 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've also been looking. Are the plastic shovels really not worth buying?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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No idea on Tempered vs Aluminium but plastic shovels are not worth it - having practiced digging in avalanche debris it really is tough.
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Read this and then make your mind up
http://www.telemarktips.com/TeleNews69.html
Facewest won't stock them because they view them as not up to the job, and they would make money selling them.
The difference in price between a plastic one and the aluminium one I posted a link to is just so small that I wouldn't risk it
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My shovel (BCA tour - with probe in handle) stays in the boot of my car when I'm not skiing. As far as I know, it's just aluminium (no fancy tempering or titanium tipping etc) but it's been used to dig my car into parking spaces & dig it out of snow drifts on several occasions & honestly, you'd hardly notice that it wasn't brand new. If digging against stones and asphalt doesn't perceptibly harm it, I can't imagine that anything about a rescue situation would hamper it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks, I'll get the standard one then and try to ensure that I never have to find out
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| sweaman2 wrote: |
| No idea on Tempered vs Aluminium but plastic shovels are not worth it - having practiced digging in avalanche debris it really is tough. |
In real life I bet this guy was glad his mate had a plastic shovel. You may be able to dig someone out of avalanche debris that is much denser with an metal blade - but whether the guy you are attempting to rescue would have survived being buried in that stuff is another matter.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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For an earlier discussion of plastic v. metal I think this thread covered most if not all bases.
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achilles, that is a very sobering video.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| jimmjimm wrote: |
| rambotion, Forget plastic blades. There is no reason to buy one over a metal one..... |
Certainly was when I bought mine and gave away my metal-bladed shovel to easiski for her car - it was lighter. As any back-country skier or walker will tell you, every little bit of weight saved reduces tiredness as the day wears on - so one is less likely to make a mistake or a bad decision. So one is less likely to have an incident in the first place. I have certainly avalanche debris that I would not have liked to tackle with my present blade - but I think the trauma of having been buried in that stuff would probably have killed me anyway, no matter what shovel I was eventually dug out with. The video I linked to above shows a real life incident - the plastic shovel (looks as though it was a good-quality one like an Ortovox) worked.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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One thing that I didn't realize until watching an Avalanche program at the weekend is that during an avalanche heat is created from the snow. The avalanche snow collides / rubs together and this increases the temp causing the snow to melt in many instances (e.g. in Europe's higher temps). This was evident on a thermal camera they were using. The snow then refreezes after the avalanche and means you are not buried in superlight powder but in compacted wet snow that has refrozen.
Maybe things have changed but a metal shovel was the way to go as they were more sturdy then plastic.
http://www.telemarktips.com/TeleNews69.html
http://hubpages.com/hub/Avalanche-survival-Carrying-the-right-gear-may-save-your-life
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 28-01-11 11:03; edited 3 times in total
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achilles, you're really on a crusade on this, aren't you?
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, only when provoked 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| achilles wrote: |
| jimmjimm wrote: |
| rambotion, Forget plastic blades. There is no reason to buy one over a metal one..... |
Certainly was when I bought mine and gave away my metal-bladed shovel to easiski for her car - it was lighter. As any back-country skier or walker will tell you, every little bit of weight saved reduces tiredness as the day wears on - so one is less likely to make a mistake or a bad decision. So one is less likely to have an incident in the first place. I have certainly avalanche debris that I would not have liked to tackle with my present blade - but I think the trauma of having been buried in that stuff would probably have killed me anyway, no matter what shovel I was eventually dug out with. The video I linked to above shows a real life incident - the plastic shovel (looks as though it was a good-quality one like an Ortovox) worked. |
So how much weight saving are we talking about? I'd say max 300 grams.
Really not looking for an argument or to be right here but are you sure you want to give that sort of advice to people who could end up trying to dig through compacted frozen snow with a piece of plastic?
http://www.justgetout.net/Wenatchee/14054
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| Metal vs. plastic. Shoveling avalanche debris is a bit of a misnomer. When moving snow comes to a stop, it sets up and can be rock hard. The correct technique for uncovering your partner is more of a chop and then remove sequence than it is shoveling. The best material for this job of chopping is metal. Metal blades are more durable and hold up much better than plastic ones under repeated chopping. The characteristics of aluminum also allow for less deflection than a plastic blade. Deflection is when the chopping force of the blade bounces off a material because the blade bends. Less deflection allows for better chopping, which is important for avalanche debris. |
| Quote: |
| Weight. Once again, when you need a shovel, you really need a shovel. This type of critical safety equipment is not the place to save weight. Look elsewhere in you backcountry kit if you want to shed grams. |
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Poster: A snowHead
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| achilles wrote: |
| sweaman2 wrote: |
| No idea on Tempered vs Aluminium but plastic shovels are not worth it - having practiced digging in avalanche debris it really is tough. |
In real life I bet this guy was glad his mate had a plastic shovel. You may be able to dig someone out of avalanche debris that is much denser with an metal blade - but whether the guy you are attempting to rescue would have survived being buried in that stuff is another matter. |
OMG...I've never seen that footage before. It made me breathless just watching it. Makes you think twice. Never go offpiste on your own in my book.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i can sort of take the point that if you have a plastic shovel already you might not want to replace it. i can't think of any reason to recommend buying a plastic one to someone who is buying a shovel for the first time
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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jimmjimm, good one - I think my Orange Ortovox is 600g - and low cost. Buying a 3rd shovel during my off-piste skiing career does excessive, since I think what I have does the job - and my shovel handle looks to be longer when extended. But were I buying afresh I'd look at that.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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achilles,
All things look longer when extended
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