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MK snowdome - disgusted

 Poster: A snowHead
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I just felt I should let fellow snowheads know about my experience yesterday at Milton Keynes snow dome, as I think that things have got even worse!

I have been maybe every few months over the last two years and I know that sometimes it can get a bit busy and the snow quality is not always good. However, I like the friendly instructors and it is the most convenient slope for me.

On Monday night, things did not go well. Firstly, they seem to be cutting back quite heavily on staff. Ok, I know it’s a business that is probably struggling to make money right now. The front desk was closed, so everyone had to queue at the clothing desk for clothes hire, making bookings, paying and refunds. So we had to queue for 20 minutes just to get our slope passes (we had already pre-booked and paid). Then once we got changed we had to wait about 15 minutes to get to the front of the ski service desk queue. For a supposedly ‘quiet’ night, having to queue for all this seemed a bit daft. Especially as I had been a few weeks ago and this had not been the case at all.

One of my friends had her bindings set up wrong (which didn’t become apparent until she was skiing down the slope!). The binding was not locked on her correct boot size, so once she started to ski, the binding got shaken open, causing her to fall. She took her skis back to the desk and they were pretty dismissive of her, until they actually looked at the binding and conceded that it had not been locked to her boot size. I know people make mistakes, but I am not impressed with the dismissive attitude!

Of the main slope half the slope was closed off (which is better than the ¾ closed it had been the previous week). I appreciate that this happens a lot, but considering only a handful of racers were using the closed slope, it did seem a bit unfair. The half that was open to the public, both recreational skiing and those on snowcoach lesson, was in a very poor state. The top third was a mass of moguls, clumps of old snow, ice, and a rail that had just been left on the slope. There were patches of ice hidden under a tiny dusting of snow for much of the slope length. The bottom third of the slope was also very icy, including a 10m by 5m sheet of ice at the foot of the slope. I understand that the slope can get chopped up sometimes, and scraped where people brake before the lift queue, but it was apparent that the slope had not been groomed in a good while. A number of people were having bad falls on the moguls/ice, and those who had just reached recreational standard were really struggling. There were grown adults in tears! Considering Monday night is a snow coach night, aimed at skiers who have only just learned to link plough-parallel turns up to intermediates, you would hope that the slope would provide a safe learning environment. Even staff at the slope were muttering about the slope being in bad condition.

A number of people had already complained to the manager (Jimmy), and then while I was complaining, more people came to complain. The manager’s response left much to be desired. Firstly, the closed slope was closed because it was old snow and due for maintenance at the end of the night, so closed for safety reasons. Then it was closed because the racers had paid to hire the space and not just for their lift pass. The manager did not think the condition of the open slope was a problem, and implied that if skiers were having difficulty on it, then it must be because the skiers do not meet the minimum standard for recreational slope use (i.e. you are all crap skiers). He would not acknowledge that the moguls and ice were a problem. He then said that you get moguls and ice on a real mountain, so deal with it. I did point out than on a real mountain you have a greater freedom of choice, you can chose not to ski bumps, and that many of his customers had come here to improve their skiing in a controlled environment. I then suggested that he swap the slopes, so that the racers, who are clearly excellent skiers, get the moguls and ice, and the public can have the smooth but ‘old snow’ slope. This wasn’t possible apparently. Eventually, he did offer to allow people to leave the session and re-book a session at another time. Some people took him up on this offer as they had had enough! After about 1 hour, the ‘closed’ half of the slope was opened up and this was dramatically better. The snow was a bit crusty and cruddy, but after a few people had skied it, it softened up quite well. Not a mogul or patch of ice to be seen. Most people used this slope for the rest of the session, with only a few of the better skiers/boarder using the other side to play on the moguls (which I am sure is a big treat for them).

Now, the actual coaching session didn’t start too well either. Normally the instructor is around for the first 2 hours of the 3 hour session. But yesterday, the instructor probably spend about half the first hour looking for some of his pupils, some who were in tears, some just a bit nervy. Not much coaching was getting done. The instructor really went above and beyond to try and coax people back on to their skis after some nasty falls, and spent time reassuring them. He then stayed on for the third hour, so that those who did chose to continue still got a decent amount of coaching. I just want to say thanks to him, the instructor was really fabulous.

Overall, I am really disappointed in the continued deterioration of MK dome and the real lack of customer care shown by the management and a ski tech. The instructors are the only thing that saves this place. Will I go back? No probably not. But I am sure the manager doesn’t care. He doesn’t like difficult customers like me.
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carettam,
the answer is DENDIX Toofy Grin
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herrprentler wrote:
carettam,
the answer is DENDIX Toofy Grin


Or a better run snowdome whose management is more responsive to customer comment like Hemel? Toofy Grin
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40 minutes from MK to Hemel. Luckily I'm 2 minutes from Hemel slope. MK always seems to be second favourite for us.
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I prefer Hemel too, but when a group of us go and generally live to the east and north of MK, our laziness mostly takes us to MK. Hemel is 40 minutes further, which makes a difference on a work evening.
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As Alastair Pink alludes, we had a rather tricky snowHeads ski club session at Hemel.
The response was for the slope manager to post on the topic, collect up the various issues, address them with the staff and re-post describing what had been done about it.
Accordingly the following month's visit proved excellent snowHead

Perhaps the Hemel management should look at running some of the other UK snow slopes?
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+1 for Hemel
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carettam, sounds miserable. Sad I have some family members who are dithering about which slope - shall be sure to tell them not to go to MK unless we get some better reports.
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If only Hemel wasn't the shortest indoor slope in the fecking world, it would be excellent.
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herrprentler wrote:
the answer is DENDIX Toofy Grin

There's some truth in that IMHO and it's certainly far cheaper to ski on Dendex than at a dome! Having said that what you get on busy days at some dry slopes is often as dangerous as anything described above with barely in control, skiers straightlining down slopes with little in the way of tricky conditions to make them think twice about their speed or even, heaven forbid, the idea of putting in the occassional turn ... some of 'em could do with tripping over a mogul or two to teach 'em a lesson!

However, MK seem to get repeated comments like the above so obviously they aren't doing as good a job as certain other slopes in keeping their customers happy and listening and responding to complaints.

Having said that though their is an argument to be put in support of the POV that trickier conditions are a good learning opportunity and that not enough skiers these days are used to dealing with proper mountain conditions (I happen to subscribe to this POV). However if you are advertising the slope session for people who have just reached recreational standard, and lets face it most people around at this time of year will be around about that standard, the conditions described smack more of lack of care than being useful for their development.

It's a shame really the slope seems so poorly run, it's a decent space and could be so much better!
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the biggest problem is that most of the indoor snow slopes are there as an excuse to build a shopping complex, but you can't get planning ...so you get planning a sa leisure facility and add a few shops..... i have seen a massive deterioration of the MK slope over the past few years, staff are hacked off and leaving, it seems they just don't care about the snow as it is not their only revenue stream...

then take Hemel, snow is their only revenue stream therefore it is treated well and maintained, their staff are happy and customers are too, sure you can never get perfect conditions in a small indoor slope all the time, but what is perfect??

i think if companies want to run a snow slope , then they should run a snow slope, but at least put some effort in
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I did my First Aid course at MK last October, when we did the slope drills laying on the snow, it was in a bad state. The snow was grey, full of grit with the consistency of sugar.
It was much quieter than I remember it the last time I set foot in the place. I think Hemel has hit MK pretty hard, seems like they've given up trying. That's a shame, because there's plenty of customers for both to operate successfully. It'd take some of the pressure off of Hemel at it's busiest times, better for everyone.
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Quote:

There's some truth in that IMHO and it's certainly far cheaper to ski on Dendex than at a dome! Having said that what you get on busy days at some dry slopes is often as dangerous as anything described above with barely in control, skiers straightlining down slopes with little in the way of tricky conditions to make them think twice about their speed or even, heaven forbid, the idea of putting in the occassional turn ... some of 'em could do with tripping over a mogul or two to teach 'em a lesson!


roga, the truth is that IMHO the ski attendants rarely exert any authority on the UK slopes. I was at Chill Factore in Manchester last weekend and it was full of 'straight liners' and 'hip wigglers' all pelting down during a surprisingly busy session. Many near misses, lots of comments from families and codgers (like me!) that it was unpleasant to be in.
Many many years ago i worked as a pool attendant at a busy leisure pool. On very busy sessions we were told to strictly enforce the rules - it worked and order and safety was maintained. Rules were relaxed when things were quiet. Surely the same would work on the slopes?

Or are we at the mercy of the 'i've paid my money' brigade?

MK need to do sonething because their reputation is suffering. Sad
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
linso wrote:
the truth is that IMHO the ski attendants rarely exert any authority on the UK slopes.


I have had the opposite experience at MK, very aggressively being told off for helping my girlfriend get up after she took a fall. I was just trying to explain/discuss what it was she'd done wrong, and this was construed as me giving tuition, which is banned. You might say fair enough I guess, but it was very heavy handed. One of the retarded YTS wombles they employ hockey stopped next to us in a spray of snow pretty much the instant I opened my mouth to speak, and started wagging their (presumably webbed) finger at me.

Hemel on the other hand are very relaxed about impromptu bits of coaching etc. on the slope which is a good thing.

They're also pretty relaxed about the expiry time of your ticket, I've - er - noticed.
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Mr Technique,
yep, thats not authority, thats 'thicko attitude' - which smacks of crap line management.

authority would include attendants actually skiing the slope and 'guiding' punters (oops said the P word) in the error of their ways, whilst at the same time being 'nice' to other folk, like your girlfriend,. YTS should have skied up to you, asked if all was okay and maybe helped out.

As for coaching, my kids constantly tell me what i am doing wrong - so i wouldn't last 5 mins at MK. Madeye-Smiley
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linso wrote:

MK need to do sonething because their reputation is suffering. Sad


What reputation? It's never been good.
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Quote:

I have had the opposite experience at MK, very aggressively being told off for helping my girlfriend get up after she took a fall. I was just trying to explain/discuss what it was she'd done wrong, and this was construed as me giving tuition, which is banned. You might say fair enough I guess, but it was very heavy handed. One of the retarded YTS wombles they employ hockey stopped next to us in a spray of snow pretty much the instant I opened my mouth to speak, and started wagging their (presumably webbed) finger at me.



And I had the reverse (though it was a while ago now). My youngest was having a group lesson and I was on the rec slopes (as in reck your skis, knees and technique Very Happy ) I was giving my eldest some tips for coping with the terrible condition of the slope and one 'milk monitor' politely told me that instruction and teaching was not allowed unless by official staff, he then proceeded to give my daughter about a 20 minute coaching session. I won't be going back anytime soon due to the state of the slopes but am booked into hemel in a week or two for a pre hols leg and new boot warm up session so will see how it goes there.
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I did chat to one of the MK Instructors also on my Fist Aid course, seems like their "package" is pretty good. Free skiing for them, plus they can sign in 2 friends/family for free skiing, 20% discount in all of the shops in Xscape including food outlets. maybe why the Instructors stick it out longer.
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There was a thread back in the Autumn where several forum members (me included) reported of very similar incidents and poor snow conditions at MK. I have not gone back since then and don't intend to do so ever again. I would rather get a flight to Glasgow and go to the sno dome at Braehead. I found it much quieter, much better snow conditions, all of the slopes open, no waiting at the lifts due to people constantly falling off and much friendlier staff who looked like they enjoyed their job rather than standing about doing nothing and getting paid for it.
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Overheard by friends at MK last week:-

"Due to the crack which has appeared in the structure at Manchester all snowdomes in the UK have been ordered to remove several tons of snow from their slopes, which is why it's not so good as it has been here in the past".

I must stress that this is pure hearsay and I have no evidence whatsoever as to its veracity. It was attributed to a member of staff at MK however.

Puzzled
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Yoda wrote:
Overheard by friends at MK last week:-

"Due to the crack which has appeared in the structure at Manchester all snowdomes in the UK have been ordered to remove several tons of snow from their slopes, which is why it's not so good as it has been here in the past".

I must stress that this is pure hearsay and I have no evidence whatsoever as to its veracity. It was attributed to a member of staff at MK however.

Puzzled


I'm not sure it would actually be possible to have less 'snow' on the MK slope.
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out side of complete beginners, why would anyone who can get around a mountain even bother gonig to these places
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Yoda, Certainly no loss of snow depth at Hemel, there's a black line on the wall at 50cm depth that is still covered. I doubt if it's "all" slopes in UK, as Hemel is built onto ground rather than a suspended deck.
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CANV CANVINGTON wrote:
out side of complete beginners, why would anyone who can get around a mountain even bother gonig to these places
To get lessons and do drills. My skiing has improved quite a lot since I started doing this. I concede that it would be incredibly boring just to lap an indoor slope mindlessly.
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CANV CANVINGTON wrote:
out side of complete beginners, why would anyone who can get around a mountain even bother gonig to these places


it depends on what skiing/snowboarding is to each individual
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carettam wrote:
Of the main slope half the slope was closed off (which is better than the ¾ closed it had been the previous week).


And you still paid good money to go back Puzzled Puzzled
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Mr Technique wrote:

Hemel on the other hand are very relaxed about impromptu bits of coaching etc. on the slope which is a good thing.

They're also pretty relaxed about the expiry time of your ticket, I've - er - noticed.


I've noticed this too, which when it's 9pm and beyond and the slope is empty, is nice to have. Another 10-15 mins to have a few quicker runs on an empty slope is good for us.

I'd go beyond this - we had a snowboarder with us at Hemel who was perfectly competent getting down the slope, she just really hadn't got the hang of the button lift. One of the piste patrol saw her struggling and a queue building up, came down and helped her with what she needed to do, held the buttons as they came through for her the first couple of times, and put his foot behind her board on the uphill so she could get the hang of it. After one ride up she had nailed it, no more issues and the lift queue was reduced significantly as a result. A perfect approach to the problem. I hate to think what would have happened at MK, though we weren't exactly coaching because none of us have ever successfully got on a button with a board ourselves, just tried to explain what seemed to work for other boarders we knew Smile

Stuff like that means we never make the journey up the M1 any more.
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Quote:

Kel wrote:
And you still paid good money to go back


To be clear, I was not there the previous week. A member of staff had mentioned this to me, and was also mentioned by a skier who had been there.

As hurtle says, I go to to the domes to refresh my sking before a holiday, practice a few drills and get some coaching. I have progressed quite well just from doing this. A few lessons/coaching in the dome means more time having fun in the Alps. Plus I miss skiing during the summer, so I go to a dome to get a fix and keep my ski legs.
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Yoda wrote:
Overheard by friends at MK last week:-

"Due to the crack which has appeared in the structure at Manchester all snowdomes in the UK have been ordered to remove several tons of snow from their slopes, which is why it's not so good as it has been here in the past".

I must stress that this is pure hearsay and I have no evidence whatsoever as to its veracity. It was attributed to a member of staff at MK however.

Puzzled


interesting - friend of family regularly attends that snowdome freestyle camps - they have been unable to use kickers for a while - he said due to cracks in floor (his words - not mine!) So there may be something in this.

anyone got more info? Puzzled
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CANV CANVINGTON wrote:
out side of complete beginners, why would anyone who can get around a mountain even bother gonig to these places


Ahem because we like skiing/boarding Puzzled

I do find some posters on this forum a bit odd, there's evidently more than one type of snowsport enthusiast, those who are happy to get their fix on plastic or a dome or whatever and those who seem to regard skiing as just something to accompany tartiflette and stella.

To be fair CAVV CANVINGTON at least you weren't comparing it with illicit uses of alkali metals

PJSki wrote:
Peter S wrote:
Could it be that some of the London set are way too cool to ski in the UK Puzzled


Nothing to do with being too cool. Personally, I'd rather ram a splinter of potassium into my fecking jap's eye than go skiing in England.


http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=1560880&highlight=yard+moss#1560880
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betterinblack, +1
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betterinblack, well, if you were looking for an odd poster... wink
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All you suvnas better stay away from Cas and its powder!
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Can of worms here: dry v domes, England v Alps, south v north ... blimey Wink

Strikes me betterinblack is spot on when saying there are different types of snowsport enthusiast and frankly that's no bad thing. This time of year both dry slopes and domes are often rammed with holiday skiers trying to get some practice in before heading off on their holidays, on the whole it's a great thing because they get more out of their holidays and the slopes make the bulk of their money around this time and that allows them to stay open and the rest of us (if we're sensible and avoid the crowds) slide when it's quieter and get our fix year round. Where the problems come in during the season is when slopes don't control their numbers well and allow clients who aren't up to the right standard ski without any monitoring or control, there are often complaints about this on here and no slope is perfect to be honest, particularly given their size and the numbers sometimes on them.

However we also have a situation where we have the dry slopes which are cheaper on the one hand, but aren't to everyone’s taste, and then the domes on the other but I'd say there are 2 types of dome. On the one hand we have the slopes that are primarily snowsports centres and that's their main selling point (i.e. Hemel, Chill & Tamworth, Chill is a little bit of a mix of both but I think on balance it's more like the other two and less like the Xscapes). Some seem to do the job better than others but all seem to have a majority of reasonably satisfied customers. On the other hand we have the Xscapes whose main reason for being, as I think has been mentioned, is to act as a sort of leisure extra tacked on to a shopping mall. Now these seem to garner more criticism but MK seems to be the least popular of them all and since Hemel opened down the road appears to be on a bit of a decline. Personally I quite liked MK the first and only time I visited although the snow wasn't that brilliant but I had free tickets and was attending a ski test so made the most of it. However, if I was heading over that way and paying it'd be a no brainer choice between Hemel and MK with Hemel winning every time - my 11 year old daughter loved the shopping mall experience though and would rather go there to shop and perhaps ski rather than just go somewhere to ski, all the more reason for me to stay away I guess given she'd want to spend my money lol!

All I guess have a market but if MK continues it's current decline we may not see the slope last forever if disgruntled customers continue to put people off heading there but as Spyderman says that may mean a far more crowded Hemel which I'd say wouldn't necessarily be a good thing.

To be honest, and I've said it before and doubtless will again, the UK needs at least one Landgraaf style mega dome, a place which is properly maintained, offers a very long slope(s) and is large enough to actually market itself as a destination. No disrespect to other slopes, particularly the 3 non-Xscape domes mentioned above but I do feel we are being a bit short changed at present in terms of the length, price and size of what's on offer.

Not sure whether the "Personally, I'd rather ram a splinter of potassium into my fecking jap's eye than go skiing in England" comment is designed to wind people up or what but the fact is there are plenty of people who do and would and aren't too 'snobby' to admit it. There is still a thriving dry slope scene, one that produces many serious skiers including instructors and competitors, there are the domes some of which do a similar/the same job and then, as linked to above, there are the club fields in the north of England which are about as enthusiastic and grass roots (sometimes literally lol) as you get. IMHO to dismiss all of these says more about those doing the dismissing than it does about the places being dismissed! rolling eyes
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roga wrote:



Having said that though their is an argument to be put in support of the POV that trickier conditions are a good learning opportunity


Yep, didn't understand why everyone called Tamworth icy till early one morning in Val T with a group of other low hours skiers, me thinking the hard packed (and I now concede icy) conditions looked perfect, just like freshly groomed Tamworth, most of the others thinking they looked somewhere between rather scary and out and out terrifying!
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I have a lot to be grateful to the domes for. My piste skiing has been transformed by having the opportunity to ski and practise regularly. They've even resulted in a significant improvement in my off piste abilities just from building strong fundamentals.

I have skied a lot at MK in the past and often had truly excellent snow though I obviously choose when to go wisely. I have also skied Castleford, Braehead, Tamworth, Hemel, Alpincenter Bottrop, SSAWS, Landgraaf, Xanadu Madrid so have some perspective on these places. Poor snow and crowds can be found in all of them to a greater or lesser extent. The main difference between the British slopes is in the attitude of the staff and how problems are dealt with. IME Hemel wins through on this count, though I'm often told Tamworth is well run too (I haven't been there for 6 years).

roga, MK is the least popular on snowHeads. It's more successful than Castleford, Braehead and Manchester. It's clearly not well run, but I suspect no worse run than those others.
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I'm always surprised that no-one from MK ever pops up here to defend themselves/give their side of the story? Seem to recall this has happened with some of the other centres and has also happened with shops, companies etc

Maybe as is always shortened to MK it isn't picked up by Google so much? So come on Xscape Milton Keynes answer your critics
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As has been said a number of times on here I truely beleive both snow domes and dry slopes have a place....personally I find dry slopes can provide a lot more 'terrain' interest than the 'fridges' but I do use both....1 more than the other

Yep, you may get a few moguls and the odd kicker in a snowdome but the domes often have to compromise the amount of features available (if any) because of the size of the facility...other than that its just up and down on a uniform angled slope...after a bit I feel I'm in 'groundhog day' even when doing a few drills. If I want a 'snow fix' they are ok for about an hour

I've found that at least at the majority of dry slopes I've used they have 'terrain value' which at least gives a real mountain feel..It gives a bit more variety. yep the compromise is dry slopes can be 'sticky' or slow, its frustrating, but pick your time of the day/weather conditions and you can minimise the rubbing of wax on your 'weapon of choice'.

The main thing that I find is the staff attitude, I find that snow dome staff in the main always appear to give a feeling of being 'The big I am', just cos they are on 'snow'....but yet, when an incident happens they just can't, or won't, deal with it. This is the opposite to what I've found on dry slopes...its bizarre.

I've never skied at MK but it doesn't surprise me that the comments here echo what I've found else where rolling eyes
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linso wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Overheard by friends at MK last week:-

"Due to the crack which has appeared in the structure at Manchester all snowdomes in the UK have been ordered to remove several tons of snow from their slopes, which is why it's not so good as it has been here in the past".

I must stress that this is pure hearsay and I have no evidence whatsoever as to its veracity. It was attributed to a member of staff at MK however.

Puzzled


interesting - friend of family regularly attends that snowdome freestyle camps - they have been unable to use kickers for a while - he said due to cracks in floor (his words - not mine!) So there may be something in this.

anyone got more info? Puzzled


Yes I was at the Trafford Centre on Sunday and by the time I left it was 7pm, so decided to go and have a drink at the CFe and watch the freestyler's. Didn't give it a second thought till I read this but Sunday used to be freestyle night with jumps and rail's, they even had a huge airbag one time, on Sunday there was nothing apart from a few young lads who were obviously there for freestyle.

On another note Chillis bar was grotty and I mean really grotty, I am sure this is not what the shareholders had in mind when it was opened, it was quite smart then and I usually had a bite to eat, not now.
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
linso wrote:
Yoda wrote:
Overheard by friends at MK last week:-

"Due to the crack which has appeared in the structure at Manchester all snowdomes in the UK have been ordered to remove several tons of snow from their slopes, which is why it's not so good as it has been here in the past".

I must stress that this is pure hearsay and I have no evidence whatsoever as to its veracity. It was attributed to a member of staff at MK however.

Puzzled


interesting - friend of family regularly attends that snowdome freestyle camps - they have been unable to use kickers for a while - he said due to cracks in floor (his words - not mine!) So there may be something in this.

anyone got more info? Puzzled

I've had a proper update on this situation. Chill FactorE which is a slope built on a supported deck, has it's structural calcs done with a certain thickness of snow normally 50cm designed into it's load bearing weight. What happened a CFe was that a large kicker was built for a freestyle event, which exceeded the single point loading of the supporting structure, which caused a crack.
The same thing has happened in MK, overloading the design point loading of the supporting deck. In MK's case it was causing excessive flexing of the support deck. Compounded in MK's case by the fact they were not scraping hard packed icy snow out to melt pits. Compacted snow obviously heavier than fresh snow.
Insurance companies have re-assessed the weight capacity of the supporting deck structures and have reduced their permissible load ratings, so in effect no more big jumps, which inflict high point loads on the deck.
This re-assessment of load limits has been applied to ALL UK snow domes with the exception of Hemel which is built onto a natural hill.

I think this is probably worthy of a separate thread.
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