 Poster: A snowHead
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I've been having a think about why my Metron M9's are so easy to get on edge yet my B2's are comparitively a bit of a struggle.
After much head scratching I noticed that the M9's due to the railflex setup mount the boot base 47mm above the ski topsheet whereas the B2's with the Look P9 Lifters are lower at 35mm.
I'm reckoning this is the reason for the more sedate edge to edge behaviour of the B2's.
Would it be worthwhile raising the bindings on the B2's bearing in mind the intended use - 50/50% Off/On Piste?
I've never tried off piste properly so am wondering whether a faster edge to edge ski would make life difficult when venturing off pisted runs?
If any of you guys have any ideas or experiences like the above described be grateful for your advice/input.
Cheers,
Chris
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rockyrobin,
113/76/103 in 176cm (B2)
vs
122/74/108 in 157 cm (M9)
and a skier weight of 140lbs, Is that correct?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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comprex, Yeah - 140lbs, i'm a bit of a lightweight for my height - 5' 11".
My M9's feel like toys now  so would ideally be on 164's now for them I reckon.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rockyrobin, Probably best to leave your B2's where they are. Fast edge changes and lots of edge angle are techniques usually associated with hard (pisted) snow. In the soft and porridgey you want lots of sensitivity, so keeping your feet nearer the snow helps. The more sedate behaviour is (as well as the binding height) due to the different shape and flex of the ski.
50% off piste? - once you've got the hang of it - you'll be 100%
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would guess that the under foot width - your M9s are narrower - may be part of the difference. I would have thought that increasing the lever length, i.e. the distance from the fulcrum, by lifting your boots would make them slower edge to edge. Certainly your boot has to move a greater distance.
Then again I've never really understood the terribly basic physics of lifter plates...apart from allowing more acute edge angles on narrow skis...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Murdoch, thread for you.
rockyrobin, I agree with ski and DM, and will ski all my fat skis flat until I can reach the nasty-terrain skill of skiers like ssh, i.e. when I can reliably use dynamic parallel turns over the entire mountain.
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comprex, Thanks for thread - opening in new tab as I type. Ah, your cunning diagram makes it clear. Now I understand, you are adding effective leverage - I'd never really though about fat skis in particular.
Now, IIRC lifters started appearing some years ago on skinny skis and I could not (still can't) understand the rationale behind that.
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David Murdoch, lifters are good on skinny skis as they stop your boots (which are wider than the skis) from digging into the piste as you carve your turns, you have to have these if you want to do truly tight parallel turns with carving skis or you will go flying
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hehe, if this is what being out of season does to me I wish Winter would hurry up!
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You are not alone in this feeling 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rockyrobin, if you are truly determined to do this (please refer to Physicsman's point #3 in the Epic thread) then be aware that, at your weight, you do not need to make the B2s any stiffer.
A solid aluminium plate will change the flex, and might make it fast to edge, but will make the ski flex less. While this might make it better for some snow and worse for other snow, it will almost certainly reduce the overall versatility of the ski.
(PS if you want to really learn how to do a carving plate out of plastic, find someone who is about to skip some old (orange/black?) ESS 512 bindings with the orange 10mm plastic plate underneath. Each plate is a multi-density plastic, in two pieces, with a grooved slide in between, and all the screw holes are backed by Al or brass inserts. Truly wonderful work, you'd pay $200 for that as an accessory today.)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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D G Orf, quite. Actually I did know that particular bit, honest, but what I still don't understand is why they were hyped as being able (on skinny skis) to give you more leverage, improve your turns, etc.
Anyway, I guess the operative word is "hype".
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David Murdoch, I doubt they can improve your turns, that takes practice, however they could be said to perhaps improve your capability to make carved turns, they certainly alter the point about which the forces act on the ski so they will have an effect in laymans terms on the leverage so perhaps not so much hype as just poorly explained, I noticed this year that I do better carved turns on my Head GS skis with riser plates than I do on my Head 28X skis without riser plates so they do have some effect
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You know it makes sense.
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D G Orf, ah, but not the most controlled experiment - is it the plates or the difference in skis?... 
AFAI can determine the 28x was/is an all round, intermediate->advanced ski. If that is the case then I'd expect a GS skis to hold a carve better? I's sure you're right though, marketing piffle rather than real engineering. A few years before lifters ventured out from the WC circuit and found themselves in the "real world" tecnica were marketing the TNT as getting you closer to the ski and had a carbon fibre shank to retain rigidity while enabling a thinner sole.
Hey ho...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David Murdoch, a GS ski would hold a carve better, but it would take more work to get it into that carve in the first place.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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D G Orf, yes, I've heard you're very forceful...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wear The Fox Hat, 
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