 Poster: A snowHead
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The Dauphine Libere reports a British skier in serious conditon after avalanche at Val d'Isere.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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why isn't the ghoulish el hen  picking up all these deaths and injuries - that avoids all these multiple posts
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Because red 27, the 'ghoulish' el Hen is having a couple of days off over Christmas. OK?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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admin, calm down
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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red 27, obvious you haven't met El Hen then 
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red 27, errr... do you know who El Hen is... ?
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stoatsbrother, I suspect not.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
do you know who El Hen is... ?
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Does it actually matter?
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What a shame 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sarge McSarge, yes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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achilles, Sarge McSarge, in my opinion, no, unless she is personally involved with the people in this incident.
Can we get back on topic now?
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Shimmy Alcott, you can do as you please. You can also express your opinion, as you have. Equally so may I - especially when it was called for - as it was by Sarge McSarge.
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You know it makes sense.
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achilles, who is el Hen then?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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NatalieG, gf of admin. Rather a caring sensitive lady, from what I have seen. I don't think posting avalanche stories is ghoulish. There are always lessons to be learned, and the stories may help other off-piste skiers in similar circumstances - in this case a heads-up that even ABS bags may not save you. I had seen reports of near infallibility; clearly you need to be on the alert to pull the handle, and be mentally prepared to do so. In my case, I do not intend to buy ABS - but the story is food for thought.
I didn't know the deceased, so I am not personally involved - though it is never pleasant to read of a skiing fatality.
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Poster: A snowHead
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achilles, all agreed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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achilles, I think because el Hen only seems to post on snowNews (which on the whole seems to be quite bad/negative news - deaths and broken bits etc) that a 'ghoulish' impression may be given - the provider of bad news etc is a bit like the grim reaper perhaps ? It is particularly bad reading in that section at the moment ! I am sure she is not ghoulish in real life 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As rayscoops says, Snownews can be quite a varied mixture of items (good and bad). el Hen just presents them as they occur, so I'd say she's more goulash than ghoulish! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boredsurfing, it is very sad.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I knew David, not well, through Dinghy Sailing and Windsurfing, he was a multiple champion sailor and a keen windsurfer as well as a skier. My thoughts to his family.
Whilst this thread may appear morbid, it highlights that safety off piste cannot be taken for granted, it appears that they took all appropriate precautions, guide, airbag etc. yet still came to grief. This sort of event highlights the risks, and is a wake up call, for those including myself who are tempted to duck the rope.
I am on a boys week in mid January and will take on board this "heads up".
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It was a fatality in Val d'Isere many years ago - some Britons who were skiing with a local guide - that made me resolve not to venture off-piste, being caught in an avalanche seemed to me to be such a stupid way to die. I also attended the wedding of Prince Charles' equerry who died in Klosters (he too was accompanied by a guide) leaving a widow - an old friend of my husband - pregnant with his child. That further consolidated my fear of skiing off-piste, as did watching a documentary about the avalanche research centre in Davos, in which many experts admitted and underlined repeatedly the gaps in their knowledge and in their ability to predict when and where avalanches would occur. Over recent years, I've become less scared, more 'up for it' and perhaps increasing age has made me a bit more fatalistic. This terrible incident has badly scared me all over again.
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This is a tragic accident.
Those involved tried to minimise the risks involved by skiing with a highly experienced guide and were fully equipped even with ABS. It appears that the avalanche occurred in an area that though off- piste is ‘within the ski area’ easily visible from lifts and is frequently skied by unguided skiers. From reading about the current risk in that area there is an on-going risk of slab avalanches at that altitude with instability likely to remain throughout the season.
Despite vast knowledge and preparation etc. this slope caught out this expert group. Could it have been avoided? Should the resort take more responsibility to control such slopes that are either known to have been the site of previous avalanches or those that are easy accessible ‘at risk’ slopes? Including those the many routes that were in the past detailed on the piste map eg Charvet, Gd Vallon etc. that have had serious avalanches in the past and are continually skied as ‘pistes’.
I know Europe has a different attitude to off-piste to America/Canada but surely resorts should attempt to minimise the risk where at all possible. Would it be practical to blast these slopes? People will continue to ski these areas, many of whom will have no guide or equipment. Is it the risk of once the resort is seen the take some responsibility for off-piste areas that they will become more liable if an accident occurs? Or is it that it will encourage more people to be falsely reassured?
My thoughts are with all involved.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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More info here
http://www.henrysavalanchetalk.com/bad-accident-yesterday-val-dis%C3%A8re-0
Pretty unlucky to be killed by a class 2 avalanche as he was only 1 metre under the surface. Although it was a heart attack that got him. A younger person might haved survived as Davidof pointed out.
The airbag saved his wife and is a worthy investment for any regular off piste skier.
This looks like a very unlucky incident as 3 avalanches occured along the top of the bowl at the same time and the guide had to rescue the wife first then the husband. Had he only had one burial could he have dug out the man quicker?
Alpine Experience are known for their conservative outlook to "risk". will be interesting when more detail about group/guide placing on that morning.
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| norris wrote: |
Pretty unlucky to be killed by a class 2 avalanche as he was only 1 metre under the surface. |
Please excuse my ignorance but what is a 'class 2' avalanche?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| norris wrote: |
| Although it was a heart attack that got him. |
"Heart attack" as in an episode at least partly triggered by a diseased heart, or "cardiac arrest" as in his heart stopped because it wasn't supplied with sufficient oxygen because he couldn't breathe?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It's interesting to see the photograph showing the 3 separate avalanches and reading the article written in HAT.
Has anyone knowledge of the snowpack at this time i.e. having dug a snowpit and examined the layering? The image certainly suggests that on slopes of this aspect and altitude that there was a general instability and not just in isolated locations.
I understand the risk was at 3 (Considerable).
I would be interested to know how many people carry out shear tests to make their own judgement on whether to ski a slope or not?
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| retsil wrote: |
| Would it be practical to blast these slopes? |
I don't understand. What's the point of blasting a slope that isn't a designated piste or a danger from above to the piste users 
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You know it makes sense.
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stewart woodward,
Avalanche Scales -
1 Relatively harmless to people.
2 Could bury, injure or kill a person.
3 Could bury and destroy a car, damage a truck, destroy a small building or break a few trees.
4 Could destroy a railway car, large truck, several buildings or a forest area up to 4 hectares.
5 Largest snow avalanche known. Could destroy a village or a forest of 40 hectares.
marksavoie,
The third avalanche under the lift might have been bombed to protect the lift?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| marksavoie wrote: |
It's interesting to see the photograph showing the 3 separate avalanches and reading the article written in HAT.
Has anyone knowledge of the snowpack at this time i.e. having dug a snowpit and examined the layering? The image certainly suggests that on slopes of this aspect and altitude that there was a general instability and not just in isolated locations.
I understand the risk was at 3 (Considerable).
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I would like to find out more too. I understand that the No.1 "visual" sign of avalanche risk is other avalanches on similrar aspects. Does anyone know if the other two were present when they entered the fatal slope, or are they post incident slides?
Still - horrible tragedy...
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think this is also the company who posted on their blog last year, apparently misinterpreting the behaviour of an SCGB off-piste group last year according to other witnesses. Long saga - but does show how "the Avalanche does not know you are an expert".
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| I think this is also the company who posted on their blog last year, apparently misinterpreting the behaviour of an SCGB off-piste group last year according to other witnesses. Long saga - but does show how "the Avalanche does not know you are an expert". |
is this the thread?
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=50842
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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davidof, indeed.
And here is the witness's post
Is this in the same bowl?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
davidof, indeed.
And here is the witness's post
Is this in the same bowl? |
It would appear to be the same spot. Note that the AE commentator is Andreas not Wayne but presumably all statements on the website are company policy.
That is an extremely unfortunate thread in view of circumstances but does it mean you can never make any comments about things you think are wrong for fear of being a hostage to fortune?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I dug a 1.5m deep snow pit at Tignes on 13 Dec with a mountain guide, on a south facing slope above the Tommeuses chair after a short climb up towards Mickey's Ears. We found that the snow pack had 3 weak layers, including a steadily developing layer of depth hoar at the ground. The depth hoar is particularly signficant as it was formed in the early part of the season due to shallow snow depths and very cold temps. It may remain and increase in depth throughout the season and where it has not been collapsed, will be a general instability. The weather conditions/snow fall across EK were pretty similar, so it is likely that the depth hoar is widespread across EK.
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FAQ
