"No fall zone"

A snowHead

I've seen the phrase used from time to time. Intuitively, I perceive that implies a place where falling would result in grave bodily harm, or worse, death.

And I thought "I'm never going to ski anywhere that a fall would lead to such serious consequence!". After all, I'm not one who take thrill at danger. I choose to only ski in area where falls are typically nothing more than a harmless comical entertainment for onlookers.

A month ago, I was at Mommoth with a group. I've seen a couple of lines next to the lift, while rather steep, had rather good powder, and a flat'ish run out. There were a few clumps of rocks, but they were spaced well apart, plenty of space to manuver around to avoid them. So I attempted it on my own early in the morning (quite enjoyable). And when the group joined me, I invited a fairly competent skier to give it a go. He looked over it on our lift ride up, and decide it look FUN. Wink

We made the little jump off the cornice into the bowl shaped slope (steep at the top, gradually flatten out lower down). I went nice and slowly down half way and stopped to wait for my partner. He made a couple of nice graceful turns, looking totally in control and well within his comfort zone. Then he fell, body downhill of his skis...

He wasn't going very fast at the time. And his skis were out of harms way as he slowly slide passed me. He even gave me a smile as he went by, as he just succeeded in swinging his skis downhill of him. I fully expect him to stand up on the skis and continue on the next moment.

But for the next few very long seconds, he never managed to get back up on his skis. He kept sliding, now picking up speed.

I saw him attempting to self-rescue with his poles, which got strip out of his hand.

I was starting to get worried. He's now sliding with an alarming fast speed. The thought cross my mind what I can tell his wife. Shocked

But the slope slacken just enough pass that point. So he did manage to came to a stop using his skis.

Not too far below him (10-15 yards?), there were a big clumps of rocks!

It occurred to me then, had he not been able to stop at that spot, it could have very bad outcome! Sad

For the rest of the trip, I became very keenly aware of where I was on the slope, where a harmless fall MIGHT NOT be so harmless! Suddenly, I saw danger lurking everywhere! Shocked

How do YOU define "no fall" zones?

A snowHead

Thanks for posting about this. Have had similar thoughts. Usually, when contemplating entry of the Flypaper at Glencoe. It has a rock in the middle of the fall line. The serious consequences usually start going through my mind like this: 1 damaged board equals replacement cost. 2. potential injury: is it going to stop me driving myself home? - I usually ride alone. 3. Is the injury going to take time to heal and mean time off work. 4. SERIOUS consequences - might I not come back....

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

If you fall, you will probably die

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As Patch says.

I have skied a small number of places in Val d'Isere and Tignes where our guide has forbidden us from falling. For example on spring snow on the slopes between Madelaine and Le Chatelard, big convex slopes shallow enough where we skied if you fall and slide the slope gets very steep and continues for a long long way. For example traversing above a couloir to access the Sachette, the top 30m is snowy but below that the couloir is entirely small jagged rocks.

abc, read up on "self arrest" techniques. There are several threads here on Snowheads.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

In freeride competitions skiing in a NFZ will mean no points for that section of the line which will also effect your score for line selection.

Never be complacent, when you fall you must stop yourself ASAP [edit to add] where ever you are, NFZ or not, you gotta stop ASAP...

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abc, even on piste it's worth knowing how to self-arrest.

Earlier this season I was overly-agressively attacking a steep icy red run in Les Houches and a self-arrest was the only thing that stopped me hitting a pylon at high speed. It's amazing how quickly you pick up speed. By the time I'd got my skis below me; onto my stomach and stopped I'd gone about 150m.

As a minimum it's worth knowing how to get your skis below you if you're sliding down a slope head first. If you're going to hit something / someone then it's better to do it feet first.

I'm with Patch that my interpretation of NFZ is fall and probably die.

But there are also places that I think you need to ski to avoid falling. For example, the "safety first" approach to glacial skiing is to ski so as not to fall or otherwise over-stress the snow pack (e.g. aggressive, dynamic short turns) - so you should ski to avoid falling.

Similarly, you might want to avoid stressing the snow pack if you find yourself straying onto an off-piste slope where the snow is less stable than you'd assumed.

Personally, I'm prepared to ski up to "fall and you might sustain some injuries, but dying would be a freak accident". For example, a narrowish, rocky couloir is ok - as long as I'm likely to bounce off the sides, rather than onto rocks.

After all it is free

I've only once fallen on terrain steep enough that I accelerated down the hill as soon as fell. Slid for about 30-40m before deeper snow started to slow me, but that was enough to freak me out. Had just about got my remaining ski below me when I started to slow, but it was a real effort to do that. Fortunately the guys I was skiing with retrieved my missing ski which was some way above me, but rather than the sympathy I expected from them for such a mind-bening experience they were cross that I'd trashed the nice snow in the gulley that I'd dropped in to first!

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I generally think of a NFZ as being somewhere where you would have to be very lucky to survive a fall (or at least avoid very serious injury). abc, where you were sounds like what I call a "don't ski like a tw@t zone" - where a fall is likely to lead to, at least, great discomfort but is unlikely to kill you

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

basically if you fall you not be able to stop before you tumble off a cliff and die, rather than tumble in to something.

Also a 'no fall zone' for me is anywhere under or at a lift Very Happy

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Of course, it varies with conditions.

A steep slope covered with a metre of powder under blue sky could be a, "Fall as much as you like, get covered in snow, take 10 minutes to reassemble your clothing while your companions have a laugh at your expense zone." But the same slope with no powder could be a, "Fall here and you slide down sheer ice for 400m until you fall into a 50m crevasse and die zone."

Ah, the joys of skiing off piste...

You know it makes sense.

The only time I skied Glencoe there was no rock showing on the Flypaper so it wasn't a no-fall zone. It is so short with nothing bad under, that you can fall on it and most likely suffer no injury. In fact the first time I went there i meant to stop and look over the edge but caught my ski on a frozen lump and fell. I first saw the flypaper as I slid over the edge and fell all the way down - at first head first though I managed to get my legs below me before the bottom.

Sorry to cite this yet again, but many years ago I was extremely lucky to survive a fall on a definite NFZ (there are probably some newer snowheads who haven't read it)

I am only alive because I had been taught a technique to stop myself and made to practice it.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I guess I can combine the "No fall zone" and "Skiing off cornices" threads with a couple of pics.

Check out the far end of the cornice with some rocks below. We tried to downclimb the cornice and I fell and tumbled through those rocks. What really worried me was a potential steep fall to my right at the far end (not visible in the pic). I was twisting like a worm in the air, trying to go left as I was cartwheeling down the slope.

Here's a close-up shot of our group leader downclimbing towards me

Let's just say I wasn't 100% happy with the choice of terrain.

A snowHead

horizon,

Great choice apart from the cornice and rocks!

Where were you?

A snowHead

I'm regularly carrying a rope now, horizon, so if we were in those circumstances I could lower people down. I used it twice at Gressoney, once on a small rock-band with John K and once when Roger S fell into a hole where there the snow had collapsed into a small river in a canyon. Zeb was well ahead and he was 3 metres down and in danger of disappearing into a fairly deep pool (he did get some water in his boots) so was very pleased we could pull him out.

By the way, horizon, where and when was that?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

snowball, your link isn't working

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I think it is working now. (It was http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=30542#30542 ) Unfortunately my search term is getting highlighted but I can't help that.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Kind of like the "don't ski like a tw@t zone" definition. If you get too paranoid you'd never ski trees, anything with rock walls, buried hazards etc. It is terrifying however when you have a head down fall and start accelerating.

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snowball, I edited the URL of your link to remove the highlighting

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Assuming you mean Mammoth, rather than Mommoth (where?) then there are distinct No Fall Zones around the volcanic vents: you really do not want to fall into one of those.

After all it is free

snowball, Chamcham, we had hiked for half an hour from the top of Trittkopf (in Zurs). The slope on the photo would be on the left side as you're doing the standard Valluga tour. This was in January 2010.

That whole day was spent in Twilight Zone. First I forgot my transceiver in the room. Then the tumble above (yes I was skiing there without a transceiver, we were supposed to do something very mellow). Then we refused to follow the group leader down a windloaded gulley. Then we lost a snowboarder heading back to St Anton - he showed up at Mooserwirt half an hour later, very shaken. By the time I lost my camera in the Mooserwirt, I thanked the gods that they accepted such a small sacrifice.

BobinCH knows that I still get very antsy when climbing steep slopes (though I can ski the same slopes no problem)

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You say "Group Leader" was he a guide or just a mate that was leading you?

I can't talk having led myself off a cliff last year, and luckily others did not follow.

I did not have the time to think "don't fall here" rolling eyes

Quite a few times been with Per our Guide over numerous trips over the years and he has said those "words"

Once when he did not say them I took a huge fall off the back off Pic Blanc in Alpe D'Huez, Col du Milieu, top of the Grand Sablat glacier.

We were going to do a classic big descent down to Clavans.

It was first lifts and the top was still icy I lost an edge (was on a snowboard then) about 1/4 of the way down and tumbled a la "rag doll" for 50m it was estimated, when Per came along side he let out an expletive, something he never does, and I thought oh s**t I've got a bone sticking out etc but it was my board that had snapped right across the front 35cms from the top as I somersaulted down and was just being held together by the surface laminate.

That was my day fecked, so whilst the others carried on to Clavans I had to climb back up (not easy in soft boots) with the board on my backpack with the tip whacking me in the head every now and again. I then had to climb up to the telepherique and encounter a lot of people wondering what had gone on!

Anyway it's far worse being told that when you're on a board as you only have one edge and no poles, though we use to have ice axes if it was really gnarly, and then a rope.

That's probably why I switched back to skis, but I still end up in the s**t Puzzled

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Weathercam, a mate - a very strong skier who knew the area well...but maybe he has a different risk profile to mine, we messed up the group dynamics, etc

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You know it makes sense.

Help!!

"No fall zone"

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