 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all
Was hoping to pick the brains of a few experienced snowheads...
I've been skiing three times now, three consecutive years. I did Verbier this year, and I hit a psychological wall; as soon as I get on to a relatively steep slope - blue/red style steep - my nerve just goes, and with it my technique, and I end up snowploughing it down. I love skiing, I love being in the mountains, but when I get on a steep slope my nerve just goes. Has anyone else had this issue, and dealt with it? if so, how? I love skiing, I want to do more, but this is becoming a problem!
Any advice appreciated....
RustInPeace 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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RustInPeace, welcome to Snowheads. 
Mine will probably just be the first of many posts suggesting you get some good lessons!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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+ more experience
3 weeks is not alot of skiing to have mastered the steep(even blue) stuff
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As above, time. Also if you can get someone to lead you onto a steeper run on a foggy day without you knowing it, you may well find you ski it fine when you can't see the exposure below you. Also lessons.
I've heard it said that ( a little bit) of alcohol can also help you relax more and get over nerves, obviously I would never advocate that though... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Many years ago, I had exactly the same problem and I did stop skiing partly because of it.
Well, now I'm back (sort of) and it's thanks to a few private lessons from a good ski instructor (Gavin, in Tignes, who taught me about edge control) and plenty of practice.
If you can really crack side-slipping with a solid edge-check to stop yourself (both sides), it will really improve your confidence with speed control on steeps. The falling leaf drill at Hemel helped me (but annoyed everyone else). Assuming you don't suffer from vertigo, once you overcome the initial fear of what can go wrong on steeps (a loss of control at high speed leading to an 'inevitable' crash, broken back, twisted leg, collision with a skier/tree/yeti???) by knowing how to slow/stop, it will be just a question of practice.
Also, going with company helped me too. I recall a red run I chickened out of and took the easy blue option. Firstly, i thought it was a black (it looked steep from the top) and i was on my own at the time. The very next day, i was with 6 pals who all wanted to "cane this red" and i followed them down, carefully (refer above)! I must have repeated that red run at least 10 times afterwards, each time increasing the length of my turns. Now I love red runs because, for me, they present a good combination of a technical challenge and just simple enjoyment (depending on my mood at the time).
Now, having said all that; I'm still intimidated by steep (icy) blacks and moguls...but that's my goal for next season.
I hope this helps.
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ALQ, Big YAY for Gavin.
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++++++ for Gavin - but there are loads of other great instructors out there. Depending on the skier, and the nature of the problem, just having "more time on snow" doesn't necessarily make much difference and can consolidate some very bad habits. Getting a mate to help is not always the best idea, either. You do see a lot of people, when you sit on a chairlift, slithering round zig-zagging down slopes which are beyond them, following mates who are just zig-zagging more confidently but still basically very poor skiers.
How many, and what sort of, lessons have you had, RustInPeace? Lots of people give up lessons far too soon, especially if they've had a poor experience in group lessons (which can be terrific, or fairly hopeless).
Do you live near one of the Snowdomes?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I found Verbier pretty intimidating when I was learning to ski as it is pretty steep. I would recommend a couple of weeks at resorts labelled "good for intermediate" - like La Plagne or 3Vs where there are plenty of wide blues and reds to build your confidence. As above, a good instructor is essential. One of my best lessons ever was in Val D when I was quite nervous of ice. After ensuring I had the technique, the instructor spent the rest of the 2 hour lesson making me ski OK increasing my speed on each run. By the end of the lesson my confidence was back.
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Damien
Damien
Guest
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DB, Stroh = Vomit inducing.  You'll be so busy throwing up after drinking this stuff, you'll forget about being afraid.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Get more lessons. Every morning for a week for two hours with nobody else.
Get friends who are seriously better skiers and follow them.
Get more practice.
No quick and easy solution, but IMVHO I think that somebody who still snowploughs after three long weeks needs to go back to the start. I've done five weeks' skiing, and I haven't snowploughed a turn since about day three/four, and whilst I'm fit, I'm no nutter - far from it.
Snowploughing is darned hard work; skiing is supposed to be easy.
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DB, Stroh, ah that takes me back a few years, used to share a place with a guy from Austria who always had a couple of bottles about the place.
regular nightcap after a heavy night out.......
And I just can't understand why i'm now having memory problems, need glasses and think that meths is a nice aperitif 
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You know it makes sense.
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Practice is king.
The more you ski, the better you get.
A professional skiracer will have done atleast 10,000 hours on snow.
You have probably done about 100 hours.
Never do 1-week ski vacations. They are not long enough to rise up the experience-curve.
Always go for atleast 2 weeks at a time.
While there, get 1-on-1 lessons with an instructor.
Repeat for rest of life.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm sure it is a technique issue rather than a mental issue. A lot of people that stick to blues cannot properly control their speed on steeper slopes and that is where the fear comes from.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There is a big vicious circle, as you shy away from the hill, you lean back, as you lean back, your weight moves back over the tails and the skis speed up, scaring you even more, making you more nervous as you speed up and lose control...
It's counter-intuitive but you have to face your fears and face down the hill and get the weight forward on the skis and it gets easier...
And don't worry about snowploughing, sometimes it's the only way, and better to be safe than sorry and just another technique to use...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| James the Last wrote: |
No quick and easy solution, but IMVHO I think that somebody who still snowploughs after three long weeks needs to go back to the start. I've done five weeks' skiing, and I haven't snowploughed a turn since about day three/four, and whilst I'm fit, I'm no nutter - far from it.
Snowploughing is darned hard work; skiing is supposed to be easy. |
Don't forget how to do it. One day you may need it in a tight spot.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I found stopping at the top of a steep pitch was the root of this when I was just starting. So I just stopped doing it. Put a turn in on the crest but don't stop and look at the slope; You'll talk yourself out of it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Are you afraid that if you fall you might go on sliding down the hill a long way? If so you could get an instructor to teach you how to stop (either with skis on or off). Unless it is icy you can stop yourself on a 45º slope which is half as steep again as almost any black run.
Certainly the key to skiing steeper slopes is to make sure you keep your weight forward and to lean out. That way you can control your skis and they won't run away with you.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| .... Never do 1-week ski vacations. They are not long enough to rise up the experience-curve. |
And the evidence to support this fact/theory/hypothesis/load of Horlicks is ......?
| Whitegold wrote: |
| While there, get 1-on-1 lessons with an instructor. |
And I wonder how many of the instructors you might get built up their experience on 1 week vacations and courses. 
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| Quote: |
There is a big vicious circle, as you shy away from the hill, you lean back, as you lean back, your weight moves back over the tails and the skis speed up, scaring you even more, making you more nervous as you speed up and lose control...
It's counter-intuitive but you have to face your fears and face down the hill and get the weight forward on the skis and it gets easier...
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Absolutely right, but for many people, it takes a skilled instructor to get them doing that, especially if they've started to ingrain bad habits.
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ccl, I actually agree (a little) with Whitegold on this one 
I think that if you were a novice and wanted to improve your skiing and you could afford to take 2 x 1week holidays per year, you would develop more quickly if you actually took a 1 x 2 week holiday instead.
In my view, most novice 1 week a year skiers spend the first two days of their 6 day holiday getting to where they were last year, the next two days stiff from the first two days, and really only make substantial progress in their last two days. If they were able to continue skiing for another 7 days at this point, they would have the fitness, acclimatisation and skills to make substantial progress (all IMHO of course)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| Snowploughing is darned hard work; skiing is supposed to be easy. |
Don't forget how to do it. One day you may need it in a tight spot.[/quote]
Thank you, point noted and agreed with, but that's a slightly different point...
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Get 1 to 1 lesson(s) just following their turn shapes it is amazing what you learn. You also tend to be concentrating so much on them and keeping them in sight that you don,t notice the steepness of the hill.
Note it never looks as steep from the bottom 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Never do 1-week ski vacations. They are not long enough to rise up the experience-curve.
Always go for atleast 2 weeks at a time. |
The first time I skied for longer than 6 days at a time was when I passed my Level 2 ski instructor exam.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Jake43 wrote: |
| Note it never looks as steep from the bottom |
I'm not sure about that. Sometimes I look back at a slope and think "f*$!, did I ski that, how good am I?" A trick of the light, I suspect, but steep slopes can look like near-vertical walls, viewed full on from say 50-100 yards.
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I'm with you laundryman.
But I'd say they look just as steep from the top. The entry into a run can be downright scary - generally the corrie back wall is the steepest part. And ineviably easier if you're following somebody.
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You know it makes sense.
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James the Last, agreed. Annoyingly, they look like nothing viewed through the camera of the guy standing at the side of the pitch!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Two package holidays each of one week gives 12 days of skiing and four days of travel misery.
One package holidays lasting two weeks gives 13 days of skiing and reduces the travel misery to two days.
I prefer two week holidays.
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Poster: A snowHead
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These days, I don't think it's worth the drive down for less than 4 weeks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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RustInPeace, forget skiing. Try SNOWBLADING instead. I guarantee you'll love it.
In the experience of my extended skiing fraternity, snowblading has huge advantages for beginners & low intermediates. They make turning and controlling on steep pistes an absolute breeze. At least promise me you'll hire some for a day just to give it a go. I've noticed that there comes a point after a few weeks of "blading" where one of these things will happen:
1. You will reach a speed and confidence where snowblades won't satisfy you (or stop you). At that point you can return to regular skis which you will by then be able to handle with ease.
2. You will fall in love the Snowblades and never see the point of using big planks ever again (Mrs Anton falls into this category)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Some really useful tips here, thanks guys!
James The Last - - I rarely if ever plough, *unless* I panic, 'cos as you say it's exhausting. I'm trying to get out of the mindset where I do panic, and revert to safety mode.
AntonAusTirol - very interesting, hadn't even considered snowblades, I'll look into that...
pam_w - you're right there, fortunately getting forward in the skis is not the problem.
ALQ - really like that idea, I'm going to try that. Really practical tip, thanks mate.
Jo225 - I think that's a really good point - as you say, if I just pile ahead there's less to worry!
Anyway, I'm glad to know I'm not alone. I really enjoy skiing, I want to get over this. And I will!
RustInPeace
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We a have been Club Med for the last two seasons and the ski school is all day for five days. I thought this year I would take at least two days without the class to explore on my own. I didn't do this because I had a great instructor who really took an interest in the class and also I realised that I ski so much more cautiously and less adventurously when on my own. At the end of each session I was knackered and I probably would not have got to that happy state if I had been skiing solo.
My wife who was on her second holiday made huge strides forward and totally conquered her nervousness. She also had a fine instructor. Our resort this year was Serre Chevalier.
I am not much of a skier myself to be giving advice but here's some anyway: Slightly exaggerate your ability when choosing what group you will join at ski school. You may find the extra speed helps you find your groove more quickly. You can always bust yourself back down a class after morning one.
Do you go on your own or with the family? If solo Club Med have never charged a single supplement for my daughters private room. Fantastic value in my opinion.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mrs M occassionaly used to be like this and it really pi$$ed me off... she finally overcame her fear by practice, practice, practice and a friendly ski instructor (mind you helped that we lived in resort)
Anyway, her issue would be that she'd look at the edge of the piste and think to herself "I can't turn before there.... what happens if don't turn before there.... I need to turn.. OMG can I turn..... blah blah blah" she'd get the end edge of the piste and lo and behold found she hadn't turned and stop.... followed by the snow plough of shame .
A couple of the tricks the instructor used were;
> to get her to stop looking where she was actually skiing (ie toward the piste markers) but where she wanted to ski (ie down the piste)
> made her ski slalom style round them.
His rationale was #1 generally go where you're looking there (like if you look at a tree you're probably going to hit it) and #2 if she did get to the edge of the piste what was the problem?
All in all seemed to work for her but as I say we were living in resort all season..... next hurdle moguls!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Just scrolled to the bottom of the thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned. Get some lessons in and learn to pole plant.
I'm usually brimming with confidence on any bit of terrain, but previously speed was a concern on very steep reds and some blacks. This was down to my technique I was adopting back then, just parallel skidding really (hard work on the legs and doesn't do a good enough job of keeping your speed down I found). Anyway, after several lessons (thanks Rob/Scott) I am now able to edge better than before and pole plant well enough that I can use it on the slopes effectively (still need to improve, but getting there).
Speed in check, feeling in complete control, with enough pace to keep things exciting. If you are feeling all that there should be no reason to be nervous 
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| Quote: |
Get some lessons in
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c0Ka|Ne, Lots of us suggested this, but it doesn't appear the OP wants to take any lessons.
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| pam w wrote: |
| c0Ka|Ne, Lots of us suggested this, but it doesn't appear the OP wants to take any lessons. |
Yeah, well lessons are expensive, innit.
(But cheaper than the rest of the holiday.)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Get some lessons in
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c0Ka|Ne, Lots of us suggested this, but it doesn't appear the OP wants to take any lessons. |
rustinpeace has only posted 2 times and didn't say having lessons was out
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This is all very well but it complicates matters. Try shutting your eyes and shouting very loudly so that people know you are there!
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FAQ
