Timid skiers

A snowHead

Not trying to have a dig at anyone but something that makes me curious. We get lots of threads asking for resort or instruction options for nervous skiers and clearly most of these people aren't never evers but pften tried it a few times but still scared of one or more of the fundamental features of resort skiing e.g. picking up speed, risk of falling, other slope users, non perfect snow.

How do instructors handle these people? I can guess at the regular stuff like starting in non-intimidating controlled environments, working on fundamental skills, building confidence slowly but isn't there a big psychological element? Are lots of people only motivated by trying to keep partners/family happy by joining them on their holiday and given a free choice would happily choose to spend their time elsewhere? Do instructors ever say to anyone - "You know what, you don't enjoy skiing so why are you punishing yourself by trying to do it?"

I'm thinking specifically of some acquaintances, he a keen if average skier, his second wife not really a fan of the cold, the outdoors etc. though a keen golfer Yet every year for 2 holidays he spends a small fortune on private lessons for her and she still is never up to skiing with the wider group (very gently). At what point is it better to say "Enough's enough"?

A snowHead

fatbob, until you said the wife was a golfer I thought you were talking about me in that last paragraph.

And I was about to come over and whack you in the head for calling me average wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

horizon, Did you think I was bigging you up too much? wink

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I reckon there's two sorts of long term timid skiers. Like fatbob says there's some that seem to be doing it only to keep their partner happy, and you wonder why they persist. On the other hand there's a group of cautious skiers who enjoy being out in the mountains, the views, the sun, the mountain restaurants,all spiced up with a moderate amount of exercise skiing a couple of blue runs, enough to bring a flush to the cheeks and justify the next coffee stop.

Nothing wrong with being a member of the second group as I see it. we are all going to be there one day anyway.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

one thng is your friends wife hawt.. if she is then he will probably think it's worth it for a bit longer Smile

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fatbob, I am (or maybe was - I'm getting better) the most timid skier you have ever seen... I also loved skiing from the very first day... and I have to admit I had no great desire to learn to alpine ski (I was keen on xc skiing though but have never done it)... being timid does not mean you don't enjoy it... just that you'd like to feel safer doing it!! I mostly just had a different tolerance level than the average person for speed and movement and sliding... I had lots of years of experience of pretty average instruction in sports and physical movement in general and fully expected to fail - I was very used to falling and getting hurt... I needed to go much slower and learn small bits... my balance was rotten even standing on 1 leg was impossible(except in really stiff hiking boots I could lift a leg for a bit longer)...

Go stand at top of Hahnen kahm and point skis straight down... I'm pretty sure at some point you will start to understand how us timid folks feel... (Ok I'm being silly but you get the idea - everyone has a limit - some of us just have much lower limits) The inability to fling yourself down a WC downhill course does not really stop you enjoying skiing does it? I'd hazard a guess that plenty of people really enjoy pottering along and prefer that to going skiing with a bunch that don't understand and want them to ski faster or on harder slopes than they like...

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little tiger, I think spud9 has the split right and I'm not suggesting that timid skiers in his class 2 who genuinely enjoy skiing and want to conquer their fears to enjoy more skiing should give up. I'm more interested in what instructors do with the class 1 - try to minimise their level of unhappiness or actively try to convert them to class 2?

This isn't a personal thing - I don't ski with the people in my example, she doesn't hold me up. I just hear the tale of woe after the event but reading between the lines I sense he gets fed up that his wife can't share with him what he loves, and being attentive and feeling a bit guilty I think he significantly curtails his skiing in the afternoons etc to be with her.

After all it is free

hmmm let me guess, 2 weeks of private lessons with some fit, hansom chappy from far flung parts or 2 weeks skiing with the old fella you brought with you?

I bet she is doing switch 9's and double corks off huge jumps in the morning and WC GS in the afternoon.

....only to revert to timid snowplough within sight of the meeting point at the end of the day Toofy Grin

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ski, the important word in that question is "enjoy", not "are any good at". The goals conversation is obviously important for Spud9's type 2, but is the "don't enjoy" question more to do with his type 1s? Is the "why are you punishing yourself" question not a valid one to them? You may of course get a valid answer, and then continue trying to enthuse them as best you can.

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fatbob, My wife is a super timid skier. She's been skiing for over ten years but has never been on a red slope. She won't go on a chair lift, only drags and bubbles. She loves what she does and is very happy with it. Normally I'd ski with my two sons in the morning, which goes something like, "Dad!!, of course you won't kill yourself in this narrow, almost vertical, rock strewn couloir". So pottering about with her in the afternoon comes as light relief. If your friend's wife is happy then maybe he should let things be. snowHead

GrahamN, I did not see that the woman fatbob was talking about hated skiing - he just thought she did not enjoy it... She could be me or Ibex wife, or a heap of other folks I know...

You know it makes sense.

little tiger I think you're clearly an example of a strong minded individual who has been willing to devote significant time and energy to achieving your goals and your perspective is interesting because maybe it indicates that there's no such thing as a class 1 skier because even if it's for non directly personal reasons they still "want" to ski to please/spend time with their partners. I guess it's also very tough, unless you find an instructor who naturally gets it, to articulate that the "want" is enough and that is becomes the reponsibility of the instructor to deliver it.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

fatbob, yeah - the folks I know who really dislike skiing just don't go... plain and simply they can think of plenty of reasons not to go - cost being one, getting hurt another... so they go to a tropical resort when the husband goes skiing... or he goes golfing/fishing/surfing while she skis etc... or she goes and spend the day in the resort shopping/lunching/getting pedicures...

If she is going for the week and spending the time in lessons not shopping/massaging/spaing - then I'd say in some way she wants to do it... Maybe she is not into it as you are I are... but everyone gets different stuff from things...

For me the feeling of control very quickly became the drawcard... I'd never really done a sport where there was someone that could articulate how to do it well enough that I could possibly do it... The closest I'd come was free weights at the gym... I still love the feeling of deciding where and how I'm going to turn and then doing the turn just as I'd planned...

A snowHead

I started skiing because my kids father wouldn't ski, and they had been offered the opportunity to ski with their Swiss godmother's family. I realised straight away that, given the chance to ski at such a young age (around 3 when they started), they would soon want to roam a mountain and I wouldn't be capable of supervising these explorations. So for the second time in my life (previously around 10 years earlier), I tried to learn to ski. I was as equally terrified as I had been before, took regular private lessons on holiday and still after a few years struggled to get down the nursery slope and was just getting more scared. I persisted only because I knew I couldn't let the kids down.

All regular SH's know the next part and that it wasn't ski lessons that fixed me, but instead it was the combined might of SH's, a special bash, an injection of confidence, and being awarded what I will always call the 'blood and guts' award at said bash. It still sits in my cabinet and often when I look down something that is a tad daunting for whatever reason, I often have a conscious thought, 'well you got the blood and guts award, you can't let the SH's down now'.

I still maintain that it wasn't lessons that fixed me, I got nothing out of the lessons until I got my shot of confidence that came with being encouraged down slope after slope. Once I had that and the faith that I stood a chance of doing what was being asked of me I then, and only then, got an enormous amount out of a lesson and still do. Enjoyment of skiing came later. I like being up in the 'ski' atmosphere of the Alps, it feels a very 'special' place to be - almost as though I have membership of some special club. Even these days I think enjoyment happens rarely. For me it is almost completely the sense of accomplishment which drives the skiing, the 'fun' factor still only rarely kicks in - normally when I've had a Yeee......haaa......moment. This may explain why I am still never happy skiing unless I think I am doing well.

N.B. Yes, and I know I'm weird

A snowHead

My wife started skiing about 8 years ago just because I skied and wanted to be able to join in. She's pretty timid by nature and it took her several snow weeks just to get to the point where she could tackle a gentle blue run. But she did enjoy it from the start, which I think is the key. She's also fiercely determined to succeed in anything she tries and never gives up (apart from when she tried to take up tennis). 8 years on and she's a very confident advanced skier and comfortable skiing pretty much anything.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Megamum, Super post. Very Happy

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I too am in the contest for the "most timid" award. I started in 2007, with many factors against me (older, not in the best physical shape, non skiing hubby). It's hard to explain why I got hooked on something I don't find easy - but I sure am hooked. I just love being in the mountains. Learning to ski is a challenge that I relish (and won't be beaten by) and the sense of elation when I get something right is downright addictive; sometimes having to work hard for a prize increases its worth. I too have to learn at my pace - no way could I respond to the "bend-ze-knees and follow me" method. What has worked for me is the Easiski approach. She takes my abilities as they are and is able to come up with a whole array of exercises that will ultimately take me to the next level. Often we make a sideways move rather than a jump up the ladder, but this builds a stable pyramid-like structure of skills which is essential for me. Having just returned from "Cautious to Confident 2011", I have just been compiling a collection of video footage of my progress since 2007. Yes it's been slow, but when I forget to have patience with my own development, I look back and realise just how far I have come. I started with a rigid ankle (due to an injury), but having done lots of exercises for it I now am starting to use flex. I am skiing steeper slopes and travelling far faster than I ever thought I would. Last year I was confined to a limited selection of LDA's slopes - this time I have been to twice as many. Although not something I'd elect to repeat just yet, I have skied two reds, one in AdH, one in LDA.

I can't wait for next time ... there's just a small matter of earning the pennies to pay for it.

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lynseyf, Oh, I probably could, but I was given the chance to ski, something that I thought I'd never aspire to (I grew up thinking it was something that 'rich' people did!). So I'm now kitted up, have made the financial outlay (which is always the barrier to any technically demanding sport) and now I ski. In addition there is no guarantee that I'd enjoy any other sport any more - what I do enjoy is horse back riding, but I got that sussed a long time ago.

Perhaps I just haven't encountered that much 'enjoyable' snow since having the ability to ski it yet. It's only been the last 2-3 weeks of skiing that I've been capable of skiing something easy reasonably well (and something difficult in 'get down it' mode). In that time good enjoyable conditions have been few and far between. Jan 2010 in Les Arcs we spent many days in very poor vis, then I week in Switzerland - now there was one fabulous night on the last evening where it dumped down about 8" of fresh and we went and grabbed first tracks in a night skiing session - that was an absolute riot and huge fun to ski in, apart from that we just spent the week pottering around that small area, then Les Arcs this year was like skiing on a billiard table and certainly no fun to ski on that surface - except for one morning when we skied through the snow park which had been freshly corduroyed with saved snow and in comparison with the rest of the resort felt so damn good/fun to ski on that we went round for a second zoom through it even though it meant riding the T bar! So I've kind of been living on the accomplishment factor - maybe 'fun' will occur on the FBash once I get some soft to ski on.

FWIW I make a mean home-made lemonade, have also done home-made ginger beer and intend to do elderflower champagne this year too NehNeh

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Butterfly, You and I both know what makes us tick, and we are not that far removed in that respect I think snowHead

After all it is free

pam w,

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Ibex,

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alibongo42, no, I can imagine that was really galling. wink

You know it makes sense.

GrahamN,

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Ok go on then - here's the tale of a timid skier!
http://youtube.com/v/wtK2YWqDqzM

Yes, there is a very long way to go yet, and yes there have been and will be more frustrations. However my sense of achievement, my total enjoyment of it and the love of the mountains makes it so very worth doing.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Butterfly, that's terrific, thanks for posting. Really good arms there, on day 5 of "Cautious to Confident" - I can hear Charlotte, in my mind's eye (or ear, rather). I've followed in her tracks making sure that downhill arm is the first thing to go round the corner. wink

We know you were suffering a lot of back problems that week, which makes your progress even more creditable. Just shows what can be done with perseverance. I feel as though I've made little or no progress this season (no tuition - though I have done drills on my own, from time to time) and I think that whatever your level of skiing, it's the feeling of progress and new challenges which is so satisfying.

Few of us have any hope of ever skiing like Gods, but that's not the point - and in other areas of leisure/sports people don't seem to think the same way. Most ofus enjoy swimming in a nice warm sea, playing in the waves, diving off the back of a boat in the Caribbean, being covered in goose pimples in the Isle of Wight, or whatever - but we don't constantly faff about whether we're really any good at it, or go for lots of lessons, do we? Some sports, skiing amongst them, can be enjoyed at a huge variety of ability levels.

I am a pretty confident skier on piste, but off piste - it's a different story. I can do it, actually, and when I've taken myself in hand I've done OK, and really enjoyed it. I had a few lessons last year. Only a few chances this season, sadly, but I had a couple of great runs down an unpisted black run after the snow fall (OK, I know that's not really off piste..... but I was alone.) and was OK. Some really good turns, some pretty crap (getting defensive, losing confidence, cross with myself, shouting aloud at myself) but stayed on feet. But I really have to be stern with myself to keep up the speed, and the attack, and not start hanging back and stopping. Long way to go, but next season, maybe.......

Is there to be another "C to C" week?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

pam w, you make a good point about other sports and lessons. I think the difference in skiing (for me) is the personal safety issue. I can swim perfectly well enough to be safe in any situation I'm likely to put myself... however when we had a go at Scuba we took professional instruction, first in a pool, then in the sea and I feel I would not go off unguided in that environment.

Well done you for tutoring yourself down that unpisted black - sounds terrifying to me! Yes there is to be another C2C next spring, definitely! We haven't discussed specific dates yet but almost certainly March. The logic behind that is that LDA is snow-sure with the glacier (and some superb confidence building terrain is up that high), so other factors come into play. January days are short and it can be very cold, by March it's warmer. We of course want to keep well away from school holidays, so that counts out much of February. The precise date in March has depended on my availabilty - next year it's a bit better. I am free anytime after Sun March 4th (Easter Sun is April 8th).

If you know anyone likely to be interested it is never too earlier to enquire.

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Butterfly, I'd entirely agree about scuba, but just pottering round on piste (even unpisted ones, I never ski closed pistes) is no more more dangerous than, say, hill walking in Wales. Sure, I could fall and twist a knee or break a leg, but there's an entire panoply of highly trained (and often rather good-looking) Frenchman just sitting around waiting to come and whisk me to safety.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I do have a friend who is a perfect candidate for your week - she just had three 1.5 hour private lessons here, a week or so ago. She was petrified but she says she feels "strangely drawn" to doing it again. So she's a possibility.

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Butterfly, At every point there is progress isn't there? Well done you. Now all you need are a few more reds under your belt and you will have it cracked. I haven't been videoed for a long time on an actual mountain - the last time was probably when we were doing exercises in HH dome with IO skiing. However, I think you are quite correct that just the threat of camera seems to put the mockers on skiing well Laughing

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pam w, I know you're right, but somehow being on my own is tons more scary than when I have someone with me - when I fell in LDA I got rescued by a very very nice Dutch man! When he knew I was ok, he skied down and told my group I was fine before disappearing. Good to hear of your friend - get her to make contact!

After all it is free

I spent many lonely hours alone trying to crack skiing when I first started. It was OK, but I have since discovered that I do better when there is someone pushing me.

Obviously I spend most time now skiing in a group with the kids and BMF_Skier since we all holiday together. What I now find frustrating is still being the worst of that group and last down the mountain (someone needs to tail the kids and it makes sense for it to be me).

Occasionally we divvy up if there are lessons involved as we might split up to collect kids whilst the other goes to sort out lunch, or I might be lessons myself and need to ski afterwards to re-group or go back to the appartment if the others have already returned. Then it's strange - I am very conscious that I am out by myself, if I fall I have to sort myself out, so I musn't injure myself, but secretly I think I quite like it. I can ski at my own pace, without worrying about holding anyone up, and I can try things that I might not do with the others. However, I quite categorically know that I don't push myself, and that is why it is probably better for my skiing to ski in the group.

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Timid skiers

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