 Poster: A snowHead
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In Flaine last week my wife was on a moving carpet lift when it stopped suddenly and I mean with a jolt. I was on the lift too and felt it and others gasped in surprise. She felt that something had pulled in a rear thigh but skied on. However it got worse and she had to return to the apartment. End of skiing for her after a day. So, beware, it could happen to you if you're caught unawares. Has this happened to anyone or anything similar?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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i would have thought the stresses and strains put on the legs though normal skiing are far greater than sudden stop of a moving carpet lift ?
sorry to hear it spoilt her day
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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backhojo, it sounds from the OP as though it spoilt her week.  I don't think it's to do with "stress and strain" in the sense of hard but deliberate work for the muscles. Presumably the jerk caught her at a slightly unbalanced moment (!) and she pulled a muscle by making an involuntary movement to keep her balance. Could happen on a bus, or train too, presumably.
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the worst experience I had was a pull cord from my hood getting caught between the bars of a chair lift in la rosiere. I didn't realise until I leant forward to get off and discovered my hood was trapped. I yelled but the lifty was not looking. Fortunately I yanked the hood and it came free by this time I'd missed getting off at the best place and had to jump..fortunately landed standing up on the snow and no harm done. It was very frightening and I have since changed ski Jacket.
Sorry to hear about your wife's injury Billb - how frustrating for her.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think the things are a nightmare. They are in places with little or no gradient and walking/poling/skating is faster and better for skill development. They don't really benefit beginners because all they are doing is prolonging the time before their first adventure with a botton lift - something they need to master anyway. I once passed a queue for one in Beaver Creek. In my opinion it was going slightly downhill as I didn't need to propel myself at all, yet they still queued for it. Ban them.
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There was a case a couple of years ago where a safety guard had been removed on the travelator in Tignes Val Claret and a young girl was dragged through the gap and killed. 
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I don't like those travelators that you get to load onto the chair lift - are folk really incapable of shuffling forward a few feet? I feel quite disorinetated when I go through the gate and come to a standstill but keep moving forward (if you know what I mean)
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| Quote: |
(if you know what I mean)
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nudge, nudge, yes I do.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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holidayloverxx, I bitched about those till someone told me they use them on non-detaching lifts and the belt give you a bit of a run up for fast moving chairs.
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tiffin, that's as maybe but they still make me dizzy and feel a bit sick. TBH in Zell am See we were waiting ages for the chair to come round and there was plenty of time to move forward, so I don't really buy the argument - if only they would put them on the chairs that take the back of your legs off 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| snowymum wrote: |
| the worst experience I had was ... in la rosiere. ... |
It's that same resort again. It'll be the death of us all...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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have you seen the new covered moving carpet lifts in val thorens and les menuires. the ones in VT are very long..great for beginers if the weather is foul.
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You know it makes sense.
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At the top of Sansicario, on the way back to Sestriere, there is a travelator thing. Last time we went, 2 years ago, skis were kept on and there was no problem. This year, a sign said that skis had to be carried. The travelator is steep and it's not a carpet, it's studded metal and pretty lethal in iced-up ski boots. A few yards in, one of our group lost her balance. Scream, crash!  A tangle of 2 bodies/skis/poles etc in the tunnel as the next person collided. Luckily this happened just before I got on ...... They finally got to the edge, ie the non moving bit, with all the gear. Of course it's hard then, to step sideways back on, carrying skis and poles, without sliding and losing balance. One managed it. The other just stood there in shock. I decided if I didn't get on then, I never would, (a bit like standing looking down an icey black, the more you look, the more intimidating it looks ), so I did. God, it was hard to stay on! I passed my friend, still standing on the side and got a little way further then, crash! OMG, I daren't look round or I, too, would be in a heap. I just hoped it was not my friend again.
When I finally got off the damned thing, my friend came up behind me OK. It was someone else who had come a cropper. Both these people weren't beginners; they had been skiing for years  . I, along with the others, vowed I'd never go on it again but 2 days later I skied with another group and of course, we ended up there. No problems this time though. It just didn't seem so slippy. But I did notice that quite a lot of people were ignoring the notice and going up with skis on. This seemed a lot easier/safer so why had someone decided that it was not 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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pam w, I think that's exactly what happened. Both my son and I were fine. But, as you say, it could happen on a bus or train. I've a friend who did his back in reaching down for a shopping bag or some such. And, yep, it spoilt her week, so with having a frozen shoulder last year, that's two years missed. So it goes, especially as you get older, it seems.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| backhojo wrote: |
i would have thought the stresses and strains put on the legs though normal skiing are far greater than sudden stop of a moving carpet lift ?
sorry to hear it spoilt her day |
I know of two people who sustained ACL injuries ina stationary fall - i.e. they were standing still on lost their balance, tried to recover and ended up badly injured. I know of another person who slipped getting of a chair lift and also damaged her ACL at low speed, so I think a sudden jolt on a moving carpet could potentially be quite nasty too. Regardless of your speed you are still clamped to 2 long heavy levers and an unexpected movement, especially if you are slightly off balance, can be pretty nasty.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| TBH in Zell am See we were waiting ages for the chair to come round and there was plenty of time to move forward, so I don't really buy the argument - if only they would put them on the chairs that take the back of your legs off |
I think the idea is that everyone gets delivered to the end mat in a nice line, ready to be collected. No beginner boarders trying to skate (shouldn't be on the lift if they can't), no newby skiers poling everyone to get in line.
In Tignes in Jan I nearly had an accident getting on the Marmottes lift. The belt was running too fast and propelled me forward faster than the chair in front was moving. I hit the chair and was getting dragged under the chair so I had to grab the chair and take my weight off the conveyor belt. Lowering myself down as the chair moved off I nearly fell over. Just at this moment, the lifties hit the big red button.
I am certain these belts should be timed with the gates opening so the chair collects you whilst you are moving forward on them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| I think the things are a nightmare. They are in places with little or no gradient and walking/poling/skating is faster and better for skill development. They don't really benefit beginners because all they are doing is prolonging the time before their first adventure with a botton lift - something they need to master anyway. I once passed a queue for one in Beaver Creek. In my opinion it was going slightly downhill as I didn't need to propel myself at all, yet they still queued for it. Ban them. |
Most of the time they're for young kids learning. Trust me, they're a helluva a lot easier than trying to get 8 4/5 year old kids to walk/skate/pole up even a gentle incline.
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clarky999, I managed to teach kids before lazy-boy carpets were invented. No probs. And you can stick your smiley (another short cut for the lazy) right where it hurts.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| tiffin wrote: |
| holidayloverxx, I bitched about those till someone told me they use them on non-detaching lifts and the belt give you a bit of a run up for fast moving chairs. |
Someone with more knowledge might correct me, but I think you've got cause and effect the wrong way round. Ie the put the conveyor belts in to get people to the take-off point quicker and more consistently, therefore the time gap between lifts can be shorter and they can ramp up the cable speed. Easier and cheaper than upgrading the whole lift.
I've never had an issue with them myself, see it as no different to getting on an escalator or a moving walkway at the airport.
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| Steve84 wrote: |
| tiffin wrote: |
| holidayloverxx, I bitched about those till someone told me they use them on non-detaching lifts and the belt give you a bit of a run up for fast moving chairs. |
Someone with more knowledge might correct me, but I think you've got cause and effect the wrong way round. Ie the put the conveyor belts in to get people to the take-off point quicker and more consistently, therefore the time gap between lifts can be shorter and they can ramp up the cable speed. Easier and cheaper than upgrading the whole lift.
I've never had an issue with them myself, see it as no different to getting on an escalator or a moving walkway at the airport. |
There are two types of magic carpets with chairs, the oldest is as where you have a fixed grip chair and a carpet that increases your speed to the speed of the chair. The more modern is a carpet that moves you to the (stationary) pickup point of a detachable chair, presumably as the earlier post pointed out to allow some faffing and aligning time ... agree it never seems to work that way.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| clarky999, I managed to teach kids before lazy-boy carpets were invented. No probs. And you can stick your smiley (another short cut for the lazy) right where it hurts. |
Chill you beans, it's only the internet
If you post something so vehement about a useful and harmless piece of equipment, expect some sarcasm. If you have had to teach a group of young beginner kids, you'll be well aware how much easier a magic carpet makes life, instead of having to carry all their skis/drag them along all the time. Progression dude, roll with it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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clarky999, see, there you go again with the patronising rolling-eyes smiley instead of maybe using some of that amazing sarcasm you seem to think you have in spades. You're teaching kids to do what? Stand on a moving carpet to make your life easier or their skills better? Getting up hill is a skill, period. Motor skills learned helps 'em on the way down again too and manouevering at the bottom. For something that's meant to be a sport the motorised shag-pile is regressive... Dude.
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No dude, I can't be bothered thinking up witty replies to a really pointless argument, and the patronising smiley sums up my feelings well enough.
You might also consider that a magic carpet makes life much easier for the kids too though, it makes their limited and expensive lesson time more about enjoying themselves and learning to ski rather than exhausting themselves carying their skis around/walking uphill. Remember skiing's about fun. Pretty obvious really that using machines to minimise human effort = progression. That's why we have chairlifts and draglifts and gondolas instead of skinning everywhere, planes to get us around instead of driving/walking/riding a horse... etc.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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clarky999, kids on Stannah Stairlifts on the nursery slope would work too. The next evolutionary step may be back towards the mud fish. As luck would have it, most places survive without the furry conveyor belt. Kids still learn to ski, instructors still know it has to be fun. They learn side step, shuffling around, herringbone, rope tow and the button earlier... cos they have to. Exhausted kids? Great.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Most resorts that I've been to have used a magic carpet for kids, and it works well IME. All those schools aren't wrong. Exhausted kids after a lesson? Great. Exhausted kids halfway through? Missed opportunity. Same reason why we had a tractor pulling a 'train' in St Anton to take the kids over to the Nasserein learning area, there a more productive ways of expending energy than walking. Magic carpet = good progression onto rope tows etc too, getting used to being moved around.
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Bode Swiller, you clearly have absolutely no idea about instructing kids. The demand on an instructor doing their job properly, plus the amount it helps the kids enjoy their day and progress at downhill (you know, the thing we take chairlifts for) skiing makes it an obvious choice. May as well demand they work in the pit 8 days a week and walk to it uphill both ways Plus, have you seen how hard it is for beginner snowboarders before you add in hiking?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The particular carpet lift in question has replaced both a beginner poma and a rope tow (which was dire) so is heavily used as it is the only means of access up, unless you're capable of a comparatively difficult red link (which I am). In this case my OH hadn't skied for two years and it was the first lift she'd been on so she was probably a little tense which wouldn't have helped. HOWEVER, the average user of this lift might be exremely tense and susceptible to a strain in the case of a sudden stop / start. The stopping should be more progressive IMV. I appreciate that in a real emergency it needs to stop pretty quickly, but as I said in my OP it was a jolt that everyone felt. Not fit for purpose in a H&S context, as related to the average expected user.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| billb wrote: |
| In Flaine last week my wife was on a moving carpet lift when it stopped suddenly and I mean with a jolt. I was on the lift too and felt it and others gasped in surprise. She felt that something had pulled in a rear thigh but skied on. However it got worse and she had to return to the apartment. Has this happened to anyone or anything similar? |
Yes and I got awarded £25,000 in damages. Why don't YOU call claimsdirect and see what your entitled to, remember where there's blame there's a claim!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Magic carpets are for learners and the lazy. They often stop with a jolt because somebody stupid (usually an adult) jams their poles in when they are getting off. This happened on numerous occasions in Crans Montana last year, causing pile ups... Not funny...
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FAQ
Yes it was the wrong kind of chairlift, lifty asleep, resort too cold and windy and I was entirely blameless!!! 
