.
Before anyone chimes in I realise there are exceptions; take Megeve for example, fairly mellow terrain, v. pricy / ritzy clientele. And by the sounds of it, La Rosiere.
The statement was a generalization.
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Generalization, i.e low key freeride areas are less well known / in less demand, especially in relation to a vacation trip. Went without saying.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 5-08-13 22:52; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The Dolomites / Val d'Aosta (excluding the Monterosa - which I already mentioned) appear to be generally uneventful from an on-piste perspective although I base that on multiple sources recieved over time. I have limited actual experience from this region.
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Poster: A snowHead
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atraherne, Dolomiti Superski - 12 resorts, 1200 km of pistes, 450 lifts, 3000 snow cannons, possibly the most achingly beautiful alpine vistas you'll ever see and it's "uneventful". I'm thinking you haven't actually been there or to Aosta Valley because that's far from uneventful either.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
achingly beautiful alpine vistas
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The Dolomites make many other mountains look positively ordinary.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi Bode, I can trust on you to make a completely devoid post. Just remembering from before I know I need to spoon feed you, now open wide;
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generally uneventful from an on-piste perspective
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I'm thinking you haven't actually been there or to Aosta Valley because that's far from uneventful either.
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although I base that on multiple sources recieved over time. I have limited actual experience from this region.
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Gee your good at this Bode.
I have only been to La Thuile some years ago, however I have been wanting to go to Gressoney / Alagna for sometime.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| atraherne wrote: |
You would do well to read what I said again.
And I am well aware of the freeride areas you mention, have even been to a couple of them. |
| atraherne wrote: |
| Quote: |
Quote:
Less challenging ski areas get less attention.
Before anyone chimes in I realise there are exceptions; take Megeve for example, fairly mellow terrain, v. pricy / ritzy clientele. And by the sounds of it, La Rosiere.
The statement was a generalization.
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Generalization, i.e low key freeride areas are less well known / in less demand, especially in relation to a vacation trip. Went without saying. |
Maybe you should read what I said again.
Plenty of the most challenging ski areas are the ones you don't hear much about.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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clarky999, DFTT. There is no point arguing with someone who uses deliberately ambiguous statements based on zero knowledge/experience who then has to go back and rephrase what he/she/it said originally just to try and win the argument. He/she/it has enormous winterised self-esteem issues.
Oh, and the use of American spellings and the odd word here and there... haven't we seen that before?
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Clarky999,
Most people don't go to ski areas ski areas / freeride areas "you don't hear much about" / the masses don't know about for their vacation. The point was in relation to pricing and finding value in that.
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I think the thread should really be about value rather than price.
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Understanding why some of the mainstream, especially more challenging mainstream ski areas are 'pricier' I made my point. You took a major derail and started banging on about challenging ski areas few people know about.
Bode Swiller is and always has been a mook.
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So now because of another thread, I want to go to Madonna di Campiglio. It's WAY more expensive than the ski in-out premium French places. I still want to go though and that jacket too...and the skis
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| atraherne wrote: |
Clarky999,
Most people don't go to ski areas ski areas / freeride areas "you don't hear much about" / the masses don't know about for their vacation. The point was in relation to pricing and finding value in that.
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I think the thread should really be about value rather than price.
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Understanding why some of the mainstream, especially more challenging mainstream ski areas are 'pricier' I made my point. You took a major derail and started banging on about challenging ski areas few people know about.
Bode Swiller is and always has been a mook. |
You should have actually said some of that then, because there is no mention of that context in your post. Your (exact) words:
| Quote: |
| The best known ski areas tend to be the sizable ones with the most on and offpiste challenge. Less challenging ski areas get less attention. |
Though as it seems you're talking about value and bang for buck, perhaps those unknown but high quality resorts are the ones you should be researching - rather than perpetuating the myth that only the expensive big names have good/challenging skiing. It's quite simple why bigger resorts are more expensive; they cost more to run and all that investment has to be recouped. Little to do with skiing quality or challenge.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 6-08-13 1:30; edited 1 time in total
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
clarky999,
Oh, and the use of American spellings and the odd word here and there... haven't we seen that before? |
Good point.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
You should have actually said some of that then, because there is no mention of that context in your post. Your (exact) words:
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I thought it was clear enough, following on from the context of the discussion and using words such as "sizable" / "large" to infer big ski areas - on and offpiste, clearly maintstream would have been a better word.
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Bode Swiller wrote:
clarky999,
Oh, and the use of American spellings and the odd word here and there... haven't we seen that before?
Good point.
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What point?
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perpetuating the myth that only the expensive big names have good/challenging skiing.
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I didn't do that, I am well aware of a number of low key "freeride" areas, I am sure there are plenty more that I'm not.
I can see that you are a freerider; do you care for challenging piste skiing? I like both on and off, but much more experience with on piste skiing in racing etc. How many of these low key ski areas offer both excellent freeride and challenging piste skiing? Are they sizable enough to keep me entertained for at least a week?
Can you name some?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not just for my benefit but for the majority of those who take a vacation trip, i.e a week or more, mostly go to sizable areas with plenty of pistes. Advanced / experts usually want challenging on and offpiste and lots of it.
Few people go to small ski areas with few pistes when taking a vacation trip, i.e a week or more.
I have said all of that before but its clear to me now that it has to be said half a dozen times, for the "special people" to understand.
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atraherne, some of the probably lesser known (but not 'secret') areas: Achensee, Vent (amongst the other Oetztal resorts), Montafon, Axamer Lizum, Nordkette, Pitztal Gletscher, Stubai Gletscher (well known but not so much for freeride stuff), Schlick2000, Kuhtai (again known as a family resort), Brandnertal, Kasberg, Zwoelferhorn (and most of the rest of the Salzkammergut -inc Krippenstein), Galtuer (also known for other reasons), loads of stuff around Hoher/Obertauern, Dachstein area, maybe some of the smaller Zillertal areas count... And that's just a few of the Austrian ones, the rest of the Alps are presumably covered in such places too.
I do enjoy piste skiing, I don't really do much onpiste challenging stuff (racing on injected courses, bulletproof ice days) though - I'd rather go for a tour when conditions are like that. I think it's pretty rare to find a piste that's challenging in terms of 'itself' and terrain, rather than just in certain conditions. Those that are are often too steep to groom properly, so the piste definition may be a bit loose there.
Some of those resorts have enough piste skiing to keep you interested there too, some not. Some are close enough to other big areas that a 10 min bus will allow you 100's of kms of piste. Many of those areas certainly give access to enough offpiste terrain to keep you interested for a week or more, even more so if you have touring equipment. Some are also centred around a larger base area, from which you could day trip to several of the areas over a week. All give a lot for the money, for adventurous skiers.
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You know it makes sense.
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| atraherne wrote: |
Not just for my benefit but for the majority of those who take a vacation trip, i.e a week or more, mostly go to sizable areas with plenty of pistes. Advanced / experts usually want challenging on and offpiste and lots of it.
Few people go to small ski areas with few pistes when taking a vacation trip, i.e a week or more.
I have said all of that before but its clear to me now that it has to be said half a dozen times, for the "special people" to understand. |
Put it like that, yeah, but that is not what you posted before (even if it's what you were thinking when you wrote it).
You original post said that lesser-known resorts were lesser-known because they don't have enough hard skiing, which is simply untrue, and totally different to the post above.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
The best known ski areas tend to be the sizable ones with the most on and offpiste challenge.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Before anyone chimes in I realise there are exceptions; take Megeve for example, fairly mellow terrain, v. pricy / ritzy clientele. And by the sounds of it, La Rosiere.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Generalization, i.e low key freeride areas are less well known / in less demand, especially in relation to a vacation trip. Went without saying.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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atraherne,
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The best known ski areas tend to be the sizable ones with the most on and offpiste challenge. Less challenging ski areas get less attention
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I give up.
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There is no point arguing with someone who uses deliberately ambiguous statements based on zero knowledge/experience who then has to go back and rephrase what he/she/it said originally just to try and win the argument.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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But at least you know where I am coming from now.
Can you recommend some ski areas that are less well known but meet the usual criteria for an advanced / expert skier, looking to take a vacation trip.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Less challenging ski areas get less attention
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That is generally the case. Generally the same is so for low key small mainly freeride areas.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
based on zero knowledge/experience
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And you would know that how? I haven't skied in the Dolomites / significant parts of the Aosta and I openly said that. I do however know ski instructors who have and I have some opinions of it that I trust.
I have however skied a lot of areas and am a high standard skier therefore "zero knowledge/experience" is a pathetic statement to make. Even amateur skiers will have some knowledge / experience.
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atraherne, did you used to post about anger management on another forum?
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no
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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did that ages ago.
still awaiting the yawn smiley from CSM.
edit: go to francesaves more snow for us in Austria 
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I don't really know what "challenging piste skiing" is? A green cat track home run that's mobbed with people at 4pm is pretty challenging (e.g. L2A) or a glazed north facing black groomer on a spring early start are both pretty challenging. A melted isothermic blue run where you're trying to maintain enough speed to cruise the slush ponds has a different challenge. But most pistes by definition aren't in themselves challenging - it's about the conditions. It's nice IMO to blast down an empty piste or play on the side of a degraded one or cruise with nice views (where the act of skiing is subsidiary to the mountain experience) but there comes a point that "piste skiing" as beloved by many skiers is actually a bit dull.
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FAQ
