 Poster: A snowHead
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FlyingStantoni, on steeps and the downside of bumps the reason you don't ankle flex esp when near the fall line is that you don't need to. Ankle flexion is a tool. Don't do it if it isn't going to help you achieve something. If you ankle flex in those situations you'll get out of balance. Many racers prefer boots with less forward lean esp on steeps so that they can both press the front of their boots and not get out of balance from having to be too dorsiflexed.
jimmer, indeed, if flowing fast enough I feel it's more about not impeding flow than creating forward movement (unless I have ended up back, which I frequently have)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DB, There is something in such a theory, by which I mean the shorter, stocky chap has a physiology befitting his form. Shorter stronger bones, tighter tendon-al structure and in general, this means less dorsiflexion, on the flip side the taller guy has perhaps a more elastic tendon al structure, allowing the bones to elongate further and thus, has greater dorsiflexion. This is a pretty sure test, but is by no means, 100% failsafe.
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jimmer, I'm not sure anyone is arguing for "no ankle flex" - a few people have decided that's what I'm saying and built a decent straw man to argue against, but obviously you flex your ankle relative to every other joint to allow balance to be maintained. I think the negative with (extra) dorsiflexion at the start of the turn is that it will inhibit pivoting/steering and potentially cause the tails to wash.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DaveC, i am with you to a point but it does depend on equipment choices, terrain etc as to whether or not a fore move to initiate the turn is desirable. For me it usually is.. In terms of degree of for movement and pressure on the shin a good tip i had once was that the amount of pressure against the front of the boot should be a shin "touch" or a shin "press" in other words usually some to keep centre fore but not a whole lot.. Dont want to hang on the front of the boot but the ankle joint is so key to get all the other joints flexing correctly and for me is the start of the chain of movement.
a very good point made by slikedges for us dome based teachers is that the terrain is quite steep for beginners and i am forever seeing people who were advanced too quickly and have very straight locked out outside / downhill ankles and i need to get them to exaggerate the ankle flex and a way of doing that is to press the front of the boot. over flex is easy to take away but no flex is much more prevalent in early stage skiers.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, good point...
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DaveC, Each skier is different, has a different physical body. It's essential to find your own stance and the right stance is when you can feel your body weight as much on your toes and on your heels. Well, keep your body weight on all the length of your feet and you will be stable in every conditions. Easy on greens, blues and red, not as much on blacks! Why? If you want to be right in the middle of your skis at the end of the turn you should increase the pressure on your toes when you initiate your turn. The commitment is almost easy on gentle runs and it's getting difficult in the steepness. Practice and practice and have fun!
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Hmmm interesting thread. Glad to hear that what a lot of people have said agrees with some of my recent skiing experiences. I must be on the right track  I suppose the whole pressing forward thing is just a bad way of trying to say being slightly fore balanced but I can see it is a cue or feeling that is easy to self-check.
I have noticed that in harder snow conditions or skis with less side cut it's quicker to get the edges to "dig in" if you apply pressure on the shovel at the start of the turn. Kind of like to think about it in that the shovel "carves" the groove and the tail follows it hence has to do less digging. Once you've built up some flex you get more of it by moving to the centre.
Slightly new angle on the topic: I noticed that coming out on the tails actually accelerates you, even if it means you can not initiate the next turn as quickly. Is there any truth in this or just my imagination? It sure is fun, felt like I was being lauched 2 feet in the air but was probably more like 2 inches!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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oldscool, Back in days of yore, when I was a lad, racers went into a turn with weight on front of their skis and exited with their weight back, to speed themselves up on the exit. Weren't they called "jet" turns ? I'm thinking in particular of Killy, and others of that era. Took a lot of strength !
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Cant do that so much with modern short skis, you will almost certainly flip back.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Depends on how far back you go! If you move as far inside the turn as you can, then it's going to be nigh on impossible to finish the turn without being to some extent, aft. Not neccessarily a jet turn, you just have to move your skis back under your CoM and continue into the next turn. Wish I could draw in the snow to help illustrate what I mean!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've just read all this and feel blinded by technicalities....!
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You know it makes sense.
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Hurtle, OK, I'll just carry on then...
Nothing to see here 
*creeps out*
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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slikedges, ummm, I question why you wouldn't be flexed in bumps. I find that just at the end of the turn I am rather flexed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Haha, that's what it must have been! Mind you it was before lunch so less likely I was imagining things To be fair I'd just come out of some really heavy crusty pow onto hero snow but carried on skiing the same way (shovels on top before initiating the next turn).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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under a new name, didn't say ankles wouldn't be flexed in bumps, just that they wouldn't be flexed in the fall line. The ankles are dorsiflexed at the point of greatest absorption ("end" of turn?) but then as you turn, your ankles open to press the ski tips down as you extend, don't they? (I'm no expert and definitely not close to your level of bump skiing!) I think that at the point during this that your skis are in the fall line, the ankles would be open.
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slikedges, ah, yes, I'd say you are absolutely spot on. my mis-interpretation 
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