Poster: A snowHead
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I found this video on a Polish news website. The girl ended up in a hospital with a broken leg.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 6-02-11 9:36; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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They mentioned broken leg. Looks bad.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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What a complete knob
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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knobs like that should be taken to one side and have their board or ski inserted in the appropriate orrifice......that'll slow them down!!
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Sleipnir, guy was totally oblivious and out of control.
Hope she heals well and that she makes it back to the slopes.
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kevindonkleywood wrote: |
the guy was totally oblivious and out of control. |
Oh come on !!
The girl skier was obviously crossing back across the piste awkwardly and slowing down under that little riser was her mistake. She should've looked uphill and anticipated that much better and faster skiers and boarders would be about on that expert slope and that they wouldn't expect to see noobs like her in the middle of the piste. The poor fella had absolutely nowhere to go and it also probably ruined the chance for getting his best GPS top speed of the day.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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That video would make good evidence in court - I hope her insurance company used it. (I hope she was insured! and if not he was)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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moffatross, you beat me to it - nice "interthread irony" I have to say and glad I got it!
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You know it makes sense.
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I just don't think he way paying attention - she was in control, in essence, until he hit her, so was he, but he was just not paying attention IMV. There for the grace of god go many I think. Inc. the nutter with the board that hit me from behind in a very similar situation in Les Arcs. Again I think just not paying attention. I was with an obviously dressed instructor at the time (me in a bright red jacket), practising one legged skiing on a very quiet blue run and was taken out in the same way by a boarder from behind on a perfectly OK bit of piste with no rise or anything in the way. As the instructor pointed out to the chap I had 15 metres of clear piste to one side of me and 25+ to the other and he still couldn't miss me. I was in a very similar situation to the lass in the video, but luckier than her in that I got away with just a bruise for my trouble, but I was hit with a fair degree of force directly from behind - easily enough to spring my bindings. I didn't quite clout him in front of the instructor, but even though he didn't speak any English I think he is now scared of English women!! Esp. when I didn't back down after his first retort and gave him another earful. OK, I can laugh about it now, but if you are going to ski or board or whatever on a slope surely the first rule is to pay attention to your surroundings vs. the manner in which you are progressing down the slope?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Quote: |
I'm pretty sure he's joking
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Nice to hear, so I can chill down a little but I have seen this in Spain once, when a 4 years old girl was hited of a 90kg spanish man, and he was saying to the parents to take better care about their kids, beacause they was not in the beginner area,, but he was taken of police, and that was lucky for him, beacause their was a mob waiting for him, the girl was away with a helicopter to hospital in Sevilla, she was very bad hurt, and this was happens in Sierra Nevada,
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Poster: A snowHead
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If you nick your dad's 750cc motorbike and ride it at 30mph through your school playground to impress your mates and run a kid over, is that an accident?
This looks like a beginner snowboarder who's still familiar with the nursery slopes, but has failed to realise their 'need for speed' has disqualified them and represents a lethal danger to others. You do not ski at speed through nursery slopes - however much a beginner you are, however skilful you think you are.
It is one of the first rules skiers & boarders should be taught: do not ski at speed through nursery slopes - reduce speed according to the conditions and down-slope skiers.
Every down slope skier must be treated as if they are using every trick in the book to lull you into complacency while they prepare for their 'insurance scam' manoeuvre to suddenly whiz into your path in such a way that you cannot stop or avoid them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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crosbie, You are right, but I am always amazed at how beginners slopes are ignored by those using them as a through route to get elsewhere. There were a couple of areas in Les Arcs that were def. begineers areas - Chantel in paritcular is clearly marked as such and requires a dodge through bright orange signs warning folks to access it. We used it every day to get to our appt. We always made a point of stopping and reminding the Minimum's of the fact it was a beginners area and that they should pass novices very wide, be prepared for unexpected manoeuvres from them, look out for people stopped in the middle of the piste and ski at pace suitable for those around them.
However, that did not stop other folks whizzing past us who had clearly not thought the same things and it was evident from the chair lift above, that many folks treated the piste no differently to any other. It's like horses and water troughs, you can put up all the signs and warnings you like, but without buy-in from users and/or enforcement there are still a significant number who couldn't care two hoots about such things. I have my doubts that this will ever change.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum, maybe they can create a rule that says "Any non-beginner who is involved in a significant collision with a beginner (beginner-pass holders or under tuition) in a beginner/debutante area is automatically at fault for the collision (whether upslope or not) and will have lift pass immediately confiscated - return subject to appeal"? Then non-beginners might treat beginner areas with a little more caution.
Trouble is, collisions are also as in this case likely between beginners getting the knack of speed and other beginners moving from snow plough to parallel turn. It's a bit like young teenagers riding bicycles at speed on pavements having been encouraged to do so as a much younger/slower beginner.
For weeding reckless learner skiers/boarders out of nursery slopes it may be necessary for wardens to patrol the areas and give the likes of such a good bollocking (and a 3 hour pass confiscation - if in possession of such - they can walk up).
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crosbie wrote: |
Megamum, maybe they can create a rule that says "Any non-beginner who is involved in a significant collision with a beginner (beginner-pass holders or under tuition) in a beginner/debutante area is automatically at fault for the collision (whether upslope or not) and will have lift pass immediately confiscated - return subject to appeal"? Then non-beginners might treat beginner areas with a little more caution.
Trouble is, collisions are also as in this case likely between beginners getting the knack of speed and other beginners moving from snow plough to parallel turn. It's a bit like young teenagers riding bicycles at speed on pavements having been encouraged to do so as a much younger/slower beginner.
For weeding reckless learner skiers/boarders out of nursery slopes it may be necessary for wardens to patrol the areas and give the likes of such a good bollocking (and a 3 hour pass confiscation - if in possession of such - they can walk up). |
define beginner
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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mugen, a 'beginner' is someone who holds a beginner lift-pass (reduced areas) or is booked into a lesson with an approved ski school, and is in a an area reserved for beginners or clearly identified as a beginner area, and has not just entered the area from an area only accessible via a lift not available on a beginner lift pass (except if accompanied by a ski school instructor).
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crosbie wrote: |
mugen, a 'beginner' is someone who holds a beginner lift-pass (reduced areas) or is booked into a lesson with an approved ski school, and is in a an area reserved for beginners or clearly identified as a beginner area, and has not just entered the area from an area only accessible via a lift not available on a beginner lift pass (except if accompanied by a ski school instructor). |
so someone that just buys a standard pass but has never skied before, what are they?
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Megamum wrote: |
crosbie, You are right, but I am always amazed at how beginners slopes are ignored by those using them as a through route to get elsewhere. There were a couple of areas in Les Arcs that were def. begineers areas - Chantel in paritcular is clearly marked as such and requires a dodge through bright orange signs warning folks to access it. |
Saw that problem myself last week - a couple of clearly marked 'beginners areas' or 'ski tranquile' on the LP side, and people hurtling through them like nutters. I wish the frenchies would have more active 'pass foreiture' that it would appear they have in the USA (not skiied there myself). Have a lookout or two on the beginner area and a couple of pisties at the bottom. Anyone spotted infringing the rules gets a 2 hour pass forfeiture, which could be enforced by scanning the card, and then de-activating it on the network for that 2 hour window. If that means you're stuck in LA when you should be in LP then tough...
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Megamum, anybody who crashes into someone who is on a slope with a clearly identified ski instructor has to be the biggest dick head in the business - it is actually one of my secret fears.
Well, not a secret any more, I guess.
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This is recklessness. His view is unhindered and his liability is complete. This is not an accident and shouldn't be viewed as such.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sun 6-02-11 20:37; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Quote: |
This is not an accident
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You think it was an assassination attempt?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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To call it an accident would be disingenuous to the term. As a 'rider ' he has reasonable foresight of consequences and this would include an inherent assessment of the nature of risk 'riding' down this sort of slope at those speeds in full knowledge of the other slope users and their ability. He is strictly liable, he has no defence and whilst there is no direct intent he is nonetheless culpable. Accidents are one thing, recklessness is criminal.
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Damien
Damien
Guest
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Quote: |
Every down slope skier must be treated as if they are using every trick in the book to lull you into complacency while they prepare for their 'insurance scam' manoeuvre to suddenly whiz into your path in such a way that you cannot stop or avoid them.
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Very funny, made me smile
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You know it makes sense.
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mugen wrote: |
so someone that just buys a standard pass but has never skied before, what are they? |
Reckless. Negligent. A danger to themselves and others. Like someone who can't drive that borrows a car and ventures onto the motorway.
Or, a pedestrian unaware they should have bought a pedestrian pass.
Basically, if you buy a standard pass and crash into a beginner (in a beginner area) then it doesn't matter whether you've skied before or not, you're culpable.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Quote: |
Basically, if you buy a standard pass and crash into a beginner (in a beginner area) then it doesn't matter whether you've skied before or not, you're culpable.
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That's a bit rich. Assumes, for a start, that there is always such a thing as a "beginner pass" and a "beginners area".
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, this is in the context of the aforementioned definition of 'beginner'. It's a hypothetical, not an assumption.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, true. Many ski schools tell beginners to buy a normal pass because halfway through the week they will need it and it's cheaper and more convenient to buy it at the start.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Megamum, What happened to the idiot who hit you. If you were with an instructor hopefully they got the idiots pass taken off them. If not I doubt they will have changed their method of boarding without care. At least in Canada they do kick idiots off. I was in Morzine and a snowboarder flew out of the trees at head height a few feet in front of me when I was progressing slowly down a green track.
I spend a lot of time on the green slopes above my wife acting as a block to try and keep others who are going much faster away from her as she wants at least a 5m bubble around her. Not easy as there is so many "experts" that seem to love blitzing down a marked slow zone as close to beginners (which they seem to view a moving trees or slalom gates) as they can get.
Skiers are predictable and it is easy to see a beginner starting a turn and you always expect them to fall over or stop. Boarders on the other hand can change direction so fast and randomly that they are very hard to predict. Wide berth to all.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd not agree that boarders can change direction any more rapidly, or randomly, than skiers. The kids who leap out of the trees onto slow tracks are indeed a menace - but just as likely to be on skis as on boards, IME.
The existing slope "rules" should be adequate - it won't always be easy to decide who is as fault and a beginner might also mow down an experienced skier, when going too fast to control their line.
the problem seems to me to be the lack of sanctions - it's exceedingly unlikely that the guy who knocked megamum over had his pass confiscated, despite the presence of an instructor. More ski patrols, warning people skiing out of control or too fast for the environment, would be a good start.
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I'm certain that in Les Arcs the ski instructor who was teaching Megamum would not have had the legal authority to confiscate temporarily deactivate the lift pass, and I've never heard of this sanction being applied in Europe other than when season passes are shared or sold.
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If instructors in North America are allowed to confiscate lift passes (and I've seen no evidence they can but am accepting comments here that seem to suggest they can, at least in some places) I guess it may be because over there they directly work for whichever mountain they are at whereas in Europe the ski schools are independent, at least on paper, and instructors don't work dierctly for the company that operates the lifts. When I instruct on dry I work directly for the slope and do actually have the power, if I see the need, to throw people brreaking the rules off the slope whereas on snow (at Cairngorm) I don't have that power despite the fact the ski school I work for is semi-official, as in only one given an office on the mountain and the only one mentioned in the mountain's literature and website. All I can do in those circumstances if I see someone behaving dangerously is tell any miscreants off and hopefully, because I'm in a uniform, they'll take some notice - most times though they ski/board dangerously and if it's a near miss but nothing further they then dissapear down the slope befpre anything can be said. My only other option, in say a more serious incident which involved a collision, would be to phone ski patrol directly and ask them to send someone out to deal with the incident ASAP and stay on the spot and try to ensure the person at fault did so too - I guess I could help ensure that by hanging on to a ski or board if it was off and refusing to give it back but frankly even that is way beyond my remit and if someone got nasty I'd have to give it back to them. Also in those circumstances I might well be too busy dealing with any injuries to be arguing about who stays where - something in NA instructors don't do I should add.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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shoogly, the fast skier hoping for predictable behaviour in front is why I use hand signals if I'm going to make any extended manouvres. Sure the uphill skier has the responsibility, but I also have to worry about fast skiers assuming that no-one's going to venture into 'their section' of the piste. There's being hit and it not being my fault. And then there's being defensive and not being hit (as much).
NB Not saying anything about the downhill skier here, just making a tangential point.
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