 Poster: A snowHead
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Have now been stung twice in consecutive rentals by sharp practices from Holiday Autos (who make a feature in their communication that they have “No Hidden Extras” – based on my experience below this is a complete fabrication).
I turned up at Munich airport last Saturday to collect my car, having paid £277.92 for what was advertised as “Total Rental Price”, to be told that I had to pay another 104 Euros to take the car on the road, for winter tyres (a legal requirement). Sure enough, somewhere in the small print was something saying they were entitled to this, but to my mind, its rank dishonesty to advertise at a price which isn’t actually obtainable….the winter tyres were not an optional extra. (Any lawyers reading this, please advise, but I suspect I’ve got a good case to take this up with Trading Standards). I’ve rented regularly before from Switzerland, including via Holiday Autos, where the price has been always been inclusive of legally required snow tyres.
This episode comes on top of a previous piece of trickery involving fuel charges. The industry norm is to charge you if you don’t return the rental car back with a full tank. When I went to collect a car at Larnaca last summer, they demanded something in the region of an extra 75 Euros for the fuel in the car, and had the cheek to position this as a benefit to me as I didn’t have to refuel the car before I brought it back. I saw it simply as a scam to charge me for whatever fuel was left in the tank when I returned the car. It’s clearly not possible to bring a car back with a completely empty tank - no one in their right mind is going to risk running out of fuel on the way back to an airport.
Until these last two episodes, I had rented without problem from Holiday Autos. It now appears that they are run with the same level of integrity that is expected from timeshare salesman. Even if alternatives are more expensive, I won’t ever give my business to this bunch of shysters again.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I turned up at Munich airport ......another 104 Euros for winter tyres (a legal requirement).
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In December we were advised by Hertz at Munich that winter tyres are recommended in Germany but are not a legal requirement. However, they are a legal requirement for Austria - where we were going - so we had no choice but to be stung for the extra charge 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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mountainaddict,
(1) Here's what the AA site says: Germany has recently (4/12/2010) introduced new regulations requiring all passenger cars and motorbikes including vehicles from foreign countries to be fitted with winter tyres or all season tyres on all axles when conditions are wintery.
(2) They told me it was oblgatory at the car hire desk
(3) They never asked me whether I was taking the car to Austria
My point stands - the car was advertised at a price at which it was not possible to legally take it on the road
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Julian T, had you booked before the law changed? 104€ sounds excessive.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I give it 3 more posts till this turns into a Ryanair thread
go Mikey!
car-rental firms are generally absolute crap. Interesting that they pass the cost of a legislative change to the customer so openly (and use it to skim a few extra ducats too no doubt) - some EU/EC jobsworth somewhere might have something to say on that one.
Sadly though, moving on from it and simply keeping away from them in the future might just be the best option, trying to take it further might not achieve anything other than winding yourself up 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Bear in mind here that Holiday Autos is a broker rather than a car rental company in its own right. These extra charges are being imposed by the car rental companies themselves (Avis, Europcar, whoever). Now you could argue that Holiday Autos should do a better job of keeping up with and communicating up to date information on charges and you would probably be right, but the problem here is lack of competence rather than malicious intent. Remember that there will be no commission to Holiday Autos on charges that are imposed directly by the rental companies so it's not in their interest to undercollect.
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I regularly rent cars in the UK (can't be bothered to own a car any more) and it is NEVER cheaper to rent through an agency.
Abroad it is the same but it is far easier to go through a broker - typically because you don't know who to rent with (a search on the airport website will give you that info).
Agencies couldn't give a toss about you. A direct booking is different however - your contract is with Hertz, Avis etc and any complaints will be taken more seriously.
With many purchases online I don't read the T & C but just tick the box - with rental cars it is imperative that you do as policies vary significantly.
Usually a good idea to arange an XS policy - far cheaper than the hire company (Enterprise charge £10 a day!).
Just re-read my post - it sounds a bit smug but it isn't supposed to be. The main rental companies would prefer your booking direct (no commission) and will be as cheap as a broker - same as flights these days - too many horror stories around of people using Expedia etc and getting no customer service if things go wrong.
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| Quote: |
had you booked before the law changed? 104€ sounds excessive.
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I booked on December 23rd. The AA state that the law changed on Dec 4th. And yes, 104 euros is excessive (even the small print only stated 9-11 per day...for the 8 days I have the car that is 88 max)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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That trick of charging you for a full tankfull and bringing the car back empty in Cyprus is worked by ALL the car hire companies there. Not just HA.
I've booked online thro' HA a couple of times (referred there by the airline booking). Very competitive rates and they only acted as a broker. The cars were actually picked up from Hertz or similar. No probs. But maybe I've been lucky.
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Julian T, Thanks for the post. I have been looking for a car next month and have a price from HA with the 'No hidden extras'. The price was good but I wasnt convinced about the extras claim. This saves me having to ask the question so I will continue the search
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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HA has been brilliant for arranging US car hire for us. Less successful in Italy. On one occasion our car was T boned by someone else and their supplier (SIXT in this case) could not provide a replacement...
It used to be good when you could get Avis cars with Tesco vouchers 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I've booked several times with Holiday Autos without problems or extras.
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I have rented three times in Cyprus with different companies and it has always been the same that you have to pay for the fuel at the start and return the car as empty as possible. So think this is not Holiday Auto's fault it seems thats the rules when hiring cars in Cyprus.
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You know it makes sense.
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| e17phil wrote: |
I regularly rent cars in the UK (can't be bothered to own a car any more) and it is NEVER cheaper to rent through an agency.
Abroad it is the same |
'Fraid you are a bit wrong there...
I regularly rent through Hertz and Avis for business purposes and I'm a member of their loyalty scheme with all the benefits that come with it, however, they have told me time and time again, that they "will not price-match brokers"
Latest episode was booking a car in a couple of weeks in Boston for a trip to New Hampshire with the wife and kids... Hertz were a good 25% more expensive and absolutely would not move on the price despite my loyalty to them when booking for the business...
Also had the interesting experience of booking the wrong MONTH for a ski trip to CHamonix (turned up at the desk to be told we were a month early - THAT was a bit embarrassing). We sat in Geneva airport with Hertz, asking them to help us out with a hire car. They replied with a quote of over 300 euros for the week... I luckily had my laptop with me and there and then booked the same car from Hertz for 100 Euros less! The lady handed me the SAME keys that she had just 10 minutes earlier offered me for 100 Euros more...
If you think you are getting a better deal (price wise) booking with the hire firm direct, then you are losing money hand over fist.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Just been back on the HA website. For a pickup at GVA Swiss side, a pop up says snow tyres mandatory,price not included in quote. Pickup from french side, no pop up about tyres.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Markoncarp, I read the article in a different manner! I read it that e17phil, said that brokers were cheaper than the agency direct!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've hired several times from HA and never had any problems.
I've just booked (after reading this thread) with them again for a trip to Northern Ireland this weekend.
As usual, I will take photos of the car on pick-up and drop-off in case the Agency (EuropCar in this case) tries to sting me for dinks that I haven't made.
However, when I used them for a trip to the Dolomites earlier this year, I deliberately chose my flight to arrive in Austria (Innsbruck) because I knew that winter tyres and snow chains would be standard - I gues that's knowing (from numerous threads on here) and playing the system.
Julian T, I think you are having a go at the wrong people, as stated above HA is just the broker.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| BergenBergen wrote: |
| a pop up says snow tyres mandatory,price not included in quote. Pickup from french side, no pop up about tyres. |
"POP UP"
Some people use popup blockers..... this could be a problem
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I have rented three times in Cyprus with different companies and it has always been the same that you have to pay for the fuel at the start and return the car as empty as possible. So think this is not Holiday Auto's fault it seems thats the rules when hiring cars in Cyprus.
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Not when we were there last Jan it wasn't. No snow and too warm to ski though (oblig. skiing link)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Julian T, Had the same problem over tyres/winter pack in Vienna a few years back. Paid up and reclaimed from Avis UK who accepted the original booking.
I'm not sure about Holiday Autos, however many of the smaller rental co's and most of the consolidators do not provide full service etc in the event of a breakdown or accident as Hertz/Avis do -in other words if something goes wrong it can be an expensive and time consuming process- so caveat emptor on the small print.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have been looking for a car next month and have a price from HA with the 'No hidden extras'. The price was good but I wasnt convinced about the extras claim.
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After starting with a list of prices for Geneva hire from Travelsupermarket, I went through the best priced suppliers and what was/wasn't included. Autoeurope may look more expensive to start with - but seem to include snow tyres and chains in their price as a matter of course.
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My most recent hire with HA was £210 for 7 days from Salzburg for an Astra, going to Saalbach. Pickup was from Megadrive/Denzel in the terminal, who were offering a special discount deal that day, so I checked their desk prices and also checked online for the same period. Both were showing €490, which is still the online price. All of the other on-site operators (Avis, Hertz, etc) were quoting €500+ for the same period.
Winter tyres included, obviously, as this is Austria. Chains not included, and a charge of €35 was levied for out of hours pickup for after 1730 (since when is 1800 on a Saturday out of hours for a major airport???).
Overall, I was happy. Taxi transfer for 2 was quoted at €240, which would have taken slightly longer, while the train/bus option was 4.5 hours, when we did it in 90 minutes and then had the car available during the week for an evening trip to Zell am See, and for ease of movement around the valley for a different starting location on some mornings. €35 in fuel.
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I hired a car from Memmingen in Nov 2009 to go to Solden, there were winter tyres on it. The car hire guy said it's the law in Bayern to have winter tyres in winter as it's a snowy lander so they have them on the cars as standard. The new law is for the other lander in Germany. Sounds dodgy to me, it's like charging extra for a the steering wheel!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Richiavo,
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I have rented three times in Cyprus with different companies and it has always been the same that you have to pay for the fuel at the start and return the car as empty as possible. So think this is not Holiday Auto's fault it seems thats the rules when hiring cars in Cyprus.
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When we went to collect the car in Cyprus, we were specifically told that because it was a Holiday Auto booking, we had to pay for the full tank of fuel in advance - the implication was that this wasn't the case for all customers. My assumption is that because the hire companies have to accept a lower margin on bookings via brokers (such as Holiday Autos), the hire companies find other ways of charging to offset the lower margin. Incidentally, have just checked Hertz for Cyprus - there is no suggestion that they use this particular con trick.
Freddie Paellahead,
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Julian T, I think you are having a go at the wrong people, as stated above HA is just the broker.
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I disagree - my main issue with HA is that they know full well that there are other charges (be it petrol in Cyprus or snow tyres in Munich) but deliberately choose to hide this by burying this detail in some obscure bit of small print, while they claim loudly to have "No Hidden Extras". By comparison, while the Hertz website for Munich does list snow tyres as an extra (still questionable given it is apparently a legal requirement), it presents it very clearly as an option. Further, if the fault does partly lie with the local hire company, Holiday Autos ought to be a position to nail them for any sharp practices employed against HA customers. If I was the HA Marketing Director, I would be concerned about the impact on the Holiday Autos brand if partners like the inappropriately named "Thrifty" in Munich were shafting my customers.
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| Quote: |
I regularly rent through Hertz and Avis for business purposes and I'm a member of their loyalty scheme with all the benefits that come with it, however, they have told me time and time again, that they "will not price-match brokers"
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I was looking to hire a car with Hertz a couple of days ago and they have a big banner saying Price Match Guarantee, ie if you find a cheaper price through a broker they will match it.
Things are changing a bit in the car hire world, similar to airline flights, ie it very often used to be the case that booking a flight via an agent was cheaper, now it isn't (unless you use a consolidator).
IMO you should use an agent to get a feel of prices and then look to book direct. If things go wrong and you have used an agent the agent couldn't give a toss and neither could the hire company as it was an indirect booking. Clearly if you can make a significant saving using a broker then go for it but I'm personally finding it's cheaper to go direct (or at least a similar price).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
When we went to collect the car in Cyprus, we were specifically told that because it was a Holiday Auto booking, we had to pay for the full tank of fuel in advance - the implication was that this wasn't the case for all customers. My assumption is that because the hire companies have to accept a lower margin on bookings via brokers (such as Holiday Autos), the hire companies find other ways of charging to offset the lower margin. Incidentally, have just checked Hertz for Cyprus - there is no suggestion that they use this particular con trick.
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I have never booked a car in cyprus through Hoilday autos's but always through the main agency and every time we have been given the car full and told to return it empty.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Julian T wrote: |
| This episode comes on top of a previous piece of trickery involving fuel charges. The industry norm is to charge you if you don’t return the rental car back with a full tank. When I went to collect a car at Larnaca last summer, they demanded something in the region of an extra 75 Euros for the fuel in the car, and had the cheek to position this as a benefit to me as I didn’t have to refuel the car before I brought it back. I saw it simply as a scam to charge me for whatever fuel was left in the tank when I returned the car. It’s clearly not possible to bring a car back with a completely empty tank - no one in their right mind is going to risk running out of fuel on the way back to an airport. |
A lot of hire companies I've used both in the UK and abroad DO expect you to return with either an empty tank OR with the gauge at the level it was when hired (be that 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, whatever...). As you say it makes thing interesting and I'd much prefer places that provide a full tank (and returning the same) but doing something different isn't that uncommon.
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Holiday Autos arrangements in the US always seem to require you to buy a full tank from the rental company. You then get landed with all the surcharges. I find it quite a fun game trying to get the fuel light to come on before getting back to the airport in which case I score that as a win to me although not without stress to my passengers  .
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The one issue I had when booking through HA was a problem with Alamo at Boston. Eventually resolved in my favour.
Alamo/Europcar (booked through HA) in Brighton and Heathrow give you the option to return car full or empty before you take it away.
Europcar UAE don't bother with fuel charges - you receive the vehicle as the last person left it.
For me, HA are the most convenient and cheapest overall method of renting In the UK and USA. In UAE it is cheaper to book direct.
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FAQ
