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Skiing Europe/Chris Reynard - Children's ski holiday left in ruins.

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Basoid, sorry I dont

Page 16 of the main paper for those wanting a look
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Shimmy Alcott, can you give a (very) brief synopsis? Ie is it just (welcome) publicity - or does it write about anybody actually taking legal action, rather than just protesting.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Chris Bish wrote:

Apologies to the Times if this is breaching copyright. Please remove if this is the case.

Mod: yes, it's breaching copyright and is far beyond a small quote for "fair use", hence removing it
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I think most of the above information is already elsewhere in the previous posts, interesting comment from Reynard though, His ban was not thrown out on appeal it was reduced from 10 years to 5 and a half, not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.
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Currently in Whistler so not seen the paper, did this appear in the main paper or travel section as a few on here mailed the travel sector pointing them to this thread. Good result Laughing
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Total respect to the thoroughly disappointed kids at Mount Grace School that were cheated out of their 2011 Ski Holiday this week.

They have had their souvenir sweatshirt (Hoodies) With Ski Trip, Switzerland 2011 re done, with a crossing out of

Switzerland 2011 and the addition of 'We didn't go on the'

I don't know whether to laugh or cry?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
leedsunited, it was in the main paper

Chris said something along the lines of "the schools didnt need to cancel, we never pay the hotel bills till after departure anyway"

It didnt mention about Chris turning up at a school saying there was no accomm or transport booked and he had no money to do so
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Gillian, absoloutely brilliant. Are you from the school? You should get a picture of them all and post it up here.
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Ok, a synopsit

- hundreds of children to miss out on their ski trips as accommodation could not be guaranteed for them
- trips had to be cancelled last minute
- Co. run by Chris Reynard, who owns a £1m house
- Chris was a share holder in co. fined £60k for corporate manslaughter after 4 pupils died canoeing in Lyme Bay in 1993
- Chris later exposed for falseley claiming to be a ski instructor
- later banned for 10 yrs from being a director, after misusing funds, failing to pay income tax and claiming £100k in fees as his co. went bust leaving many children without ski holidays
- Civil suits pending and TTrading Standards now investigating
- details of Moel Brace with quote from the head
- details of Purbeck School and quote from head
- details of St Helens school, had to re-book with another co. Lost £12k deposits.
- details of Tavistock College with quote from Chair of Governors
- Devon County Council and Trading Standards have begun a joint investigation
- Reynard denied the co. had failed to organise the trips correctly.
- on his ban as director "this was largely thrown out on appeal. An expert witness said there was no case to answer"
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Shimmy Alcott, Many thanks for the update, where is the fraud squad in all of this?
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Quote:

where is the fraud squad in all of this?


A lad I worked with at half term has reported them to Devon Police's Fraud Squad according to a group email he sent around on Saturday. I've kind of given up any hope of being paid for the 34 hours teaching I did, I just want this idiot (CR) stopped and preferably put behind bars. I started teaching so I could give kids the same experience I had when I was 14 (28 years ago), a life changing experience. It seems CR's motivation is the green folding stuff...............I'm soooo angry!!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Shimmy Alcott, neat. Thanks.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Shimmy Alcott.....Here it is!

MG Sweatshirt
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
hi, our school was due to leave for Austria on 8th April and obviously this didn't happen. Therefore could anyone please confirm if their schools have given refunds or set dates for refunds. As our school seems to want to hold out on us to see what happens to skiing Europe, with regards to insolvency. We would appreciate any help that's available, as our school seems happy to be keeping us in the dark, which they do say is for legal reasons, but as I know other schools and head teachers are keeping parents and students informed of proceedings, feel We are being badly let down and could do with any assistance that is available.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I did eventually get a refund for the ferry ticket for 57 people, 2 drivers and a coach i had to put on my credit card last year when the ferry company went on strike and skiing europe would not do anything that was however last year when he was trying to keep me sweet for this years trip with my school. however (thankfully) i went with a different company this year (so far so good, we too went to austria). I have total sympathy with you, and in your schools defence we would probably be in the same situation had it not been for that incident last year, we had been with SE for years as a school, but as party leader their lack of help really pi$$ed me off! I think your school is probably not wanting to run the risk of anything it says to you jeopardising claiming the money back, and without a solicitor going through every statement i think that is a good call.

I wish you luck and keep us updated, but dont let this put you off, its such a great experience for the pupils and they grow as a person so much from trips like this, its why i do it!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
BREAKING NEWS ...............................
Husband called the SE office this morning chasing my wages & expenses for the February 2011 trip. One of the staff told him that they had all been made redundant this morning, CR has unavailable to speak to my husband (as per his wife as called the house too & the office)
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Sarah W, its so sad for so many that I cant even raise a smile Sad

Sad thing is, he's such a slippery snake will he start up again somehow?

I really wish his name was in the thread title so this has a chance of surfacing on Google searches in the future...is there any way we can do this Mods?



Togger,
Quote:

dont let this put you off, its such a great experience for the pupils and they grow as a person so much from trips like this


My family couldnt afford a foreign holiday, never mind a ski hol. My first time abroad was with the school ski trip - such a fantastic and rewarding experience. Cant believe this bastwerd has denied so many the same opportunity.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Skiing Europe has had a terrible rep for years and years. Main reason they kept going was that teachers got full week free "inspection" trip holidays outside the school trips they were on with the kids...
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Shimmy Alcott, having his name in the thread title will not affect google searches - that depends on loads of things, including new content added to the thread, the frequency of his name mentioned etc. But if you put in Chris Reynard Skiing Europe this thread is 3rd in a google search Very Happy

Therefore better to keep saying Chris Reynard and Skiing Europe rather than shortening them to CR etc
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
cathy, Laughing ok, thanks for that
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Sarah W wrote:
BREAKING NEWS ...............................
Husband called the SE office this morning chasing my wages & expenses for the February 2011 trip. One of the staff told him that they had all been made redundant this morning, CR has unavailable to speak to my husband (as per his wife as called the house too & the office)


Thanks Sarah W, guess I wont be getting my wages or expenses then. The party leader of the school I taught at half term was aware of all the rumours etc when we were there and said he would try and sort us out if SE went bump. I'm guessing he was just sayiong that to keep us working for the week, lets see if he is as good as his word!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I'm guessing all next weeks Easter trips will be cancelled too then.....this is running into millions!!!!!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
skimottaret wrote:
Skiing Europe has had a terrible rep for years and years. Main reason they kept going was that teachers got full week free "inspection" trip holidays outside the school trips they were on with the kids...


Its all about greed.
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skimottaret wrote:
Skiing Europe has had a terrible rep for years and years. Main reason they kept going was that teachers got full week free "inspection" trip holidays outside the school trips they were on with the kids...


There should be an investigation of the teachers concerned as if that is the basis of the holidays beeing booked there is an absence of integrity
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dan100, not so sure, after all if teachers hadn't been to the locations in advance of their parties and were only then to discover that the accommodation or location didn't meet the requirements wouldn't that also be taken as poor research etc ? Lets not blame the teachers, if Chris Reynard couldn't manage his business properly it's hardly the teachers fault is it ?

I just hope they can prove fraudulent trading, if they can then limited liability will not apply and they can go after the directors personally
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skimottaret, all the school skiing companies offer this. It is essential if you are taking large groups to ensure you know the set up. I used them to review places for the year ahead or if I was taking a particularly large group or a group with some special needs, to evaluate the company's offerings and get any shortcomings revised BEFORE I took my group. I have had my accommodation changed, the ski hire company changed and a couple of times the ski school because I was not happy with the provision I saw on my "Freebie". The requirements of a full risk assessment more or less make it an essential part of the planning and execution of a school trip these days.

How many of you give up your holiday time to work 24/7 for nine days? That is a resounding and deafening silence I hear then!

lightningdan, dan100, there speak the Trittbrett-Fahrers again rolling eyes

If you have never organised a trip for a school group perhaps you should keep your nasty little snide remarks to yourselves. Remember the teachers taking your spoilt little darlings [read brats in some cases] are responsible in many more ways for them than you are when you venture out into the wider world.

This has happened before with Chris Reynard and unless there is some legislation to curb it, it will happen again. I've been involved with school group skiing since the early 1970s - he was viewed with suspicion then, so nothing has changed. In the current economic climate, sometimes the price the students were paying was worth the risk. There have been enough posts here about the cost of some school trips being excessive. You cannot have it both ways you know!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DG Orf

Given that it appears that Skiing Europe Ltd was dormant and most of the contracts were with Reynard trading as Skiing Europe there is no limited liability - so it is possible to go after Reynard's personal assets if he is declared bankrupt. That said my guess is that he will have tried to transfer them elsewhere - but the Court does have the power to revoke such transfers.

As for fraudulent trading this is an offence for sole traders as well as limited companies - and can be punished with up to 10 years imprisonment (see previous links).

The main problem is getting to authorities to take up the case - although I do note that they have been taking a tougher attitude on the level of personal expenses bankrupts are able to claim.
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Dan100

Where is the absence of integrity - in my case the teachers were perfectly honest that they had been on an inspection visit, and given what I now know about Reynard I am glad they did. Perhaps you should have the integrity to check your facts before making such wild accusations.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Samerberg Sue wrote:


lightningdan, dan100, there speak the Trittbrett-Fahrers again rolling eyes

If you have never organised a trip for a school group perhaps you should keep your nasty little snide remarks to yourselves. Remember the teachers taking your spoilt little darlings [read brats in some cases] are responsible in many more ways for them than you are when you venture out into the wider world.

!


Thanks for your reasoned response.

Nice to know someone who used to organise school ski trips has such low respect for the kids.

I would have thought the point of using a company that specialises in school trips would be the fact they knew what they were doing.

I notice many of the companies have financial safeguards in place, something I would want if I was booking a holiday.

Finally, as a forum we are all allowed to have an opinion, whether or not we have done something ourselves previously, so prehaps you could keep your snide remarks to yourself?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Dont let this thread degenerate people....lets keep it focused eh!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
This is too important a thread to sink into the gutter of blaming the teachers. If people want to denigrate teachers please do it on another thread. It looks as if a lot of youngsters are going to lose their school ski trip and their money too. This is what this thread should be about. Let's stick to that please.

snowHead
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Samerberg Sue wrote:

How many of you give up your holiday time to work 24/7 for nine days? That is a resounding and deafening silence I hear then!

[b]lightningdan
, dan100, there speak the Trittbrett-Fahrers again rolling eyes

If you have never organised a trip for a school group perhaps you should keep your nasty little snide remarks to yourselves. Remember the teachers taking your spoilt little darlings [read brats in some cases] are responsible in many more ways for them than you are when you venture out into the wider world.



Dont come that you work 24/7 we all know that is total bolloxs and you are giving up what 9 days of a 13 week holiday allocation, most people on here only get 5 weeks max, wheel out the violin.

Teachers taking our spoilt brats on holiday, is that not your job, maybe you need to find a new vocation or just retire on that over inflated pension.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Stephen101 wrote:
DG Orf

Given that it appears that Skiing Europe Ltd was dormant and most of the contracts were with Reynard trading as Skiing Europe there is no limited liability - so it is possible to go after Reynard's personal assets if he is declared bankrupt. That said my guess is that he will have tried to transfer them elsewhere - but the Court does have the power to revoke such transfers.

As for fraudulent trading this is an offence for sole traders as well as limited companies - and can be punished with up to 10 years imprisonment (see previous links).

The main problem is getting to authorities to take up the case - although I do note that they have been taking a tougher attitude on the level of personal expenses bankrupts are able to claim.


What may work is if all schools that are in the same boat take a class action, this would be easy but they must work together.
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i only pass on the teachers comment as i spoke with a couple of instructors who have worked for them in the past and they all told tales of shambolic admin, terrible organisation for years and years.... and when i asked why do the customers keep coming back and how are they still in business the answer i got was the teachers making the decisions were always kept sweet... heresay and rumour but hey it is the internet.

Samerberg Sue, could be all the companies offer it, it just sounded to me from the comments i got that it was a key reason they kept coming back, could have just been bitchiness...
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Just a question for legal purposes, do these exploratory trips take place during term time or do staff take them in their own time, also are they a legal requirement.

If not a legal requirement then by accepting these trips it may be deemed that staff have been bribed, in my last company this would have been deemed as unethical conduct.

For those that deal with local authority's you will know that staff cannot even accept a diary at Christmas from a supplier.
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Surely a 'site visit' should form part of a good risk assessment?
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Hells Bells wrote:
Surely a 'site visit' should form part of a good risk assessment?


Where do you start and finish with this one, i know a school that are going to South Africa in the summer for cricket, i do not see anybody going out there for a week at the tour operators expense to carry out "risk assesment" my daughters school are going on a trip to the zoo next month i do not see anybody going there to carry out a "risk assesment"

If schools or teachers have accepted free trips from these tour operators that are not a legal requirement then it could be thrown at them by the defence should it all end up in court, also how would the tax man view the trip, if it is not a legal requirement then he will see it as a benefit in kind and would expect it to be declared although i will bet my house that not one person who has accepted these trips has done so!
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It has already been pointed out in this thread that in many instances an inspection visit is a requirement in terms of risk assessment. The myth of teachers having some sort of free jolly by organising ski trips has also been well countered. Looks as if those of us who took time to explain matters were wasting our breath if we just get repetitious teacher bashing.

Keep Reynard as the target and don't forget the staff affected by his failures will be just as gutted as the children.
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ccl, This is not teacher bashing, i am highlighting that people are using the statement of risk assesment, please tell me where it is a legal reuirement, it does not apply anywhere else to my knowledge and just appears to be a convenient statement to cover a multitude of sins.

If this ends up in court and a school has taken a free trip it could be used against them, fact not fiction.
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leedsunited, Durham County Educational Visit policy states that "if the residential accommodation has not been used before, a preliminary visit is strongly recommended. When this is not practical,the group leader should make enquiries to satisfy themselves that the accommodation is suitable for the group", the whole policy is at http://content.durham.gov.uk/PDFRepository/EducationalVisitsPolicy2009.pdf , thanks to my Dad for providing the link (chairman of school governors). Boring, I know.
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