 Poster: A snowHead
|
An unlukcy member of party had top-of-the-range but not brand new skis stolen.
Ski shop charged for a brand new pair (insurance only covering first €450). The contract stated that the hirer indemnified the ski shop for the "market value" of the skis - not the replacement cost.
Has anybody any experience of arguing that the market value of a set of stolen skis is exactly that. (Sadly I wasn't there when the charge/payment was made, otherwise I'd have argued very strongly.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Market value is exactly that - the price they would fetch in a free market. Most used skis start at 50% of RRP once they've been used a couple of weeks. Also watch for shops charging full RRP rather than repacement cost to them.
However if your mate has been a mug and let it go at that then he/she's probably got an uphill battle to extract the cash from them again unless he can somehow get a credit card chargeback on basis he/she was under duress etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
As fatbob says, it is a scam. The ski shop only paid trade in the first place (at least a 35% markup) plus if the skis have been used the value to the ski shop is less than that price.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Quite.
Has anybody any experience of arguing that the market value of a set of stolen skis is exactly that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Damien
Damien
Guest
|
|
Can said shop be named? Would like to avoid it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I would think that market value is what the skis would fetch in the condition that they were being used in. Replacement value should in theory be what it would cost to replace them with another pair in similar condition. New for old is replacment of a used set with a new set IMV.
When you hear then talking values on the Antiques Roadshow those are the sorts of terms they go on about, and it's also what car insurers seem to apply as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It's argue the contract on hire or agree... and buy a lock.
Most people treat hire skis as not their worry and just throw them in the pile outside the loud bar. The shops run a scam but you can understand why and see why they get away with it.
Most shops offer theft insurance for a couple of Euros a day. If you don't have a lock, it's money well spent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The other scam is to charge you for the new price of a pair of skis when you blow the edge on one ski. Normally the shop can get a single ski from the supplier, unless they are last years skis in which case they've probably paid back their cost. If they are last year's skis the edges have probably been ground a couple of times which will have weakened them and they may already have broken edges when you hire them... the edges on my atomics have a number of fissures.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
Most shops offer theft insurance for a couple of Euros a day.
|
The OP said that insurance only covered up to 450 euros - which insurance, I wonder? I agree, I always suggest people DO take that extra insurance in the shop - well worth it for the peace of mind.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I might bring this thread to mind the next time there arises a discussion re: to buy or hire. At least if you buy you won't be scammed by the hire shops it seems!! That said I imagine places that scam folks are in the minority or the industry wouldn't survive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
James the Last, You haven't mentioned where this happened. The law in France is in practice very different from the UK and any expectations that logic or reason will apply are best left at Dover or the airport terminal in left luggage. The suggestion from fatbob, that an intelligent conversation with the card company ensues is a good one, arguing that you (mate) is happy to pay but not to see the shop profit from his misfortune. That argument has worked successfully in the UK. Paying a French lawyer for instance would cost 200-250 just to write a letter so mediation is the way forward.
BTWJames the Last, well done for participating in your own thread: I'm bored with OP's who ask and then never comment again in the topic, nor offer an insight what happened or even a small thank you if an idea helped! Hope you mate gets sorted.
Oh, on the off-chance it's worth naming the shop/location, not for any vindictive repercussions but that a SnowHead may have an especially good relationship with the shop owner and could perhaps oil the wheels and help with some well chosen words? I'd certainly do that in Samoens.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
It was in Morillon, actually. Pascal Sports. The skis disappeared from outside the telecabine at Morillon 1100.
I know the law (or at least logic) is different in France. Though... the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts legislation in UK law derives from European law so is probably the same. In the UK it would probably be an unfair term to require a consumer to replace a stolen item at cost rather than market value.
Sadly my friend (1) didn't speak French (2) didn't think of arguing.
Booking was through alpinresorts.com with a 50% discount from list price. Their indemnity against theft/damage is limited to market value of up to €450. My assessment was that the MV of a pair of second hand skis would not exceed €450; I have no doubt that I am correct. Moreover I'd paid with paypal so they would have no hope of stealing additional money from a credit card.
I would always buy insurance as French hire shops are - apparently - notorious for charging for damage that was already there or for stealing back their own skis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Normally I would dismiss this kind of thread as anglo french misunderstandings but there are lots of these kind of stories on skipass. Part of the raison d'etre of ski republic was to stamp out the ski hire mafia.
However a lot of businesses seem to operate outside the law. SFR (telephone operator is one). There is a new law which says you can cancel your phone contract after 4 months, however SFR just ignore this law unless you actually go to the effort of getting a lawyer onto them.
The SNCF are the same, a bunch of crooked shysters.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| James the Last wrote: |
Booking was through alpinresorts.com with a 50% discount from list price. Their indemnity against theft/damage is limited to market value of up to €450. My assessment was that the MV of a pair of second hand skis would not exceed €450; I have no doubt that I am correct. Moreover I'd paid with paypal so they would have no hope of stealing additional money from a credit card.
I would always buy insurance as French hire shops are - apparently - notorious for charging for damage that was already there or for stealing back their own skis. |
That is very underhand and I would agree that €450 would cover the shop's replacement costs. Having already paid the rental and then being charged retail for new skis, the shop did very nicely out of this. Even paying full retail, the rental costs should have been deducted as the transaction was now one of sale, rather than rental.
Your mate should have a word with his card company and say he was forced to pay under duress, with no option of getting an independent valuation of what the market value was.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
James the Last, bar shaker, Morillon - close, but not my village! There are howver a few snowheads based there most seasons..... or if they used one of the indie ski schools such as Zig-Zag then they would probably have a word.
As you say, the ski shop insurance should cover the cost of the skis hired!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| davidof wrote: |
Part of the raison d'etre of ski republic was to stamp out the ski hire mafia.
The SNCF are the same, a bunch of crooked shysters. |
So what does Ski Republic's site say:
Firstly it offers "50%" discounts.
Secondly it tells you exactly how much you have to pay for the loss of a pair of battered skis: "warning! In case of breakage or theft without insurance You will be asked for skis and snowboard:- Sports 400 €; Performance 600 €"
Sounds as though Ski Republic are also a bunch of crooked shysters.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
