 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Alexandra, does s/he ski? If not, they'll never know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Alexandra, Ah - yes! But ski-ing and riding are complementary sports. (+ mountain biking). BTW I know lots of poor people who have horses too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Clearly skiing is still quite an expensive sport/passtime, but I don't think it's "only for the rich." However, if you're living on a tight budget, skiing is probably impossible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
easiski, perhaps they wouldn't be poor if they didn't have horses. They always semm to me to be pretty pricey beasts to keep.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
richmond - haha Í've not tried her on skis - but I'm willing to take a bet that a hockey stop on 4 skis would take some co-ordination! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Quote: |
at Castleford I see young kids all the time with shell suits and acne who would never have gone near a ski slope 10 years ago
|
is acne a new badge of class? must have missed that one. Yes, ski hols are expensive, so poor families could not afford them. But wealth/class lines are not synonymous, are they? Probably lots of families who could afford to ski, do not do so because it is not traditional amongst their family/friends. It is changing though, partly because of school trips (I got into ski-ing through a school trip, even though I could not afford to go again till I was 40. Nobody in the generation above mine had ever been on a ski holiday, in my family, and few had been abroad at all). You don't meet many factory workers ski-ing, though I did spend a fun day in the 3 Valleys with a guy from the same chalet, who worked in a toilet roll factory, on a punishing shift system of 9 long days on, five days off, which gave him both the money and the time to go on lots of short ski trips.
As everyone says, it's different in Scotland. We had lessons 20 years ago at a dry slope in a very depressed part of the old Ayrshire coalfield, with a broken lift (you took skis off and walked up the mud at the side, very good for the legs). There was not much evidence of upper class skiers at that slope, I can tell you. I doubt whether many of the local lads who frequented the place ever got a chance to ski on snow. I doubt whether any of them had ever been far north of Glasgow, let alone to the Cairngorms.
one of the many reasons I like small, family-oriented, French resorts is the "classless" style (or maybe I'm just not tuned in to French class markers). There seems to be no need to be seen to be "keeping up with the Joneses" in any way, including skiwear and equipment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Manda wrote: |
Is ski-ing still a class ridden sport?
As said earlier, TO ski holidays now go for the same cost of a summer's week on a beach in Costa del Tourist.
Thus these days it's the middle/lower classes that cram the pistes. |
Sorry Manda, but I disagree. With holidays going to Spain and Greece from about £100 a week, skiing is still expensive by comparison. Your average lift pass for the week will cost more than that. Consider the cost of ski clothing, equipment hire and lessons, and skiing is significantly more expensive than your average "week in Ibiza" for £99, where all you need to take with you is beach gear, which you probably already own in some form or another, and beer money!
Even beers are generally more expensive in ski resorts!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Manda, oh, please tell me chavs are not taking over the pistes. Oh how I hate those arrogant tastless people!
Julia
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Manda wrote: |
One can only wish for a return to a nice class system where only the upper class can afford to hit the slopes. Sigh |
And the roads?
I am no longer sure if we are talking money or class. What might once have been thought to distinguished class: knowledge of "culture" for example, probably never distinguished more than a sub-group (what can one say of a Royal family who's most anti-philistine credentials were apparently held by the Queen mother!)
PS
I remember a comedy "Appeal on behalf of the Nearly Rich" which defined these poor, suffering people as
"people who can't quite afford that second ski holiday"
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Manda, it's possible to get a sun 'n sea deal for £30 to £50 at the same sort of notice. If you buy all the excursions, another £200 or so all in. Very little extra is needed. Thats in the region of £250 total, you're never going to get a week in a ski resort for that price.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
How very true. 10 years ago, with a family of 5, going to cheap chalets, and insisting that the kids made do with a plate of chips and a coke at lunchtime, it used to cost near enough £2500 for a week's holiday. That's why I have now bought a small and cheap apartment in a small and cheap French resort. I try to avoid busy resorts, but if forced to choose would marginally prefer Manda's "chavs" to a whole lot of hooray henrys, thanks very much. And I think it's great that the joys of ski holidays are not confined to the rich - just the fairly rich.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
With regard to price, Crystal are knocking out holidays in Ellmau in August, September for £160 pp .
These are what they call 'Lakes and Mountains' holidays.
The distinguishing feature here will not be class, but the fact that most of the clients will be old.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Note to self: 22/07/2005, 16.50 - Agreed with one of Manda's, posts 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
[thump]. Sorry Frosty the Snowman, that was me falling off chair. [gets up, brushes self down, resettles]
 Stuff happens. Don't worry, lightening doesn't strike twice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
snowball, there is indeed confusion between money and class, but I think that we're talking class here.
BTW, the royal family are load of bourgeoise Germans, so certainly don't count as upper class.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Manda, very good value.
The cheapest that I've ever managed is £280 pp for flights, transfers, and a week in a catered chalet, but then again, I don't go for cheapness alone. But then you need to add-
£140 lift pass.
£80 one weeks ski and boot hire.
Which is already taking it into the £400 - £500 mark, before they've even bought a drink. If you're looking at some medium heavy drinking, a few snacks/lunch on the mountain, some apres ski, chalet persons night off, and I think that you would be lucky to see much change out of another £200 - £300, which is bringing us into the £6-700 per person per week range. Not the sort of thing that most lower class people can afford.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Well, like any other kinds of people there are dreadful "posh" (a word that would make them shudder) rich people and some very fine, unaffected ones too. Noblesse oblige can just occasionally be actually meant without condescension.
Was it one of the famous Bloomsbury set who was faced with a woman who claimed that her social position should have sat her somewhere else at a dinner table. On settling in her new seat she commiserated with her hostess that social etiquette must be such a bother, to which came the reply "Oh, I find that the people who matter don't mind, and the people who mind don't matter"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
That's an interesting perception, one I thought was possibly reflected in the clubs involved heavily in the snow-racing scene. I did have the feeling that the Scots clubs were relatively 'classless', in comparison to most English race clubs. I felt that this added to the noticeable divide on purely national grounds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
PG, Don't you think it could be a question of accessibility? Scots have better access to ski-ing even without much money whereas from the South you do have to spend a fair bit to get to the snow. I have at least one friend from Aviemore who learnt to ski by earwigging on lessons! (He's now a Grade 1). 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You may have a point on accessibility, I know when we liven in Kent it was nearer for us to drive to Switzerland than to Scotland 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
It's not just a money thing. I think it's more of a background / culture thing. What is it that normally prompts someone to go on a ski holiday? Probably being taken by your parents, or going with friends who ski. If it's something you or anyone you know have never done, how will you hear about how great it can be?
Take the Asian community for example. There are many wealthy Asian people in the UK in business and the professions, but you don't see many on the slopes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
brian
brian
Guest
|
|
|
|
|
|
I know one French race club trainer, youngish down to earth mountain guy, who helped out just once at the British Schoolgirls' Champs in Flaine. Chatting to him one day he recalled certain sensitive young ladies who talked to him as if he was a skivvy at their beck and call. He was amazed at their general attitude and left with the intention of never going back, even if asked! (He didn't expect to be, mind you ). Coming from a background where he trains a bunch of ordinary tough locals who treat him as the boss, failing which he gives them a good b*llocking, it was a bit of the shock to the system. I tried to explain that they were not exactly typical!
The Schoolgirls, mind you, is not representative of British races abroad in that there are a percentage of kids who are just taking part "for fun". One of the Royals raced the year before last.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Hywel, you've got a very good point - how do we define our class?
And which class do I belong to? Maternal grandparents were weavers, paternal grandfather was a ship builder (none of them had any education past age 14). My Dad was an engineer, but left school at 15 and was an apprentice, my Mum was the first to have any higher education at teacher training college. I went to Public School, and University, but my profession is traditionally known as being a domestic servant!
And I ski at one of the more expensive resorts in the USA, which gets it's fair share of the very rich, although they don't tend to be very "posh", but then although it is expensive, it's not a posh resort.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
pollittcl, I expect very many people have got similar stories. Me, for one. The sooner we can leave all this class cr@p behind us the better. Social mobility is an extremely good thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
laundryman,
| Quote: |
Social mobility is an extremely good thing
|
especially when it is downhill on cold, white stuff!!?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
"class ridden" or "stratified"?
I grew up and learned in Scotland. Which in skiing terms is relatively classless, although you do have to deal with a little attitude from climbers who clearly think themselves an ice axe above the rest (sorry, don't really mean it, oi! watch that sharp point).
However, having worked a few seasons in an un-named French resort in the late 80's I'd make a couple of generalised observations from there noticed over the last few years.
Seasonal workers have relatively less interest in skiing.
There is a significant increase in boorish, crass, rude and ignorant behaviour. This is not a social class statement per se, maybe more a statement on classy behaviour. The "Brits abroad" seem increasingly prevalent in all their least attractive aspects.
This mirrors/parallels the significant increase in (mostly SE and "estuary") brits buying local properties.
"Is skiing a class ridden sport?" maybe its natural tilt towards conspicuous consumption makes it more apparent but sadly it's not nearly such a "classy" sport any more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
When I skied as a child with my parents in the mid and late 50s the British who went skiing were mostly upper and upper middle class. This did not mean flashy gear and furs and boorish or loud behaviour but a general understatedness and courtesy. I'm never quite sure what is meant, now, by "posh" in relation to this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
We all ride the same chairlift.The only measure,on the mountain,is how good a skier you are.Wearing the correct school tie somehow has less meaning when strapped in a blood wagon 
