 Poster: A snowHead
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We have booked our ski holiday for Feb 2012 to Kitzbuhel via a tour op. Never had any problems booking with tour ops before so this is new territory.
Basically we are a mixed group of adults and children so we booked Kitzbuhel as it satisifed everyone's requirements. A major element of this was the childcare as we have 2x 2 year olds and a 4 year old in the group and as it's our first ski holiday for 3 years we wanted to ski together in the mornings. We pre-booked morning childcare but the tour op has now withdrawn the childcare from the resort.
I can't find an alternative in Kitzbuhel and the tour op offered us the opportunity to change the booking. We have looked into Saalbach which has a great ski school and kindergarden but the hotel cost per person is £200 more. The tour op are refusing to meet some of this extra cost for us as a means of compensation and I am tempted to cancel and go elsewhere.
Really don't know how to proceed from here? Shall we push them harder to meet some of the extra cost, cancel and go elsewhere and start again. Surely they should have made a decision on the childcare before offering bookings and then withdrawing the option later. Really annoyed as so much time and effort has gone into booking this holiday to meet everyone's requirements.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hayls, I had a similar problem in that the Sales Operator for the company told me the child care was close by. I later found out it was the other side of the resort (not a small resort). The TO offered us alternative accommodation but that was it. I fought long and hard for more (we were a large group, travelling over New Year, there was nothing suitable left by this time) and got nowhere. This was with First Choice (who transferred our booking to Crystal half way through). I spent many many hours on the phone, by mail etc with nil result. I havent used them since. Good luck.
Edit - I did go to trading standards, who said that as I had been offered alternatives (the Hotels were not to the standard we reguired) or a full refund on cancellation then there was nothing I could do.
I did ask for telephone transcripts but the company just sent the wrong ones etc - in the end I gave up.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 6-04-11 11:09; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Suck it up and start again - if you need to travel as a large group then every so often things will happen to you that mean you can't get what you originally wanted. TO s are world experts at not paying extra compensation so push hard for equivalency or take the refund and your business elsewhere.
Edit: If its Crystal feel free to bitch directly to "frequent" snowhead Simon Cross and while you're at it ask for Mr Technique's £40.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 6-04-11 11:09; edited 1 time in total
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If you do cancel, i can absolutely 100% recommend Esprit. We're back last week from staying with them in Courchevel and the service, standard of child care was exceptional. I'd say even better than we get at home.
Sounds to me like they wanted the booking then would deal with whatever later on.
What was the cost of childcare?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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shoogly, They hooked us early by offering free childcare places. So we booked earlier than we normally would have. There were some additional childcare costs for us though of around £160. So in transfering to another resort with a childcare option, we miss out on the free childcare place and have to pay more for our hotels.
fatbob, Should we get our deposit back?
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Hayls, can you get them to transfer you to one of their other childcare resorts and honour the free childcare deal? This would be reasonable. I am guessing it is Crystal as they were offering that deal. I would really recommend Alpe d' Huez as a resort which would suit your mixed group and the Crystal childcare there is very good, as long as you are staying in the right location for it.
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I'd say that the TO is being pretty fair. Although it is not meeting your original requests they are trying to help. A refund and starting again may be the best option but IMO the TO is actign pretty well as they have contatced you well in time of the holiday (so there is still time to re-book) and are trying their best to offer different options.
You may find that the option in Saalbach is a hotel upgrade as I am pretty sure that the hotels that offer childcare are all 4* minimum.
TBH I don't see why you feel that you should be eligible for compensation - 'compensating' what exactly?
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sarah, I would be happy to consider Scheffau but some of the group found it too quiet last time. I might have to persuade them otherwise though.
flangesax, The hours we spent organising a holiday and the budget set aside have all gone out the window. Because they pulled the childcare, the holiday no longer meets our requirements and we have to pay more to get the same elsewhere. I don't want a huge payout. I just want them to cover some of the difference in cost. The tour operator have not done much at all so far other than to tell us 'tough about the childcare and you have to pay more if you want to go elsewhere'.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hayls, it is hugely frustrating isnt it 
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Personally, I don't think they are liable for the change. It is hard work organising these group trips and of course it is so frustrating when things change but as they have informed you well in time and have offered you the only one alternative which is an upgrade.
The TO can comfortably afford to offer you a full refund as they will easily sell the places to other holiday makers. It is annoying and frustrating and you have done a lot of research etc.. etc... but I don't see how the TO should be financially viable... soon everyone will start getting their payouts and then people will come on here to moan about TO prices rocketing...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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flangesax, they haven't actually offered any alternatives. We made the suggestion to them as Saalbach has a good childcare and ski school facility and they came back with a price which was much higher than our original holiday and told us that we have to pay the extra if we want it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Shimmy Alcott, Yes. I've organised group holidays for the last 10 years and it's getting harder and harder to please everyone. When this happens it's so frustrating - just when you think it's all sorted finally. This is the last year. Next time it's just the 4 of us, then there is no one else to answer to when it goes wrong!
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Hayls, if you made it clear that child care was of the essence when you booked, you might have a claim against the TO for breach of contract, and even if the T&Cs backed them you might have a case for unfair conditions of contract. But things might not go for you, and, personally, I would not bother. I would accept a refund and book again elsewhere.
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You know it makes sense.
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achilles, We did make it clear, but how we can prove that who knows. At the end of the day we will probably go ahead and book elsewhere and hope it doesn't happen again.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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flangesax, I'm afraid I dont see it quite as clear cut. They offered a specific holiday, with childcare, and happily accepted Hayls, deposit which has sat quite nicely in their bank account earning them interest. For whatever reason, probably because they make more money not providing the childcare service, they have withdrawn childcare, making it unsuitable for Hayls and her group. Legally, she is entitled to nothing extra - morally, I think they should have more responsibility.
Hayls, is it with Crystal?
I have great satisfaction in knowing I have spent tens of thousands on holidays since my problem, though not with First Choice/Crystal or TUI
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Poster: A snowHead
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Shimmy Alcott, childcare isn't an "extra". It may be offered as an incentive but it becomes part of the contract on acceptance.
I bet a pound to a penny though that the terms and conditions have a draconian cancellation clause which will allow the TO to do what they've done. Any time I book with a TO (and i usually do to be honest - self arranged is better but more hassle), I always cringe a bit when signing their terms and conditions because they are usually outrageous. I always make a point of booking on a credit card mind you so there is a bit of extra protection.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hayls, if I were you I'd ask to speak to the manager or someone senior and politely explain how many hours you spent picking this 'perfect' holiday and that you'd really like to stick with them and what can they do to keep you as a customer?
If that fails, then they should refund all your monies.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Shimmy Alcott, out of interest have you looked at the Crystal brochures/website since your issue with them?
They now make very clear the locations and distances to their childcare. They even state on some resort/property pages 'do not book childcare if staying in x as it is too far etc'.
Hayls, my sympathies, I have booked complicated group holidays for the past few years and it a nightmare pleasing everyone. Hope you find a suitable solution.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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fatbob, hahahahaha.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Is this a non story? They've given best part of a years notice, better than hearing in January. Get money back, rebook, move on or make a career out of complaining. Personally, I'm not sure Kitzbuhel is ideal for that mix anyway - quite a lot of shlepping about required.
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It's a shame when people get upset when the OP says 'Where do we stand?' and all you try to do is answer it....
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flangesax, I'm not upset, far from it, I've just lost 8lb - do you know how good that feels? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hayls wrote: |
| We pre-booked morning childcare but the tour op has now withdrawn the childcare from the resort. |
So the original holiday just became cheaper, right?
Is the difference enough to keep the holiday and book a private nanny (perhaps with a nominal top up of one or two hundred quid)?
If so, and although it could dent your pride to do so, this might be a better solution than cancelling and starting over (and still work out cheaper than the £200 per head surchage on the offered alternative) - especially if you've become emotionally attached to the resort in the meantime.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| I've just lost 8lb - do you know how good that feels? |
How can I feel something you've just lost?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
I'm not sure Kitzbuhel is ideal for that mix anyway - quite a lot of shlepping about required.
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A good point. If I were trying to sort this out I'd want my accommodation, access to the pistes and childcare all to be within a couple of hundred yards, not somewhere where we could be up different lifts, different sides of a sizeable town and have to get back to pick up kids at mid-day.
I'd just cancel the lot and start again. Annoying, but you've plenty of time to sort out something suitable. Even if child-care WAS explicitly "of the essence", provided they have given heaps of notice and offered you all your money back I don't see that you'd have any basis to pursue them.
I've never used Esprit (couldn't afford it) but they do sound very good for child-care.
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You know it makes sense.
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Frosty the Snowman, pots and kettles are springing to mind!....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Bode Swiller, it's quicker to complain and get it sorted than spend hours if not days researching a new destination that satisfies everyone. I posted the message because I wanted to know if anyone had been in the same boat before and what had happened.
Been to Kitz before and was happy with the distances between hotel, childcare and lift - it wasn't far.
TO has offered an alternative which I am happy with and they are honouring the free child care places so got there in the end. The only problem I have now is with those in the group who aren't keen on going there - too quiet apparently. Which is odd given that they usually go to bed by 9 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hayls, Saalbach is one of the liveliest resorts in Salzburgerland... they really don't need to panic about that one!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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flangesax, I know we loved it there, but this offer is to Scheffau. We would have to pay a fair bit more to get Saalbach.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Hayls wrote: |
| The only problem I have now is with those in the group who aren't keen on going there - too quiet apparently. Which is odd given that they usually go to bed by 9 |
Isn't that their problem? As you are the one taking the trouble to book the holiday, they should go along with your final choice or sort out their own trip.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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uktrailmonster, You are right and if we can't convince them in a day or so we will probably go ahead with our own booking. The joys of group holidays!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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too quiet apparently. Which is odd given that they usually go to bed by 9
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how very annoying! Like friends of ours - rather weak skiers who haven't taken a lesson since the year dot - who said the skiing in Les Saisies "wasn't very challenging". Well it's not very challenging, to good skiers, but they'd only done a couple of the reds and none of the blacks. So we didn't invite them again! Though I was tempted to do so, then lead them a merry dance as fast as I can (which isn't very fast, but a lot faster than they'd manage) round the more difficult runs.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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pam w, 
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| fatbob wrote: |
Suck it up and start again - if you need to travel as a large group then every so often things will happen to you that mean you can't get what you originally wanted. TO s are world experts at not paying extra compensation so push hard for equivalency or take the refund and your business elsewhere.
Edit: If its Crystal feel free to bitch directly to "frequent" snowhead Simon Cross and while you're at it ask for Mr Technique's £40. |
And you can also tell him that my 18 man group had a great time with Mark Warner this year after Crystal let us down, and that Crystal are obviously not even being considered for our trip next year! (I just don't want him to forget that I promised him that we won't forget!)
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To be fair to the TO, they have given (as Bode says) almost a year's notice.
Either take the holiday in its amended form, or get your money back and book elsewhere. It's not quantum mechanics.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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save an extra £2 a week and the upgrade to a better resort is paid for!! After all it was nearly a years notice you were given!
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FAQ
. Glad they have clarified them 