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Cross country skiing

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi there

To cut a long story short, I had a high speed crash February last year and I am still suffering from it now. This has obviously stopped me from skiing since, which is driving me crazy. The best solution I can come up with at the moment is to try cross country although I'm having problems deciding where to go.

My family have accommodation in Lauterbrunnen, Switzerland so I was originally going to go there - but the run in Lauterbrunnen is closed due to lack of snow, the one above Mürren is no longer in existence leaving the ones in Grindelwald as the only other option. This would be fine but the extra cost of getting to Grindelwald each day (doesn't seem cost efficient to buy a lift pass just for two journeys a day) makes it too costly for me (unless anyone can think of a cheaper solution) and it seems stupid to stay in Grindelwald when I have free accommodation so close.

I was pointed in the direction of lastminute.com where they are having a '48 hour ski sale from £99' but they all seem to be for more than 1 person, again making it too costly for me (as I am probably going alone at the moment) - I guess I may try and see if there is anyone else that would be willing to share accommodation but obviously I want to make sure I'm going to a good place for cross country first.

Basically, can anyone recommend any good resorts to go to for cross country - anywhere in Europe but probably not elsewhere as flights would probably start to price me out. I'm looking to go as soon as possible but free all the time so very flexible.

Thanks in advance
Steve
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skierbiggsy, Welcome to Snowheads snowHead , and commiserations on your crash!

As regards cross-country ski resorts, I know that Seefeld in Austria is a centre for X-C skiing. Also of course Norway.

Hope you find somewhere suitable.
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Geilo in Norway springs to mind except for the cheapness part. Scandanavia is much more orientated to Nordic type skiing. One option may be to just find a small town in Scandinavia and see if they have both Nordic tracks and a hire place rather than heading for a ski resort in the alpine sense. Sorry I can't be more specific though.

Just as an aside - I recently learnt to Nordic ski and spent a great deal of time falling over - the descending of even a minor hill is frankly terrifying compared to Alpine skis as you don't have metal edges (unless using "touring Nordic") and you don't have a locked heel. Depending on your injury gentle normal skiing may actually be more risk free. I can happily descend the Lake Louise bowls on Alpine kit but quiver with fear on the Nordic slopes at Calgary Olympic park.
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skierbiggsy, welcome to snowheads. Les Saisies is an excellent cross-country resort (1992 Olympics were held there - 120kms of pistes, amongst the highest in Europe). Piste map here http://www.lessaisies.com/ski-de-skating.html

However, depending on what your injuries are, you might find that if you are a competent alpine skier you are less likely to fall and hurt yourself cruising round nice easy alpine pistes than you are on XC skis. I am a competent alpine skier and found it extremely difficult. 2 weeks of lessons and I was still fairly rubbish.

I've seen people just kind of shuffling round a flat half mile track in the bottom of a valley (there's one on the left as you drive up to Val D,Isere). You probably wouldn't fall over doing that, but neither would it be any kind of fun. I really can't see the point of that - walking on snowshoes is much more rewarding, and easier.

Trying to slow yourself down on inch wide skis with no edges, to which you are attached only by a little clip on your toes, is scary!
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pam w wrote:

However, depending on what your injuries are, you might find that if you are a competent alpine skier you are less likely to fall and hurt yourself cruising round nice easy alpine pistes than you are on XC skis. I am a competent alpine skier and found it extremely difficult. 2 weeks of lessons and I was still fairly rubbish.

I've seen people just kind of shuffling round a flat half mile track in the bottom of a valley (there's one on the left as you drive up to Val D,Isere). You probably wouldn't fall over doing that, but neither would it be any kind of fun. I really can't see the point of that - walking on snowshoes is much more rewarding, and easier.

Trying to slow yourself down on inch wide skis with no edges, to which you are attached only by a little clip on your toes, is scary!


I agree that as a beginner on X-C it's quite easy to fall over (although unlikely to be at high speed)! Laughing
As regards the "shuffling round on the flat", when you first start doing the classic langlauf style it doesn't seem any quicker than walking. However once you learn to put in a bit more effort as you push the ski forward and then let it glide you soon realise that you can cover a lot more ground than you would walking! Downhill sections can be a bit of a challenge Toofy Grin , one method for controlling your speed is to keep one ski in the track and step out with the other ski in a half snowplough.
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Quote:

one method for controlling your speed is to keep one ski in the track and step out with the other ski in a half snowplough.

yes, that was one of the earliest lessons! I could do that, but when it got steeper the tracks disappear (because they're not safe on steeper gradients) and the whole snowplough eluded me. I had to hang on to the instructor's pole like a 4 year old. And it was certainly possible to have a moderately high speed crash - our instructor was very, very, careful not to let us get the speed out of control; he kept telling us we could "casser la figure". Laughing I went to the medical centre with my poorly grand-daughter and there was a woman evidently in lots of pain who'd broken her arm in the ski de fond area. When it's icy, it gets very fast and scary.

I agree entirely about the "shuffling around"- it's not supposed to be like that at all. But I get the impression that lots of people do that because they've never taken lessons - our instructor kept telling us it was a "sport de glisse" and that we absolutely mustn't walk! when I fell over the front of my skis for the first time he was thrilled and told me I was definitely getting the hang of it! As that was about day 4 I suspect he was despairing of me; definitely the class dunce. I was learning to snowboard at the same time and found that a lot easier, actually.

I suspect some resorts have nothing but those flat tracks where shuffling is perfectly possible, even though it's not what real cross country skiers do.
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For cross-country skiing I recommend you go to Lapland. In the scarcely-populated, open and flat terrain you'll find lots places to go with beautiful scenery. Just google for "lapland cross-country" and you'll find lots of helpful websites. Don't know about cheap flights, though.

As others have testified, cross-country skis are no good for descending any but the mildest slope. However, the point is to ski on flat land, where they are much faster than snowshoes. This (among other things) is why Lapland is perfect for cross-country skiing.
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Quote:

cross-country skis are no good for descending any but the mildest slope. However, the point is to ski on flat land

Well, not necessarily. There are plenty of people who are perfectly capable of descending the steeper cross country tracks (black runs) in Les Saisies. I'm just not one of them. Only the free beginner circuit is flat - all the rest of the runs have some kind of gradient. You can swoosh down the gentler ones in the tracks, and the technique of gliding uphill is pretty neat. I much preferred uphill to down, actually. You see some quite elderly people cross country skiing (some classic, but many of them skating) and their economy of movement is a joy to behold, as are their muscles.

I'd love to be able to do it well and have had some useful discussions on SHs with people who know about it who have recommended I use more supportive boots and try a slightly different kind of ski.
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A site where to find cross-country tracks (ski de fond) in France
http://www.nordique-france.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=nordique.listeStations
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skierbiggsy, Can you not get from Lauterbrunnen to Grindelwald by train? I think it's one change but can't remember where.

As for places to ski with instruction, the packages with instruction out of the UK are not cheap, and don't generally do last minute discounts - Firms like XCUK, Inntravel, Headwater and Exodus spring to mind. And this lot are a mine of information: http://www.rollerski.co.uk/cross.html

Last year we got a late booking with Neilson to Geilo. It's sold as a downhill resort, but does have good XC, including skis to hire. About £300 each in a catered chalet, inc flights and transfers. All of the others in the chalet had booked later and paid less. I spent about £30 on top for lunches, coffees etc. Mr N spent at least double that, but he bought a round of beers. It was a great week. (Apart from some slight issues with an ash cloud). The local instructors all spoke excellent English and I am sure could teach XC. Norway has some amazing ski-ing, but it's quite hard to find XC instruction and good ski-hire. Kvitaavatn used to excel at both, and still did when I was last there (about three years ago).

In the Alps, if you speak German, I recommend Ramsau am Dachstein. It's a shortish train ride from Salzburg. But you might struggle to find an instructor who speaks much English. There are loads of other places - just google cross-country skiing and the country name.
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As already mentioned, Seefeld in Tirol, not far from Innsbruck is a mecca for cross-country skiing, with enough trails for a whole week of skiing, and every level from beginner to black.

http://www.seefeld-langlauf.at/

I've skied the easier flat trails in Seefeld, around Leutasch. There are fairly regular bus services that allow you to get to/from the trails and restaurants/guesthouses along the way too.

Seefeld is all setup for this type of skiing and downhill skiing is the poor cousin (rather than the other way around which it normally is).

Cross-country skiing is also very popular in the Bavarian Forest near the Czech border (Bodenmais, for example) but is more rolling hills than mountains, more forested and more remote.

Other places I recommend are Bayrischzell, Lenggries, Oberammergau also in the Alps in Bavaria and accessible from Munich. They have hire shops, ski schools, small loops just outside the town but also longer 5-20km trails off up valleys, restaurants to stop for lunch, etc.

Ruhpolding in Germany also hosts lots of cross-country events but I've not been there.

None of these places are big downhill resorts which is why they are less well known.

The season is nearly over for this winter in all these places though. Sad
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Another possibility in Austria is Hochfilzen. At 1000 m the snow may last a little longer, though there probably aren't as many other attractions as in Seefeld, for example.
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Quote:

The season is nearly over for this winter in all these places though.

not over by a long way in Les Saisies. This picture was taken in a very warm late March - the village in the background is at 1600m. Should be good well into April - right through till the end of the Easter holidays, with luck. Plenty of instruction available, classic and skating, and all levels. Most of the instructors will be able to speak English to varying extents, but if you're in a group which is otherwise Francophone you might need to put up with a fair bit of French, too.
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Bessans at the top of the Maurienne valley has cheap self catering accommodation and loads of excellent x country at a very snow sure altitude. If going with alpine skiers Bonneval and Val Cenis are a short bus journey away.
There are also very good trails in Monetier in Serre Chevalierand stunningly beautiful ones close to Serre Che in the Vallee Claree though without your own transport these are not so easily accessed,


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 2-03-11 23:22; edited 1 time in total
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The Vercors massif is a great area for cross country skiing - the forest between Villard de Lans and Correncon provides a range of tracks, as well as sites/sights of interest (eg Valchevriere - a village not rebuilt, but left as a memorial to the resistance fighters). Other areas in the Vercors include Autrans, Vassieux - I'm not sure how snow-sure it is, though, as it's quite a while since I've been there. There's also some alpine skiing at some of these resorts. in case you feel the need . . .
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
SkiingDad wrote:
As others have testified, cross-country skis are no good for descending any but the mildest slope.

Not exactly Wink Highest measured speed I had during races was over 90km/h. I doubt there's many people here, who are able to do this on alpine skis. Wink So you can do quite a bit more (including skiing 50cm powder on 60-70degree steep slope in mountains around here Wink) on xc skis... but just as with alpine skis, it takes some practice first Wink

As far as original question goes, you can find good xc skiing track almost everywhere. Sure Scandinavia is great, but even middle Europe is perfect. For Austria, I would take Ramsau anytime (even though I hate Dachstein glacier), but there's whole lot of other places including Seefeld. In Switzerland, you have St. Moritz and Engadin area, or Davos where xc skiing is really great. For Italy it's Val di Fiemme, Aosta valley etc etc. But as I said, it's a whole lot easier to find great xc skiing place then great alpine skiing place. For xc skiing all you need is 50km of tracks, so you don't make endless laps, nice view and that's it. And believe me, there's more then enough such places everywhere.
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I f i was going X-country skiing for the first time I would head to one of the nordic countries. Finland, Sweden and Norway all offer some great x-c skiing with lessons and hire easily available. Check out Geilo in Norway, Tandalen in Sweden and Kuopio in Finland. These are some ideas but you can find many more sresorts in all of the countries both Oslo and Helsinki normally offer good X-C skiing until mid April
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Quote:

Highest measured speed I had during races was over 90km/h

primoz, Shocked I see people on XC skis on downhill runs sometimes - generally blue ones, as few can emulate your feats. But even coping with those skis on a blue run is something I find deeply impressive, having tried them myself. We sometimes see whole groups of very good kids on XC skis - the local ski club uses them to teach greater finesse, when they can't rely on their equipment to hold them up.
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I thought St Moritz to cross country is like Chamonix to downhill skiing.

I did cross country first in Chamonix and found it too hard. One day we tried the downhill and never got back to croiss country since.

In cross country you have to propel yourself sometimes up the slope too and there is no chairlift in the circuit.
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pam w wrote
Quote:

We sometimes see whole groups of very good kids on XC skis - the local ski club uses them to teach greater finesse, when they can't rely on their equipment to hold them up.


I agree - seeing what the local schoolkids can do on XC skis can be very disheartening whan you're not so great, but it certainly gives me something to aspire to. snowHead[/b]
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I'd recommend Norway - some nice runs around Sjujoen (spelling?) above Lillehammer of various standards. Some good self catering chalets available, not to expensively, can't comment about the local hotels. I flew in to Oslo (which also has good local skiing above it at Holmenkolensome ofthe skiers from my local club are skiing there at the moment wink and doing reasonably well with atop 30 in the sprints!).

However, as previously mentioned, I fall over a lot more frequently on xc kit than I do on my downhill kit. Though to be fair most of my xc is done in scotland these days and is a lot harder tham most of the xc I've done in Europe as the snow conditions are harder.

I've skied Ruhpolding, decent range of xc skiing, but it is quite low at 700m. Spent most of my time skiing the tracks close to the biathlon range, some of which are quite steep, but there were a range of tracks starting from the edge of town and others just a short train journey away.
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I grew up on cross country skis, and love that sport. It's only my even greater love of powder that keeps me from doing it very often.

Few of the major alpine skiing destinations cater well for cross country, but I would echo what people have said about Scandinavia. If you're on a budget though, look no further than the Czech Republic - Krkonose, Jizerske Hory or Sumava all have amazing networks of cross country trails, beautiful forested countryside, and it is still incredibly cheap compared to anywhere in Western Europe. All those ranges are within 2 hrs drive of Prague, so fly and drive is the best option.

I have also come across great cross country in Val Gardena, and Canada is absolutely amazing for cross country, but probably further than you want to go.

Regarding safety - it is definitely much easier to fall on cross country skis, as they are thin, no heel attachment and no edges. It feels counterintuitive but pressing down with your heel makes snowploughs a lot easier, and also allows parallel turns with a bit of practice. I have paralelled turned down red pistes before, but anything steeper than that you're probably best of taking them off and walking. Unless you are a tele whizz Smile

My biggest fall on X-country skis, I actually broke one ski in half. Also be aware of the two main disciplines - classic and skating - as the equipment is different. I prefer skating but it's a little more physical - especially on the uphill sections. Classic you have the age old dilema of waxing choices, if you are complete beginner, start with wax-free skis (little serrated edges under the wax chamber) which are, surprisingly, wax free. They are however frustratingly slow once you become a little more profficient.
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Quote:

My biggest fall on X-country skis, I actually broke one ski in half. Also be aware of the two main disciplines - classic and skating - as the equipment is different. I prefer skating but it's a little more physical - especially on the uphill sections. Classic you have the age old dilema of waxing choices, if you are complete beginner, start with wax-free skis (little serrated edges under the wax chamber) which are, surprisingly, wax free. They are however frustratingly slow once you become a little more profficient.


Depends on conditions - waxless skis are great fro scotland as temperatures tend to be in the Klister zone, which means waxing is a pain. I regularly skate on my classic skis as my skate skis are too good to risk unless conditions are really good, but my boots are combi/pursuit boots good for both. Just bought some new waxless classic skis with metal edges, but track ski width for use in dodgy scottish conditions - now all I need is some fresh snow so I can get out on them.
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pam w, it's just practice nothing more.... and spending way too much time on skis Laughing We did a big share of stupid things back in my racing days, including going with xc skis over 30m ski jumping hill (my best result is 18m with no fall), having speed skiing race down the outrun of HS140m ski jumping hill (you can imagine what is speed on bottom when going down from table of that hill), and on end of season it was normal to go off piste skiing with xc skis not alpine skis... and most of time off piste meant pretty steep mountains not easy flat ski resorts Smile
But just search on Youtube for Red bull nordix and you will see what can be done. Or if someone finds video few guys from Swedish xc team made year or two ago, when they had too much time on end of season (whole bunch of jumping and stuff). I tried to find it now, but no luck.

Dave Horsley, it's normal that you fall more on xc skis then on alpine skis. Everyone do that, including xc skiers. There's much less stability on xc skis, no edges on icy tracks are not really helpful either, and speed on downhills is normally not as low as someone might think, but in general there's a lot less injuries with xc skiing then with alpine skiing. Sure I had few bad crashes during my racing career, but only two concussions I had, were both when having fun between gates on alpine skis. With xc skiing, whole bunch of broken poles and skis, bruises and scratched skin was all I had (hopefully I won't crash and break something more then ski or pole on afternoon when I will pop for bit of xc skiing after I will pick accreditation for weekend races in Kranjska Gora Laughing )
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primoz, I know what speed you can get up to on xc kit I've skied some of the tracks used for races at Ruhpolding (before they were remodelled) most of which have tarmac underneath so you can also rolleski them in the summer - which would really scare me! I've also seen the stupid things kids and racers get upto on xc kit when they shouldn't. Somewhere on YouTube is some of the GB squad skiers doing a little jumping on xc kit, though not quite upto your 18m standard.
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When it comes to roller skiing, worse track you can get is Ramsau roller ski track. I don't know if they changed it lately, but 15 years ago it was one helluva scary ride. It went fine uphill, but downhills were crazy. In winter it's so much easier since even if you fall you just slide down the snow, in summer crashing on asphalt or then off the track into trees and bushes is everything but fun. And that course was scary one... so scary that most of us rather risked being fined for roller skiing on local roads then going that that roller ski track.
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[quote="primoz"]pam w, it's just practice nothing more.... and spending way too much time on skis Laughing We did a big share of stupid things back in my racing days, including going with xc skis over 30m ski jumping hill (my best result is 18m with no fall), having speed skiing race down the outrun of HS140m ski jumping hill (you can imagine what is speed on bottom when going down from table of that hill), and on end of season it was normal to go off piste skiing with xc skis not alpine skis... and most of time off piste meant pretty steep mountains not easy flat ski resorts Smile
But just search on Youtube for Red bull nordix and you will see what can be done. Or if someone finds video few guys from Swedish xc team made year or two ago, when they had too much time on end of season (whole bunch of jumping and stuff). I tried to find it now, but no luck.

Are you Primoz Peterka? Crikey. The crowd on here is a lot more hardcore than I had guessed Shocked
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Dave Horsley wrote:
Quote:

My biggest fall on X-country skis, I actually broke one ski in half. Also be aware of the two main disciplines - classic and skating - as the equipment is different. I prefer skating but it's a little more physical - especially on the uphill sections. Classic you have the age old dilema of waxing choices, if you are complete beginner, start with wax-free skis (little serrated edges under the wax chamber) which are, surprisingly, wax free. They are however frustratingly slow once you become a little more profficient.


Depends on conditions - waxless skis are great fro scotland as temperatures tend to be in the Klister zone, which means waxing is a pain. I regularly skate on my classic skis as my skate skis are too good to risk unless conditions are really good, but my boots are combi/pursuit boots good for both. Just bought some new waxless classic skis with metal edges, but track ski width for use in dodgy scottish conditions - now all I need is some fresh snow so I can get out on them.



Ah the joys of skiing in Scotland, where normal ski kit is useless Very Happy


Yep, klister waxing is definitely a dark art! And yes I also do a lot of skating on my classic ski's, and have adjustable poles just for this reason. Combi boots rule.
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You know it makes sense.
Pam nope I'm not Primoz Peterka even though I have same first name Laughing I know him, I was still racing when he won first races, but that's it Smile
VamP klister is not all that bad nowadays. For recreational skiing nowadays you need more or less just two different ones. Now when you have fluoro klisters, things are whole lot easier, then before without fluoro. Fluoro in kick waxes reduces chances of wax making ice under your foot, so with two universal klisters (for example Swix KR50 and KR60) you are pretty much done. Before it was magic and big pain in the a** to wax for conditions where you had part of course with icy track and other part with cold dry snow. Nowadays it's no much of problem anymore. Sure things are different when racing, but for recreational thing it's not that bad.
Otherwise if someone asks me, classic is way to go. It's more natural movement, and if someone likes it or not, it's easier for people to learn. Most of recreational skiers think skating is easier to learn, and they know how to ski skating perfectly, but they would change their mind fast if someone would show them video of themself skiing Wink
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I would have to recommend the Bavarian resort of Oberstdorf. It has some of the best XC that I've come across (and I've done a fair bit). It is easy to get to with flights to Münich, Memmingen and Friedrichshafen. Relatively good value, offers great scenery and superb trails (classic and skating).
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Firstly, thanks for the responses so far. I wasn't expecting anything like as many or for them to be so quick so thank you very much Very Happy.

I probably should have said in my OP that the injury I received was concussion - and quite severe I guess as that / post concussion syndrome is what is giving me the problems now - I was off school till October when I tried to start university (but had to withdraw after a term due to the affects it was still having)!

As a result, I still can't downhill ski (my doctor said it was probably still too early), hence why I am planning on trying cross country. I may be wrong (please correct me if I am), but my understanding is that cross country (especially as a beginner), should be a lot smoother than downhill (bumping and jolting my head normally make it worse), even if the risk is of falling is much higher (surely there is less risk of hitting my head again). The other reason for cross country is that as you can imagine, a year and a bit of not being able to do much exercise has meant I am quite out of shape now, and from things I have read, cross country skiing is one of the best all round work outs you can do. Obviously I know that this may not work out for me and it may create more problems for me but I'm hoping that being out in cold fresh air, surrounded by snow (my favourite environment - as I'm sure it is for many of you too) will counteract this.

I was planning on trying the skating style (although would probably try classical as well) for a number of reasons - 1) From what I can see it gives you a better work out. 2) I read somewhere that if you are a reasonably experienced down hill skier (I have skied for 20 something weeks) it is easier to pick up. I don't know how similar it is and I might sound a bit naive assuming this but the technique looks similar-ish to when you skate on skis (say when just starting or on a long flat bit where your speed won't carry you) - is this correct or are they nothing like each other? (I say this because I can skate on skis pretty well so thought it would be another advantage over classical).

In response to a couple of people:

nordicfan - you can either change at Zweilutschinen or go over the top, changing at Kleine Scheidegg. However, I made a mistake when looking at the prices of this. I think I mis-read the price so instead of a return being something like 57CHF with a half price card (which seemed madness to me and very wrong), it is in fact something like 8CHF. Because of this, I am now considering it as a back up (free accommodation is obviously a big plus but not great snow because of how low it is, ski hire seemingly more expensive than most other places and only a few runs open all detract from it).

Yellow Pyranha - don't tempt me Very Happy. The rest of my family have been in Lauterbrunnen over half term which hasn't exactly helped me Sad. And been looking at various web cams multiple times a day since the start of the season so don't need any encouragement.

Dave Horsley - You mentioned about how you once skated on your classical skis. Is it much harder to do one technique on the other techniques equipment? Also, is it possible to do the opposite of you and do classical on skating skis or do you have to skate all the time?

Sorry for going on a bit, but this is my final question. This may sound like a bit of a stupid question and I think I already know the answer but are you allowed to use alpine skis for cross country and if so, how easy is it? (I didn't bring my skis back after my crash so they're still in Lauterbrunnen, and obviously removing the cost of ski hire would be a big plus).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

are you allowed to use alpine skis for cross country

the experts will give you a more complete answer, but conventional alpine skis and bindings would be completely pointless - far too heavy and slow, and they wouldn't fit into the tracks (for classic). You could go and skate around XC tracks on alpine skis but it would be totally knackering and horrible. Even I could easily overtake you on classic XC skis - and I'm an elderly lady! Touring bindings would be a different kettle of fish, obviously, and I see quite a lot of touring skiers round our way. But not in the XC area. I think it would be boring for them - no spectacular descents to compensate for all that climbing.

Sorry to hear about your concussion. I would think you'd be wise to wear a helmet if you go XC as you will pretty certainly fall - I am rather encouraged that even the expert XC skiers say they fall a lot.

Dave Horsley - what are those "track width, metal edged" skis of which you speak? Sound like what I'd like. I have still not completely given up the idea of doing a bit more XC, especially as we are in such a good resort for it. The boots I had were very soft and light, super comfortable for pottering round the shop but with absolutely no support, and my technique just wasn't up to it. And I did have two weeks of lessons, two consecutive weeks - the beginners course, twice!! The second instructor focussed more on drills (looking round behind us, skiing on one leg etc) and I think I need to do more of that, really, to gain more confidence.

I think the ski school in Les Saisies recommend that anyone who has done no XC start with classic. I would have thought it would be far easier than going straight to skating - technique wise, not just aerobically. And the post from Primoz confirms that. I can skate moderately competently on my alpine skis but uphill? For miles? No thanks. wink
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Some suggestions in France as a x/c skier (amongst other disciplines). Just back from La Feclaz.

La Feclaz (on the plateau in the Bauges) above Chambery
Bessans - Haute Maurienne, Savoie. - great scenery too and unspoilt.
Les Saisies - but it's probably not the best for beginners as there's lots of climbs / descents.

The two main techniques - classic (ski's normally parallel and using machined in tracks); skating - movement like an ice skater.



I'd recommend getting an instructor so that whatever style you choose that you get a good technique to start with.

Have fun!
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Please don't even consider using alpine skis for this. XC skiing is really great sport (personally I would say it's by far best sport you can get), and using alpine skis for this is perfect recipe to hate it in first minute already, and never go back to it.
As far as classic on skating skis or vice versa goes there are few things to consider. If we are talking about real classic or skating skis (racing, or semi-racing ones), then there's no way to go classic on skating skis, while it's possible to go skating on classic skis, even though it's not as easy. Ski construction is totally different for classic as it's for skating. Arc of ski is done totally different, so there's no way you could get at least kinda normal glide and still have some grip on kick while using skating skis. I think my English is not good enough to explain how one or the other ski is done, but lets try. With a bit of exaggeration classic ski is done out of 3 parts. You have flat part on top and bottom of ski (about 1m on front, 60 or 70cm on back), and then you have about 30 cm on middle, where is all "arc" on ski. Here comes kick wax. When you are standing on both skis, this "arc" is above ground and ski is gliding on front and back flat part (where it's just glide wax). When you put weight only on one ski, this arc bends and kick wax grips into snow.
With skating skis there's just one big arc from tip to tail. This means glide is better, and ski doesn't "dig" into snow even when all weight is on one ski. But this means, you need to wax almost all ski with kick wax, if you want to get some grip for classic. Does this make any sense?
So yes, you can do skating with classic equipment, but you can't do opposite. But even then, you need to know, that poles for classic are much shorter then for skating (I'm 181cm and my skating poles are 165cm while classic are 157cm). Boots are also different, since for skating it's nice to have some side support, while for classic boots are almost like running shoes with no side support.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
primoz,

I know what you mean about skating on snow - much harder to learn initially than classic, though I reckon classic is harder to do well. Interestingly I can skate reasonably well on rollers and do a decent distance at speed, yet I'm poor skating on snow I can't keep the skating going for the same distance or speed as I can on rollers.

I've heard about the Ramsau track from some of our squad skiers and the biathletes in the development squad at our races - sounds scary especially when they told me how much skin they left in ramsau wink
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Yep. Have to 100% agree with primoz, do not even think about using alpine equipment. You'll hate it, and everyone else will hate you as you'll be demolishing those lovely tramlines. On the plus side, cross country gear is much cheaper to rent than alpine. I would suggest renting classic skis, but adjustable poles, so you can experiment with skating. Combo boots will also help (they are like skating boots but with removable ankle support). Messing about with waxes and sometimes getting it wrong is such a big part of the x-country experience, you might as well go down that route. Lots of x-country pub talk is about wax selections Smile
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
pam w,

I picked up a pair of these:
http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/sportenhighlandermge1011-p-11248.html

Now you'd think I'd be able to pick up some highlanders in Scotland, but nope had to order from the Pyrenees wink. Mounted with Salomen Profil classic bindings bought from Huntly, mounted on club night using the HNOC jig. Not tried them yet as most of the low level forest snow has melted.

Interestingly this season I've seen a lot of people out on Salomon xadv89

http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/salomonxadv89grip1011-p-12755.html

or the narrower Salomon xadv69

http://www.braemarmountainsports.com/products.php?cat=26&prod=1410

but for me even the 69s are a bit too wide and wouldn't fit easily into the tracks and a bit too heavy, plus not really suitable to a track binding and boot, but a bit light weight for a telebinding and low plastic boot.

I'm hoping the Sporten Highlanders will be a nice light weight waxless ski, good for classic in the forest, but with a metal edge for a bit more control when the conditions are hard and icy and when the ruts are all frozen in. Lets hope for some more snow so I can try them out.

primoz,

I'll have to have a look at your Klister selections - if I'm out on my waxing skis its often in Klister conditions. So far I tend to use Swix universal or Swix red. My main grip is getting the stuff off afterwards - seems to get everywhere.

Poles wise I classic on snow with 145cms, classic on rollers with 150s as there tends to be a lot of double poling and I've skated on my classics using these poles. I skate on rollers with 160s and I have a new set of carbon poles for skating on snow that should be 160s but are a bit longer (my fault I made them up from a kit and I either cut them slightly long or the handles not on as far as it should be). May swap the tips and use the slightly longer poles for rollerskis and the others for snow.


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 4-03-11 10:36; edited 1 time in total
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
skierbiggsy,

As Primoz says, you can't classic on skate skis as there is no waxing pocket for the grip wax - a section in the middle of the ski that is lifted off the snow unless you transfer all your weight to the one ski (and to some extend a bit more than all your weight by a dynamic transfer of weight to the one ski). Skating on classics is not so bad, but if waxed for classic the grip wax will be a hindrance as it will be 'grabby' and you can get the same effect from the fishscales with a waxless ski.

Using downhill skis for xc. They will weigh a tonne, your heel will be fixed, and the boots will be horrible for any distance and you won't be able to classic. That will limit you to skating which I find easier on alpine width skis as balancing on a single ski that is 89mms underfoot is a lot easier than one about 40mms underfoot and at tip and tail, but even with skate length poles skating with such heavy skis and boots and a fixed heel will be no fun. I quite like skating on my telekit and have done so for some distance on flat ground, but the weight still makes it hard work.

Then you will not be popular on alpine kit in a xc resort if you trash the tracks etc. nope much more fun to borrow or hire some xc kit for either skate or classic - from past experience it is a lot cheaper than hiring down hill kit.
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Dave Horsley, thanks very much. I am going to give it all a lot of thought!

I am slightly comforted by the opinion of marksavoie that the Les Saisies area is difficult for beginners - but it is so beautiful that I feel guilty not making a bit more use of it. I walk a lot on my own summer/autumn but am not going to head off on my own in snowy conditions, so being able to get more aerobic exercise within the cross country area would be ideal - covering the distance would not be the point, so I wouldn't mind if the skis were a little heavier than the very light traditional gear, if that made them more stable and easier for those scary "out of track" descents (I loved the "in track" descents).
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Dave Horsley

If you are anticipating combining classic and skate on the same tour (quite a common scenario where tracks alternate between cord and tramlines) a good compromise is to wax just the outside half of your wax chambers, so that you are skating on the wax free portion. Adjustable poles really help in this situation as well. Also marking your skis as left and right, to stop switching them when you take them off mid tour.

I am not a big fan of waxless skis, as I really resent having to work harder to go slower on the gliding sections, and the grip in uphill sections does not match a good wax.
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