 Poster: A snowHead
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
davidof, don't blame Intrawest for everything.
Two words:
La Daille |
Built of course, in 1968 by the French equivalant of Intrawest, COGEDIM. Plus ça change.
There is a certain logic to concentrating accomodation as COGEDIM did and Intrawest has done in some developments rather than dotting lots of little Tyrolean style wood chalets all over the mountain. Méribel looks a bit like the garden shed section at a B&Q superstore, personally I find it worse than la Daille which is tucked under a mountain - ok so COGEDIM constructed their buildings in an avalanche zone, which was not so clever.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Too many disadvantages - too far away; jet lag upon return; necessity to go for 10/14 days to make it worthwhile; expensive lift passes; general lack of Alpine ambiance; inability to get all-inclusive deals.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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hibernia, Just right
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Although for those who didn't get my earlier point: (Hibernia included...  )
I was lucky enough to do a couple of days back country around the Tetons last season (layered within a few days around Utah). After an "awesome" couple of descents I asked my guide how often the snow was as it was (thigh deep, champagne powder). Her reply (with a perplexed expression), "Gee, just about every day. Why d'you ask? Is it different in Europe?"
Come on, get booking, burn airmiles if you have to (what's that Nectar Card for after all?), you can almost always transfer through Newark if you need to.. Just leave those cheap Friday night LHR-Geneva flights for us poor folks wanting a simple life, skiing where we can, enjoying the ambience, walking uphill cos the lift's broken down again, ordering lunch by shouting at the locals cos they don't speak the Queen's English don't you know...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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davidof, I quite like the architecture of La Daille. It isn't conventionally beautiful, but it does have a certain horrific grandeur to it IMHO.
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Alastair Pink, Colossal? Stupidly Colossal! Every time I go to America I end up putting on a couple of kilos, which I then have to spend weeks working off again. I know you don't have to eat it all, and you can have a doggy bag if you want, but that just goes against my education.
I've only ever skied in Whistler. Great place, but you can hardly claim that the weather is good. The quality of the snow was not significantly different to Europe. The big plus is the friendliness of the staff, and of everyone in the resort in general, including all the Microsoft employees up from Seattle for the weekend!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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OK, here's my tuppence worth. No experience of USA, and although we enjoyed both our trips to Canada (Whistler and BAnff), Europe wins hands down, shorter flights, no jet lag, Fondue, better wine. I could go on. Also, I enjoy skiing in the sunshine, and there was precious little of that in Whistler this Easter, fog, snow, low cloud etc. Oh yes, and the awful re-fuelling stops instead of nice lunches on the mountain.
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In fairness, it's like everything else. Intra-US you can go from the Sublime (Utah, Jackson Hole, Blackcomb) to the ridiculous. No offense intended but much of the East Coast is great if you live there so you can ski with your chums at the weekends but a terrible waste of Jet-A if you don't. I've heard similar said about Tahoe and the other west coast areas (by ex-pat Europeans who should know something of which they speak).
I mean, an aquaintance is a regular at Squaw. When he was trying to persuade us to visit, the best feature of the mountain is apparently the lockers at the base of the (only?) chair so you can leave your gear there overnight. Needless to say this was not a compelling recommendation. (Maybe he was just trying to keep the Eurotrash (me) away?
When I worked in the industry late '80s early '90s a lot of clients were "defecting" to North America because Europe had had a run of dreadful snow and the Yanks had snow cannons. Well, times change. We've got them too.
In fact, if you want to combine the best of North American East Coast snow conditions with true European hospitality? Try Courmayeur... (DM runs & hides behind the sofa)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just as a pedantic point - lake Louise and Sunshive Village are actually in Canada - I've skiied at Sunshine - amazing snow and my 1st time skiing, and climbed at Louise (well the ice was fantastic). Accom in motels was cheap, as was car hire and driving all over the Rockies in Feb was just awesome. At Sunshine ski hire, lift pass and full days instruction came to £35 per day. I'd go back for sure - just gotta work on the courage for the double diamonds
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| Just as a pedantic point - lake Louise and Sunshive Village are actually in Canada |
Did anyone say they weren't? Canada was part of N. America, last time I looked. Just a pedantic point. 
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By North America I assume we are talking about The Rockies. East Coast skiing just does not seem worth the effort.
Negatives :-
* For the cost of a flight to Denver you could get a last minute package to Europe.
* Many resorts are not really ’destination’ resorts. You may travel a long way to be disappointed.
* There is a limited window of opportunity when temperatures are right for skiing the Banff resorts in any comfort
* Lift pass is expensive
* Instruction is expensive
* American cities hold little interest and you may need to spend a night in one. The 'wrong side of the tracks' is a very real concept. The scumbags will be lurking just around the corner waiting for you.
* You may need to change flights. You will have to remove your footwear for airport security
Positives :-
* American skiers are very polite.
* American motorists are not as aggressive as in Europe.
* Cheap shopping opportunities.
* Cheap motels in some resorts.
* North America may have good snow when snow is poor in Europe.
* Bragging rights down the pub. You have skied Palookaville, Idaho when poor Mr. and Mrs. Jones had to make do with the Three Valleys yet again.
I do not think North America is worth considering for less than a fortnight.
I am what Donald Rumsfeld would consider ‘old Europe’ and a Francophile as well. I like practicing my French and limited Italian. Americans do speak English but they may not even know what a ‘fortnight’ means. I kid you not.
Americans seem to come from another world. I include my some of my own relatives amongst them. (They were raised in Europe but went native). Do not expect any conversations about sport in the US either - unless you bump into another foreigner.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
East Coast skiing just does not seem worth the effort.
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Well, I thought Stowe and Sugarbush were quite impressive actually, though I wouldn't make a special journey from the UK to ski them. But if you're in the eastern USA in the spring they're well worth skiing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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But its not just about travel cost is it?
My experience of NA is limited to Colarado (Keystone, B-Ridge, Vail) and Whistler / Blackcomb.
Snow - /weather : could be good could be bad. But when its good, its very, very good. Unsurpassed in fact.
Haven't experienced anything in Europe that even comes close to the best the American continent has to offer. They call it champange powder. Wonder the French havent complained - guess they daren't. There is nothing on God's earth that comparies with NA powder days.
Friendliness and facilities - we over this side are (still) not in the same 'ball park, to use a NA phrase. OK so lots of lift attendants, but Qs are well ordered, there's "snuffle stations" at every base, and goddamit they are are about helping. Unlike certain nations I could mention.
For e.g. had a multiday pass at Whistler ("use any 12 of 14"): , middle weekend, weather a bit dodgy, went up the mountain, it got worse. Came down to base station, and went back to the office to abandon for the day - no problem, even though we had been on the mountain for the best part of an hour, we were refunded our day's tickets without a murmur.
That'll happen in Europe after they've built the runway for the pigs....
Prices - more than compensated for by accomodation and general stores - I reckon 2 weeks of coffees on the US slopes more than paid for the air fare difference to France. It's about value .
And lets talk about the contributors above, who rate the apres ski less so in NA. I guess its about what you want, but the prevalence of jacuzzis in the US and Canada, where you can sit under the stars, with a beer in hand, snow falling, and enjoying the company of friends and family, to my mind is a sure fire better way to spend an evening than some smoky pub full of yobbish brits and X10 priced watered down lager.
Just an opinion you understand...
So : do all the positives overwhelm the travel time, the eco-impact, the jet lag, the smaller resorts (both horizontal and vertical) and the insistence that black double diamonds are dangerous? - possibly not, its probably about evens stevens for me. Therefore my considered opionion is: "no preference".
What a lot of hot air for a fence sitter.... 
(but if I was based in the Mid-West, I wouldn't come to Europe except to say I'd done it once)
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Poster: A snowHead
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The Apres Ski in Whistler is pretty good if you ask me. The GLC is always worth a visit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kramer, I'd agree with you there, I can also recommend the Brewhouse.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would like to go to Canada or Utah but my skiing buddies who have skied North Amercia extensively aren't interested.
There are so many little gems in Europe that I need to get round to, plus a few revists that I can't see me going sometime soon.
Heli-skiing in Canada appeals, of course, but weather is weather and you get what you get so I am quite happy to wait for storms and dash off to the alpes for a few days. This tactic has been quite successful for fresh snow days in recent years
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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JimW,
I used to think that Americans would avoid places like Chamonix like the plague but they don't, they love it for what it is and return every year. Ditto Zermatt and Engleberg. These guys can cope with ice and steep runs off the back of Brevent etc. The impression that Americans only ski 'Coudroy' doesn't apply here!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Helen Beaumont, I like the Brewhouse as well.
I would say that skiing in North America is different to skiing in Europe, not necessarily better or worse.
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Well, I haven't skied in North America yet but I shall be remedying that next March: 6 days in Whistler, including two with Extremely Canadian, then a week of heli-skiing
(I'll say that again- HELI SKIING - in case someone didn't hear).
Don't mind me I'm just showing off.
Going with Last Frontier to a small new lodge with 10 places (ie 2 groups) and slightly more challenging skiing than most Canadian heli. The place is so new that everyone is still skiing some routes nobody has skied before (and being invited to name them).
Of course I can't really afford it but I've got to try it once and if I wait any longer my skiing will be going downhill!
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stuarth,
Never bothered about lack of sun. Always looking to see clouds, the darker the better. Don't even mind a journey down through France in the p*****g rain. Hope it is heading for the hills...!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So we are all agreed that :-
* It is not worth making the Trans Atlantic trip purely to ski - except for the Rockies and a fortnight's holiday ?
* It will cost more - but it is about value ?
That rules out people who do not have two weeks and those with limited funds.
I have done :-
* Banff - great but still cold in March,
* Whistler -great but nobody is going to claim Whistler has special powder with its maritime climate. Incidentally, I thought this was the best stab at a proper destination resort in North America.
* Lake Tahoe resorts - cheap accommodation and interesting but cheesy nightlife. Chance to take in San Francisco or Reno if you wish.
* Utah - definitely not destination resorts in Cottonwood Canyons, but the best snow was there. Salt Lake City was cheap but boring and getting a proper drink is difficult, despite what they say.
So, I have been to a selection of the places and got the T shirt. I will return to North America when snow is poor in Europe or dollar is weak and I have a fortnight available. I will still look to Europe first when I consider skiing though.
I have no difficulty with fellow Europeans on ski trips. Jacuzzis are nice. They even have them outside the $30 motels in South Lake Tahoe - but they are not that big a deal for me. I value Austrian beers and the great mountain restaurants in Switzerland more than jacuzzis. I much prefer a decent spot like the Flualp in Zermatt or some of the reasonably priced Davos mountain huts to scoffing Kielbasa in a US refectory style cafe. Then again they do not bother with lunch in the US as they look to to maximise the value of the lift pass and the lifts often close earlier than in Europe anyway.
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snowball, Lucky you - I bet you have a great time.
BTW I have a friend who did Heli ski-ing in Siberia last year and said it was great. they couldn't ski every day, but managed a hellovalot of vertical in 4 days - and all totally untracked. If anyone fancies it I can put you in touch. Oh yes, they went after the end of the European season as they're both ski pros.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Latchigo wrote: |
So we are all agreed that :-
* It is not worth making the Trans Atlantic trip purely to ski - except for the Rockies and a fortnight's holiday ?. |
I did two seperate one week trips last year. I'm used to travel, and know that the first couple of nights I'll wake up early, but after that I'll be fine, and when I get home, two good nights sleep, and I'm right as rain.
| Latchigo wrote: |
* It will cost more - but it is about value ?. |
It will cost more to get there than a last minute trip to Europe, but once you are there, the savings made from food/drink prices. and clothing etc, can make it similar or CHEAPER.
e.g. 7 nights in Big Sky, Montana end of Jan 2005: cost of flights £320. cost of accomodation in a 3 star ski in/ski out hotel with hot tubs, pool etc: under £100 bed and breakfast based on 4 people sharing a standard room (which could take 4 easily). I shared a room with one other, so the cost was £200 for the week. I don't think that's expensive!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Wear The Fox Hat, no it's not expensive but its a lot more than you could have paid in Europe at the end of January and you probably wouldn't have had to commit to sharing a room with 3 others to get a decent deal.
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When it comes to US destination places for Europeans. I would recommend ski hills built around old towns; i.e. Aspen, Telluride, Sun Valley, Whitefish. I've done a few seasons in these places (admittedly in the 80/90's) but thers towns have Great skiing & graet Apres !
The food can be awesome, but to get the best of it you need to make room so I recommend you go on a diet & lose at leat 5kilos BEFORE you go !!!
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You know it makes sense.
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We live in the North East U.S. and are very happy that we have ski areas nearby, but I wouldn't advise anyone to cross the pond to ski in the North East, unless they had other compelling reasons to visit here. Snow quality and weather just aren't very consistent and most areas are small. That said, Stowe village is terrific. We went to Lech 2 years ago and loved everything about it -- simply magical. We're tentatively planning to return to Europe next winter. That said, it's hard to beat the consistency and quantity of snow in Utah, and Park City is a blast. I do think a lot of American resorts are very bland compared to Europe but places like Whistler, Aspen, and Park City offer a solid all around experience. Personally, I'd probably just spend my life in the Alps, if I could.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David@traxvax, two words: SINGLE SUPPLEMENT.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| hibernia wrote: |
| Too many disadvantages - too far away; jet lag upon return; necessity to go for 10/14 days to make it worthwhile; expensive lift passes; general lack of Alpine ambiance; inability to get all-inclusive deals. |
It all depends on your priorities. Flying time is not really a problem unless you are so pushed for time that you have to cut down your travel time to maximise skiing time. Jet lag takes some peopleorse than others; my family and I don't find it a big deal. I have np problem with 10/14 day hols (especially as the basic price is usually almost the same as for 7 days). The lift passes are pricey (the queues are generally shorter and better managed, 'though). 'Alpine ambience' is lacking, although some NA resorts have their own ambience. 'Alpine ambience' can be lacking in the Alps, of course, and in some of its forms (Meribel springs to mind), you're better off without it. The lack of all inclusive deals is a big plus for NA in my book; I prefer to have the freedom to eat where I like (you can do that in Europe as well, of course). NA has advantages not generally offered by European resorts.
Europe and NA each offer things that the other doesn't. It isn't either/or; there's nothing to stop one from skiing in both (in the same season if you're lucky).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowball, stuarth, I did two trips with TLH (same outfit as Last Frontier). Very professional, did all they could to make sure we had an awesome experience.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Horses for courses I'd say, having skiied both, my views are:
"safer" off piste in the US with the concept of "in bounds" skiing, means in places like Utah, Jackson Hole, Colorado you can hike and ski off piste in patrolled areas.
Less lifts and vertical in the US compared to Europe
Worse food in US slope side restaurants, cr*p beer esp in Utah!
Currently IMHO the US is too far to take my 5 and 2 year old, when the 2 year old is older, I shall be looking into taking them there.
When you look at the amount European resorts charge for kiddie ski hire, lift pass etc, then the US resorts often do cheaper packages ie free lift pass for kids.
I managed Vail for 7 days many years ago, catered chalet for £299 last minute booking 
cheers,
greg
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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gregh,
| Quote: |
"safer" off piste in the US with the concept of "in bounds" skiing, means in places like Utah, Jackson Hole, Colorado you can hike and ski off piste in patrolled areas.
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You can do that in Europe as well. My favourite area is the Dammkar in Mittenwald, which is patrolled but not pisted in any way. Some Austrian ski resorts are starting to do the same, e.g Powder Heaven in Kitzbuehel.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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cheers Mike, Dammkar is a new one on me, a quick google found this site:
http://alpspitze.al.funpic.de/tripreports/dammkar_feb_05/dammkar.htm
Which said:
"We yo-yoed the tram a bunch of times and by the fourth run, most powder was tracked out already. I was quite surprised how fast that could happen"
So is it just one area they do this to, hence it get's tracked out quickly?
regards,
greg
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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gregh, my experience of the Dammkar is that if you go there during the week you usually have the whole place to yourself! If you are lucky enough to hit it on a powder day then it's really second to nothing. Like the report says, there is just one cable car going up from Mittenwald, and then you have to walk from the station along a four hundred meter tunnel to get to the start of the Dammkar itself (you can in fact go over the top on foot, but it's dangerous and a number of people have been killed doing it). You then have a seven kilometer ride down to the valley, whereby the the last three are not so interesting. You have an unlimited number of variants that you can ski, so normally it doesn't get skied out all that fast. TheWeekends are a bit more problematic.
Here's a pic of me with my own powder grin. You can't see it in the picture, but it's definitely there 
http://www.lawrie.de/Dammkar/MikeDammkar.bmp
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| gregh wrote: |
| Currently IMHO the US is too far to take my 5 and 2 year old, when the 2 year old is older, I shall be looking into taking them there. greg |
2 is a bit young, especially since s/he won't care whether s/he's in NA, Europe or Mars. We took our kids to NA (Mammoth) when they were just 4; the flight was no problem at all, to my surprise.
BTW, there is decent(ish) beer available in NA these days. Where do you find it on the slopes in France?
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cheers Mike,
We've done the odd boys weekend to Gressoney and are always looking out for new places to try. I couldn't find a UK website that shows the areas, where it is, what other links/lifts there are etc? Is there such a website?
cheers,
greg
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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gregh, we also have many patrolled, but not pisted runs (mostly black). They're either labelled pistes or itineraries.
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yeh thanks Charlotte I've skied (mostly face planted) most of them many, many years ago after heavy fresh snow!!
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