 Poster: A snowHead
|
Quick question - for alpine racing how much of the tip and tail of the ski should I de-tune for GS and Slalom?
Cheers
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
None, I wouldn't've thought.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
BritishTelemark, Depends on preference. Its more beneficial on really aggressive snow as you might find your catching edges if they are to sharp at the tip and will find it hard to release if they are to sharp at the tail. Play around with it to see what you like. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
sounds like there needs to be a little more base bevel to stop edges being caught
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Quick answer... For racing, you don't want to detune any of edge 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
primoz, Im going to disagree. I dont think i would have missed this season with a torn ACL, MCL, meniscus tears and fracture if i had its to much on hero snow...My tech detuned them a bit between warm up and race because they were catching so much, but it still was not enough......Plenty of techs and racers still detune for certain conditions, in the same way they will play with beval and what degree the edge is on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
That's totally different thing. Of course edges are done differently for pure ice or for really gripy snow, but degrees always stay same (you get used to certain settings and you really don't want to change them hour before race ). But original question was how much of tip/tail is getting detuned, not if you detune ski when snow conditions change. On average (at least for WC racers) there's no detuning on tip/tail, even though there are some racers, which are using different base angles for first 10-15cm edge on tip of SL skis, then they use for rest of ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I was refering to the tip and tail, not the entire edge. The problem was as i initiated the inside ski was biting to much because it was to sharp at the tip causing some pretty scary moments..You see it on WC, when a athlete appears to be having problems and then straddles, pulls up, instantly takes his ski off to try work out what is going on. I appreciate this is not always the cause.
| Quote: |
but degrees always stay same (you get used to certain settings and you really don't want to change them hour before race
|
Mostly but not completely true I have been to races where it is so injected techs and athletes are changing the edge angle certainly from 2 to 3 and possibly 3 to 4.
| Quote: |
On average (at least for WC racers) there's no detuning on tip/tail, even though there are some racers, which are using different base angles for first 10-15cm edge on tip of SL skis, then they use for rest of ski.
|
I dont think you can put an average on it, many athletes like different things. I know some wc athletes who like some funky set ups. Which is why i suggest playing around with it and finding a preference.
Most techs i have been around will detune a bit on the tip and tail, im not suggesting to blunt it, but to use a gummy stone to make it a little less aggresive. I have been around a lot of techs  never got good enough for my own in alpine so shared a wax room with a fair few, it is good what they will teach you for a few beers and also fairly amazing how many different opinions there are and ways of doing things. I only just got to the stage where i had one in skicross and blew my knee after a week of working with him haha. Ill get out the wax room one day
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| jjc wrote: |
| I have been around a lot of techs |
Hehehe I still am around a lot of tech (having beer, playing hockey...) as a whole lot of current WC techs are really good friends of mine, but before I have actually been one of them... on WC level So this what I wrote is basically from my own experience.
As far as edge angle goes... on WC it's somewhere between 4 and 6 degrees, depending on racer, but it's always same through the season. Believe me... you really don't want to play with this things and have different settings everytime you put skis on. With 5 or 6 degree angle ski is sharper and on injected courses it grips better (but also sharpness lasts less, which is no problem when your skis need to last one 50sec run). But there's no big difference for skiing between 3 or 6 degrees on side. Big difference is on base angle and 0 or 0.2 degrees on base makes huge difference. There's where you get problems you described. Ski is much more forgiving if you have something else then 0 on base, therefore some racers have base edge tuned so, that first 15cm or so is tuned under different degree. Majority of racers (I'm talking about WC or at least EC since there's where my experience come from) have same angle through whole ski (normally 0 for SL and 0-0.2 for GS), but there are some that do it differently. Guy, from who I got my skis (he was top5 in this years WCH), has first 10 or 15cm of SL ski set to 1.5degree and from there on to 0. But that's more of exception then not.
For different snow (gripy, icy, soft, hard...) difference is not in angles but how skis are done... you can make it extra sharp or less sharp with same degrees
PS: And I toatlly agree, that playing around finding your preferred setup is only way to go... even for recreational skiers. People can ski a whole lot better and easier with different setup then original out of store setup is. So playing around finding right one is good thing even for those, who go skiing only 5 times a year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Ski cross is different for sure. From this how your skis are prepared to angles, since (at least from this what I saw... I never tried to run or, nor I had racer doing it) it's mixture of everything... from GS to DH/SG. And mostly course is not injected either from what I heard. So I agree things are different there.
Changing base angle to 0.5 (or having bigger angle on tip and tails) doesn't have anything to do with glide by itself, but end result really is better glide. How? With 0 your ski grips into snow as soon it's not perfectly flat on snow, which stops you. With angle different then 0, it's much more forgiving, and it's still gliding even if it's not 100% flat. So on the end you have better glide, but if you are able to run ski 100% flat (I know that's never case no matter how good you are), different angles won't change glide.
For my racers, I had them sharpen same from tip to tail, but as we both said, it's personal preference. The guy I was talking about (his serviceman is really good friend of mine so there's where my skis come from, and from there I know how his skis are done) is one of top SL skiers, and his skis are done with different angles for first 10-15cm of ski. But when it comes just to sharpness it's still same all the way through ski. If you like this what you wrote (different shaprness for few cm on tip/tail) then ski this way. There's no rule in this, so, especially on WC level (no matter if it's alpine, skicross or anything else), it's all about finding thing which works best for >YOU<. What works best for someone else doesn't matter a thing
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Wow! That's a lot of very interesting information - thanks guys.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
