 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
fatbob, I agree it could well end up a legal minefield. I just think that its a shame that the whole situation has got to this point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| kevindonkleywood wrote: |
I just suggested that confrontation is never a good way to settle disputes like this
|
Actually I think it depends what you mean by "confrontation" (the dictionary has a different view to the man on the street  ), but I know what you mean...agressive action rarely gets you anywhere. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of examples of situations where a boycott has led to companies climbing down with good grace. Does seem unlikely here though!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I don't really think I was calling for aggressive confrontation. I was simply stating that these are issues you might want to consider when spending your money on your holiday. Indeed this might affect current employees and subsequent business dependent on Sunshine Village. But once again, this is not my or any other concerned individual's responsibility. The blame of any financial repercussions must land solely on the the Scurfields and upper management for shoddy business practices. Let the free market decide their fate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
kevindonkleywood what? This is the reality of business is it not? You seem to be suggesting that consumers do nothing. Or rather, that they continue to provide patronage to this company in spite of the circumstances. Please refer to my first posting. I highly recommend people consider the Bow Valley as a world class destination. But once there, consider whether or not Sunshine Village is deserving of your money. You have several choices that offer an excellent product sans scandalous nepotism.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Mr Technique wrote: |
| Alexandra wrote: |
| If you're not getting effed over by a family like this then it'd be Intrawest. We are all but fleas on the corporate dog. |
I thought Intrawest had shot that dog in the face. |
I know it's naughty - but that made me laugh and laugh! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
PatrollersNeedSupport, You seem shocked that I could possibly be affronted by your total lack of concern about other employees at the resort. Your are clearly hell bent on 'making the Scurfield's pay' for what you believe is wrongful treatment of your friends.
I would suggest that this makes you no better than Taylor Scurfield with his alleged 'I will make the Patrol pay' comments.
You seem also seem surprised at the companies silence on the matter, but the truth is twofold, firstly there is a lawsuit outstanding against them and they would be foolish to make any press statement, and secondly they are behaving in the same way a parent would when their toddler has a tantrum, they are ignoring it knowing that it will burn out quicker if they don’t stoke the fire.
The entire focus of this effort seems to be negative, the concerted campaign to try and get the sponsors to withdraw from the resort is misguided. Why can’t you understand that less people on the hill does not help anyone,
Face it the Scurfields are rich enough not to care, less income just means less jobs. The Scurfields will still have their ‘playground’ it’s just that there will be less people in the way for them.
I took the time to look up the resort on wiki:
| Quote: |
Local ownership returned in 1981, when Sunshine was bought by the Scurfield family of Calgary. Improvements continued with the opening of Wheeler Ridge double chairlift in 1984 (named for A.O. Wheeler who helped establish the Alpine Club of Canada). The lift system capacity was further improved in 1988 with the replacement of the Angel double chairlift with Banff's first high-speed quad chairlift, built by Poma.
Over $40 million was invested in the 1990s and early 2000s to improve the visitor experience. New high-speed quad ski lifts were constructed replacing T-Bars, fixed-grip double chairs, and other old lift systems. Goat's Eye Mountain which opened in 1995, with a 1,900 ft (580 m) vertical high-speed quad chairlift, virtually doubled Sunshine's skiable terrain. More advanced and adventure terrain was opened thereafter. In 1998 the Delirium Dive extreme zone opened and a terrain park was added on Lookout (Continental Divide/Brewster) Mountain.
The original gondola was replaced in 2001 with a brand new high-speed 8 person Leitner-Poma version. Amenities were improved too; all restaurants and lodging were completely renovated. Sunshine Village is still fully-owned by three members of the Scurfield Family of Calgary: Ralph D. Scurfield (the majority owner), John W. Scurfield, and Sergei Scurfield. Today, Sunshine Village has ten chairlifts in total. Eight are quad chairlifts, including 6 detachable high speed quads.
|
If this is their record of ownership then they actually seem to be very good for the resort and the area?
In your dream scenario you get the much derided and “scandalously nepotistic “ Scurfields to move on and dump the resort. What then? A fairy godmother comes along and you all live happily ever after? The real world is not like that, if you are lucky you will get another private owner with money to burn, however it’s more likely you will get a big corporation or venture capital outfit taking over, you will then yearn the days when it was just ‘scandalous nepotism’ that spoiled your days.
Do you think that a big company would have acted differently towards your friends if a ‘rich VIP client’ had chosen to make a ‘heads must roll’ complaint about specific patrol team members? If its not nepotism then it would be the undue influence of the wealthy patrons
If you really want utopia then put together an employee buy out proposal, form an employee cooperative and take over the management yourselves, best of luck with that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Do you think that a big company would have acted differently towards your friends if a ‘rich VIP client’ had chosen to make a ‘heads must roll’ complaint about specific patrol team members? If its not nepotism then it would be the undue influence of the wealthy patrons
|
I dont know what employment rights are for other Countries - but I'm guessing in Canada people can not be lawfully sacked for doing their job properly, just because it affects the fun of the owners son. Thankfully employees have laws to protect them from the scratchings of the "corporate dog". I look forward to the outcome of the legal process.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
kevindonkleywood, I dont think he asked for "utopia". He's seeking support for some long serving employees who appear to have been unfairly dismissed. Nothing wrong with that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kevindonkleywood, can I just point out that PatrollersNeedSupport has never asked for a boycott? he has asked people to consider this incident when deciding how to spend their money. it's not exactly tub thumping
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Shimmy Alcott, Accepted, but the problem is the nature of the support he is seeking will if sucessfull cause the loss of other poeples jobs and will not get the original patrollers their jobs back.
Had the request been for:
Help building documantary evidence of:
a) The sacked patrol's excellent and professional attitude
b) The poor attitude of Taylor Scurfield, or the rest of the family
c) The unsafe nature of the Scurfield's approach to management
That would help support the case in court, may get their jobs back or may get them compensation, (both of which would put Ralph's nose out of joint)
Less skiiers on the hill will not get anyones job back It will cost innocent parties their jobs, PatrollersNeedSupport, does not seem to care about this, all that seems to matter is that the management 'pay'.
The unfair dismissal is something that should be delt with by the court case where they may be awarded their jobs back, awarded damages etc. None of the other 'actions' help support this.
You are right to use the word appear as we do not actually know anything and every story has 2 sides.
Edit: Sorry that all sounds very agressive and rude it was not meant to be.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 6-02-11 11:44; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Arno, There is plenty of rhetoric surrounding this.
The facebook group is portraying :
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2011/02/03/calgary-sunshine-boycott-facebook.html
the request of the original post was for us to visit that very facebook page?
| Quote: |
I highly recommend people consider the Bow Valley as a world class destination. But once there, consider whether or not Sunshine Village is deserving of your money. You have several choices that offer an excellent product sans scandalous nepotism.
|
That seems fairly explicit too but perhaps my understanding is flawed?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kevindonkleywood, The sacked employees did not immediately take their action to court, they only did this in the last few days. I suspect that they are not the type of blokes to do "courts". Maybe they just all hoped that if enough people made some noise about the incident then the Management/Owner would re-consider their decision. I doubt very much these guys just want a payout, they probably want their jobs back and for none of this fuss to have ever happened. They have, bar one, all worked on that hill for donkeys years. Now its in the hands of the courts then I guess there is less of a need for the peasants to revolt ( ) but if I was one of those guys it would be nice to know that there was support out there. In this day and age we dont have to suffer at the hands of bully boy bosses, thankfully.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Shimmy Alcott,
| Quote: |
peasants to revolt ( )
|
Rest assured, I am revolting 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
kevindonkleywood, if you want to open a ski resort, there are a certain number of people you need working regardless of whether any skiers turn up or not. that would include patrollers - you simply can't make big areas safe without patrollers - lifties, people selling tickets, running the mountain restaurant etc. so i take your point about that some layoffs may arise but maybe this is a situation where this is a price people are prepared to pay in order to force the scurfields either to back down or get out. maybe none of this will happen and the resort will make ends meet but at least the patrollers have put a marker in the sand which might make resort owners think that that had better be careful if they want to treat their resort like their own personal fiefdom
and the fact remains that whatever the rhetoric elsewhere, PatrollersNeedSupport has been very balanced on here. maybe you should make your explanations on the places where the rhetoric is? "consider whether sunshine village is deserving of your money" is not a call for a boycott - it is a much more subtle message than that
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Arno, I was attempting to make the point that the OP directed us to the facebook page, which as is widely reported was asking for a boycott.
Perhaps my understanding of english is at fault:
| Quote: |
| A boycott is a form of consumer activism involving the act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with a person, organization, or country as an expression of protest, usually for political reasons. |
My understanding of the comment
| Quote: |
"consider whether sunshine village is deserving of your money"
|
Would be that of
| Quote: |
| act of voluntarily abstaining |
Please dont take my comments as in anyway supportive of the management position, I just simply cannot see how encouraging less people to ski at SV will help get anyones job back, but then I am often hoplessly naive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| In this day and age we dont have to suffer at the hands of bully boy bosses, thankfully. |
Unless we're overheard cracking a poor joke which offends establishment sensibilities.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
laundryman, it wasnt a joke, it was 100% sexual discrimination. Rightly sacked in my opinion
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Shimmy Alcott, nobody was discriminated against. They made a type of remark that po-faced neo-puritan bullies can't excuse on grounds of humour or anything else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
The SV dispute has little to do with most of us. If there is limited patrol cover that is relevant to anybody going there. Other than that I think we should be wary of consumer boycotts vociferously requested by one side - they can giving out misinformation (remember Brent Spar and Greenpeace?) - and there can be unintended consequences (such, as has been pointed out, the loss of jobs for innocent parties).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Unfortunately a British boycott of Sunshine by British visiotrs will make no difference whatsoever. Since Brits purchase the Big3 liftpass, to cover their transport costs too, even if they ski soley at Lake Louise, Sunshine will stil get their cut ?
If they decide to not purchase the Big3 lift pass and only purchase a LL pass they would then need to hire a vehicle and the other costs along with it - fuel and Park pass - making it more costly than the Big3.
I agree its a bad situation - coupled with the bus fiasco lets hope some good does come of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
In this day and age we dont have to suffer at the hands of bully boy bosses, thankfully.
|
I don't think things are quite the same in Alberta............
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
kevindonkleywood, an interesting point. During apartheid in S Africa though did you still buy S African goods or did you boycott them, even though knowing that doing so would hurt those workers in S Africa you wished to help? (Assuming you're old enough that is!).
Personally I'd act on a matter of principle, that where there is such a wide choice of excellent ski resorts to choose from - and whilst Sunshine is still being so pig-headed about the ski bus - I would choose to take to take my money elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
