 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
some even worship more than one helmet
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Interesting - does anyone actually own/use more than one ski helmet? Obviously not at the same time 
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The logic is inescapable-
Skiing involves an increased risk of head injury
Wearing a ski helmet reduces the risk of head injury
Therefore it is foolish to ski without a helmet.
Most on this thread would,I think agree with the above.
Research* shows that the following populations also have increased risk of head injury:-
Children playing outdoors.
Car drivers.
The elderly.
I find it scandalous that these at risk groups routinely choose not to wear helmets, inflating accident statistics and costing the NHS untold millions.
Do the country a favour and buy your grandmother a helmet. Insist she wears it at all times. You know it makes sense.
* Me vaguely clicking around Google for 5 minutes
(Confession time, I do own a ski helmet, but don't allways use it.)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Spud9,
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| (Confession time, I do own a ski helmet, but don't allways use it.) |
You clearly are not a confirmed believer!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Tiger2 wrote: |
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some even worship more than one helmet
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Interesting - does anyone actually own/use more than one ski helmet? Obviously not at the same time |
I have a Sweet Rocker and a Sweet Trooper, which are all but identical. Only the Trooper gets used for skiing though.
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Full cut Rocker for kayaking, half cut Trooper for skiing. I much prefer the full cut for kayaking where the potential of pointy rock to side of head is much greater, but didn't like it so much for skiing, and I like having the goggle clip on the Trooper. Also the Rocker smells of river water.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Timbobaggins, 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Research* shows that the following populations also have increased risk of head injury:-
Children playing outdoors.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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abc, it's far worse than that. Extensive research has discovered that all life forms have a 100% mortality rate. Now who would have believed that a year before the 2012 Olympics. Amazing stuff eh?
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| Tiger2 wrote: |
| Quote: |
some even worship more than one helmet
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Interesting - does anyone actually own/use more than one ski helmet? Obviously not at the same time |
i have 3 but i blame the russians for that
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You know it makes sense.
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| snowgate wrote: |
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You appear to have bashed the nail firmly on the head:
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With his Helmet ? What's the increased level of upper body injury related to helmet wearers ( human cannon balls )
That said, having tried Youla and the Hellbronner as the first time off piste I felt pretty exposed. I'm now looking for a suitable lid. If only to attach a camera to
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try youla on a pair of carvers, you want extreme(ly stupid) skiing.. there you have it..
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wearing a helmet without doing up the strap tightly is extreemly dangerous. Also many people wear them too far back - the front should normally be just above the eyebrows. If the helmet is not worn properly and gets knocked the back can dig into the bottom of the brain/top of spinal cord. The area of the brain that controls heart beat/breathing etc is located at the base of the brain and if the spinal cord is damaged that high up its total paralysis.
Better not to look cool than be dead or paralysed!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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abc, it's far worse than that. Extensive research has discovered that all life forms have a 100% mortality rate. Now who would have believed that a year before the 2012 Olympics. Amazing stuff eh? rolling eyes
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Where have you done your research on human mortality. Research (http://www.prb.org/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx) indicates that of the 106 billion people who have been born 5.8% of them are still alive. Even more amazing is the fact that of those 6 billion people only a tiny percentage ever wear a helmet.
John (the eternal optimist)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| T Bar wrote: |
If I was being Darwininian in my attitude to survival rather than a follower of fashion I would be wearing my helmet in my car rather than on the slopes especially as I drive far more in a year than I ski.
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I have no doubt that driving is statistically more dangerous than skiing, but that fact alone does not automatically lead me to the conclusion that I should wear a helmet in the car or that I should NOT wear a helmet while skiing, mountain biking, parachuting or taking part in any other active sport where my head is completely exposed. They are totally incomparable environments. Modern cars, unlike motorbikes, skis, mountain bikes, kayaks, parachutes, etc, already provide a reasonable level of crash protection (bodyshell, seatbelts, air bags) without having to take the additional precaution of wearing a helmet. Obviously a helmet would provide a further level of crash safety, hence why they are compulsory for all forms of motorsport, but it would only be of any real benefit in a pretty serious shunt. There's no real risk of banging your head while simply driving along. For me that's the difference with skiing and especially mountain biking, where minor head injuries are a very real possibility every time. From personal experience, bike/ski helmets have saved me from several potentially nasty head injuries (more so on the bike to be honest) while, touch wood, I've never banged my head once whilst driving my car (in 500,000+ miles). That's not to say I won't die in a car crash tomorrow, but I doubt anything other than a full face motorbike helmet would make much difference in a heavy car crash. In the same way that a lightweight ski helmet isn't going to save you if you hit a tree head on at 50 mph.
So my conclusion is that a ski helmet is a good idea in that it provides meaningful protection from relatively minor head injuries that are otherwise almost inevitable if you ski often enough, and I find them more comfortable to wear than a hat anyway. It's not that I think the risk of a serious head injury is particularly high whilst skiing - which is why I would also happily ski without one if there was no choice. But I don't see why some people consider ski helmet wearing to be illogical or stupid. You even get people on hardcore mountain bike forums who laugh at helmet wearers as if they are risk averse pussies. A lot of small willy compensation going on I feel.
As a sidenote, when will we be having a similar debate about back protectors and other body armour?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| T Bar wrote: |
If I was being Darwininian in my attitude to survival rather than a follower of fashion I would be wearing my helmet in my car rather than on the slopes especially as I drive far more in a year than I ski.
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For me that's the difference with skiing and especially mountain biking, where minor head injuries are a very real possibility every time. |
Mountain biking, agree 100%. But I can't say the same for skiing.
I've fallen and tumble over my head many times while mountain biking. But have not remember much of the same while skiing. I merely fall on my shoulder, my side, my hip. Rarely my head.
So I personally felt a ski helmet is a total waste of "protection". That they're warmer than a hat is a different matter. And it's for that reason and (almost) exclusively for that reason that I wear a helmet in mid-winter. But I've skied without one many days this season due to the warm temperature.
The only time I consider a helmet a mandatory safety gear is when I venture into the trees. Granted, that can be most of my days. Exception being when it's too bare in the trees or frozen (spring time). As such, you'll find me skiing helmet-less on most spring days.
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As a sidenote, when will we be having a similar debate about back protectors and other body armour? |
It will never happen. It's not visible so the busy-body protector wearer can't display it as a sign of their superior mental state as they do with the highly visible helmet!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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abc, Yeah sure, I don't consider it reckless to ski without a helmet. But I certainly wouldn't say that they are a total waste of protection either. I have certainly banged my head whilst skiing at least half a dozen times in the last 30 years and for me that's enough to warrant wearing a helmet - particularly as I don't find any downsides to wearing one.
But my main point was that just because I don't wear a helmet in the car, it doesn't logically follow that I shouldn't wear one for skiing or mountain biking, even though statistically speaking driving might well be more dangerous. It's just a common argument that usually gets raised at some point in any helmet debate which I felt the need to address 
I find it is usually the non-helmet wearers who are the most vocal evangelists. I know a couple of mountain bikers who make a massive point of telling everyone how helmets are actually more dangerous - the usual stuff like neck twisting, feeling of invincibility, incorrect fitting, impairing senses etc. They also seem to go to further extremes in vindicating their viewpoint with stats. Rather than just simply not wearing a helmet - which is of course their personal choice.
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| HenryL wrote: |
| Just for info I never wear a helmet although I have been knocked unconscious a number of times whilst skiing. |
That's got to be the best quote so far
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I am most impressed by the people who say they have woken up in hospital, their helmets in pieces. There is no evidence that the helmet has protected them at all. Would they have had a worse headache without one? Who knows.
Similarly. Those who died following a hit to a head might well have died even with a helmet. Who knows.
Motorcycle helmets are great thick hefty things. Plenty of skiers on here refer to speeds in excess of 100kph. Even if you're not doing it, some other nutter on the slope overtaking you is.
If you really believed in the effectiveness of a helmet when skiing, you'd wear a motorbike helmet.
Finally, who hires a helmet? That certainly is a waste of time. I was skiing with somebody who proudly said "this helmet [that he was wearing as he was speaking] probably saved my life yesterday I had such a smash with it. Best ten euros I ever spent in my life."
I asked him why he was wearing a presumably useless helmet "because the hire shop would want to charge me for a new one."
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Whilst boarding I always used to bang my head when I wore a helmet, when I fell or on the chair lift bar etc, but since I stopped wearing one I have never once banged my head  strange eh
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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uktrailmonster,
I think you make a lot of valid points my post was mainly in response to the rather throwaway remark about skiing being more dangerous than motorcycling.
I certainly don't scoff at helmet wearers and am not seeking to change anyones mind. As previously posted I have recently acquired one though it is rather in response to family /peer group pressure than any particualr belief that I should wear one.
One thing I am not so sure about though is skiings relative safety to car travel for lesser but non trivial head injuries. I have not seen the information to be confident of making a call either way with any degree of confidence. The data I quoted are for deaths of all causes and will include a fair amount of multiple trauma as opposed to isolated head injury but in both skier and road accident deaths head injury will play a prominent role. The reason for choosing death when comparing accident rates is that it is a very definate end point and the very different methods of data collection should still allow the data to be roughly compared.
I am not confident that important head injury is more likely in skiers than in car travel Road traffic accidents still remain the leading cause of head injury. In my travelling on the roads I see a lot more people carted away by ambulance in an unconcious state thatn I see carted away by the blood wagons. Statistics suggest that significant head injury remains rare amongst skiers. If mortality is approximately twice that per hour on the road than on skis and one spends approx ten times the amount of time in a year in the car than on skis then there had to be a very large difference in the proportion of serious yet non fatal trauma to fatal trauma in skiers compared with car drivers before it becomes more common in skiers.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 26-04-11 21:38; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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abc, I get your point about the difference between a compulsory requirement and an optional choice. I agree totally that recreational skiing without a helmet is certainly not reckless or even particularly dangerous. But that doesn't mean that there are no benefits to wearing a helmet if you choose and neither is it illogical or hypocritical to wear a helmet whilst skiing, but not in the car - providing that you don't consider it compulsory to wear a ski helmet.
Your last sentence should read "some skiers don't fall on their heads very often". Even the very best of skiers occasionally get things wrong in a big way. Especially off-piste where trees, rocks, various unknown hidden hazards await.
Finally I really do NEED to wear a helmet for mountain biking, trust me on that one
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| James the Last wrote: |
I am most impressed by the people who say they have woken up in hospital, their helmets in pieces. There is no evidence that the helmet has protected them at all. Would they have had a worse headache without one? Who knows.
If you really believed in the effectiveness of a helmet when skiing, you'd wear a motorbike helmet.
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Hypothetical question for you. With the prior knowledge that you are going to smack your head hard on a rock the next day, are you going to wear a helmet or not? With your reasoning above you'd probably go out in a motorbike helmet - which would be the sensible thing to do (or skip that day's skiing entirely). But the big question is, would you prefer to go out with a woolly hat or with a top quality ski helmet? I'm guessing you'd choose the woolly hat entirely on the basis that you think there is no evidence that the ski helmet would protect you at all. Maybe it wouldn't, but I'd put good money on it being more effective than a bobble hat.
Back to real life, of course the chances of you smacking your head hard on a rock are pretty slim if you know what you're doing. Which is why I don't consider it a necessity to wear a ski helmet and you'd have to be pretty paranoid to consider wearing a full face motorbike helmet while tackling blues and reds. But a good quality ski helmet is a good option providing it doesn't detract from your skiing enjoyment. Which in my case it doesn't at all and in fact I much prefer it to a hat in most conditions.
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You know it makes sense.
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| uktrailmonster wrote: |
| Finally I really do NEED to wear a helmet for mountain biking, trust me on that one |
Again, if you do NEED to wear one, then you should consider a motorbike helmet. Cycling/skiing helmets really don't impress me.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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James the Last, Well I do wear a full face mtb specific helmet for the gnarly stuff, but a motorbike helmet would be way too hot and sweaty to be a practical option. Not as much protection from a mtb helmet but a feck sight better than nothing. Each to their own hey.
You don't see many mountain bikers sans helmet and especially not out on proper techy trails.
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Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="abc"][quote="uktrailmonster"]
| T Bar wrote: |
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As a sidenote, when will we be having a similar debate about back protectors and other body armour? |
It will never happen. It's not visible so the busy-body protector wearer can't display it as a sign of their superior mental state as they do with the highly visible helmet! |
give it a season or two then once helmet sales are exhausted yuo will be able to look forward to the new range of burton external body armour.. show you care about your spine.. scientifically proven to protect your back in 75 oer of 25 per cent of a large fraction of specific falls as defined by the university of bahrain.. (sponsered by burton) all yours for 250 euros.. can your child afford not to have one???????
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Finally I really do NEED to wear a helmet for mountain biking, trust me on that one Smile
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Again, my initial motivation for wearing a mtn bike helmet is the deflect branches!
Granted, much of my mtn biking is in woodsy trails, where low hanging branches are a real nuisance. And some of those branches can be quite thick and hard. A whack to the head by one of those can be rather painful.
But I do agree I fall a lot more often while mtn biking than skiing. And the manner of fall is such I quite often end up with my head hitting the ground. Without snow covering up the rocks, it's really very unpleasant whichever part of my body touching those hard and pointy rocks.
In addition to helmets, I also wear knee and elbow guard about half of the time (when it's not incredibly hot).
All of those are not really so much to protect my life or limb. Neither the helmet nor the guards will really do me much good if I fall at high speed, or just fall the wrong way. It's mostly to protect my skin so I can bike again the next day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abc wrote: |
In addition to helmets, I also wear knee and elbow guard about half of the time (when it's not incredibly hot).
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Me too, otherwise I wouldn't have any skin left on my knees or elbows by now.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My ski helmet saved me from certain head splitting trip to hospital in sauze this year as I boarded one of the old two person chair liftsfrom sportinia. I stupidly sat straight in the middle and then when the rickety old chair lurched forward I smashed the back of my bonce on the metal chair stantion. It really hurt and I'm pretty tough having played good standard of rugby for many years. No doubt that no helmet equals hospital in this case. Furthermore I just love wearing my helmet keeps head and ears warm and stops my goggles getting steamed up when not in use
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| James the Last wrote: |
I am most impressed by the people who say they have woken up in hospital, their helmets in pieces. There is no evidence that the helmet has protected them at all. Would they have had a worse headache without one? Who knows.
Similarly. Those who died following a hit to a head might well have died even with a helmet. Who knows.
Motorcycle helmets are great thick hefty things. Plenty of skiers on here refer to speeds in excess of 100kph. Even if you're not doing it, some other nutter on the slope overtaking you is.
If you really believed in the effectiveness of a helmet when skiing, you'd wear a motorbike helmet.
Finally, who hires a helmet? That certainly is a waste of time. I was skiing with somebody who proudly said "this helmet [that he was wearing as he was speaking] probably saved my life yesterday I had such a smash with it. Best ten euros I ever spent in my life."
I asked him why he was wearing a presumably useless helmet "because the hire shop would want to charge me for a new one." |
Sorry, this is a load of crap (apart from the last bit). A load of carbon and impact absorbing foam and padding in between your head and whatever it hits? You'd have to be a complete, full on retard to not be able to see that that offers at least some protection. The only uncertainty is how much.
Motorbike helmets are too hot, and particularly heavy. Get a full face Sweet/etc instead if you feel you need that level of protection (personally preventing brain damage is much more important to me than missing a trip to the dentist, so I'm happy with the haldcut to avoid looking like a storm trooper). You say you're not impressed by ski helmets, maybe go take a look at a real one.
Upto you whether you wear a helmet or not, no-one else gives a damn, but trying to put others off them (with idiotic arguments) is irresponsible and stupid.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Upto you whether you wear a helmet or not, no-one else gives a damn, but trying to put others ON them (with idiotic arguments) is irresponsible and stupid.
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| abc wrote: |
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Upto you whether you wear a helmet or not, no-one else gives a damn, but trying to put others ON them (with idiotic arguments) is irresponsible and stupid.
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Stupid yes, irresponsible no (big difference).
All about the freedom to choose.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| ........Sorry, this is a load of crap (apart from the last bit). A load of carbon and impact absorbing foam and padding in between your head and whatever it hits? You'd have to be a complete, full on retard to not be able to see that that offers at least some protection. The only uncertainty is how much. |
I am never clear how suggesting opponents must be complete retards furthers an argument. I am also a tad unclear how 1/2" of foam with a very thin outer layer holding that in place provides protection against brain damage. When I wear a helmet I wear it because it will protect me against cuts and grazes - and from being hurt by twiggy branches when I ski through trees.
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| You say you're not impressed by ski helmets, maybe go take a look at a real one.... |
I own two helmets. I think they provide limited but useful protection in some circumstances.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Enough force applied to your head can cause brain damage. Helmets absorb force. A helmeted head will need more force applied to cause brain damage. The only question is how much extra force. Simples.
PS Yeah, sorry about the retard bit, I was being a dick.
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clarky999, unfortunately, it's not simples. The size of a helmet required confidently to avoid brain damage would be impractical for skiing. You are going over olld ground here - to be fiar so has this thread. The site dearch engine is appalling, but if you google helmets site:snowheads.com I am sure you will find a bunch.
ski-injury.com has an interesting page on the subject, with links for further reading.
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