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Ski maintenance DIY Q's

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The best thing to be doing when not on the slopes I reckon.

I edged and waxed me and the wife's ski's for the first time last night. I am not a particularly practical sort of person... although my mum always said I was much better at Woodwork than either my brother or sister. I got the starter kit + a diamond file from Edge & Wax and printed of their step by step guides. Excellent stuff. I didn't bother with ptexing as it was my first time. It was great fun. I really enjoyed myself. Supping a pint of Fullers 1845 in my garage. Just me, my ski's and me tools. Will be see how good a job I've done come the weekend Happy

Had a few questions to throw to the floor.

Is it always better to work tip to tail, even when metal scraping to prep, or edging? Or is just when waxing? What difference does it make anyway?

Do people bother with a base file? Is it really worth it and why?

I did the side edge 3 or 4 times with a "normal" file (600 grit) and then 3 or 4 times with the diamond file. Is that about right or am I taking too much off?

How far from the tip or tail do you detune? Why edge the tip and tail only to detune after?

How tragic is it to burn your bases when waxing? How can you even tell?

Do people bother with a hot scrape? Do you even bother with a cleaning fluid?

The W&E guide said to scrape off as much wax as possible once dry. Seemed like quite hard work to get it all off. Did I do something wrong? What problems does it cause if some wax is left on?

What effect would it have if I scraped and brushed out tail to tip?

Be grateful for any little pieces of enlightenment.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Layne, i'm in the same boat as you. Have waxed my brothers board and my skis once. Will look in on this thread with interest as it (hopefully) develops.

How tragic is it to burn your bases when waxing? How can you even tell?

Probably about as tragic as it gets - apart from death!

If your iron is too hot, the wax will give off smoke and if you leave your iron in one place on your ski or have it too hot, the base of your ski will expand and form big lumps and become detached from the rest of the ski. Can't be fixed.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The "experts" will be along later, but in my view...

Tip to tail or tail to tip is irrelevent.
Never use a base file unless doing a repair and filing down a blob of ptex.
Number of strokes per edge with file/diamond depends on how blunt they were.
De-tuning is deprecated on modern skis.
I don't bother with a hot scrape: law of diminishing returns. Cleaning fluid only used prior to a base repair.
Yes, scraping can be hard work: the harder the wax you use, the harder it is! Wax left on just clogs your brush.
Scraping and brushing in from tail to tip doesn't matter.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
I only have a nylon brush at the moment... what's the difference between what that will do and what other types of brush will do?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/content/category/5/14/34/ Everything you'll want to know and more here.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Is it always better to work tip to tail, even when metal scraping to prep, or edging? Or is just when waxing? What difference does it make anyway?

I always do tip to tale but not sure if its important.

Do people bother with a base file? Is it really worth it and why?

Base files are essential when doing base repairs, but take it easy as you can over do it.

I did the side edge 3 or 4 times with a "normal" file (600 grit) and then 3 or 4 times with the diamond file. Is that about right or am I taking too much off?

-I use a black marker pen when the black goes silver I stop as long as I can cut my nail with the edge.

How far from the tip or tail do you detune? Why edge the tip and tail only to detune after?

-Don't detune.

How tragic is it to burn your bases when waxing? How can you even tell?

-Don't know, never done it.

Do people bother with a hot scrape? Do you even bother with a cleaning fluid?

-No, no.

The W&E guide said to scrape off as much wax as possible once dry. Seemed like quite hard work to get it all off. Did I do something wrong? What problems does it cause if some wax is left on?

-It is hard work, especially if you put too much on in the first place. Wax left on is not the end of the world, it will slow that ski, but will be gone the first time you hit some ice or hard pack.

What effect would it have if I scraped and brushed out tail to tip?

-Don't know.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Layne, just out of interest you're not Layne W of TAMAR fame are you???
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

How tragic is it to burn your bases when waxing? How can you even tell?

Embarassed
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Freddie Paellahead, Ouch Sad Sad
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Tip to tail is better for repairs but I can't see it matters for waxing.
You don't really have to take every bit of wax off - just most of what comes off easily.
Don't take off any more metal (or p-tex) than you really have to or your skis won't last many years. If the edge can easily shave a tiny bit off the side of your fingernail when you stroke it across, it is sharp enough.

Freddie Paellahead, my condolences.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
scraping excess wax is a pain, but i have found that using a metal pan scourer (the thing for washing dishes), will rapidly finish off removing wax, hence i just scrape a little now and lightly rub the scourer over any leftovers. It also seems to be a good way to start adding structure to the wax. (only done it on a snow board)
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I should really have added, that this is what can happen if you use a travel iron.
I now have a proper waxing iron. rolling eyes

(Edited to make sense rolling eyes )
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Is it always better to work tip to tail,

Only if you're a racer



Do people bother with a base file?

Do you mean a base edge file? If so, you can more or less leave base edge alone once set.



I did the side edge 3 or 4 times with a "normal" file (600 grit) and then 3 or 4 times with the diamond file. Is that about right or am I taking too much off?

Waaay too much. Once set with the file, you only need a few passes with the diamond stone to keep them polished.



How far from the tip or tail do you detune? Why edge the tip and tail only to detune after?

Don't.



How tragic is it to burn your bases when waxing?

Very.


How can you even tell?

flames, smoke and big bumps on the base



Do people bother with a hot scrape?

Yes, it gets a fair bit of dirt out of the base.



Do you even bother with a cleaning fluid?

Only before repairs.




The W&E guide said to scrape off as much wax as possible once dry. Seemed like quite hard work to get it all off. Did I do something wrong? What problems does it cause if some wax is left on?

It is hard to get off, but unless you're race prepping the skis - the wax will come of after a few runs anyway.



What effect would it have if I scraped and brushed out tail to tip?

V.slightly slower skis (you wouldn't be able to tell)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Excellent responses everyone.

shoogly, Freddie Paellahead, pretty obvious then Happy How to wax seems a delicately balance though as obv you want it to go in as deep as poss. The E&W guide talked about ironing until the top sheet gets warm. Which I tried to do. I guess doing it regularly instead of leaving it for 3 weeks without will help!

Mosha Marc, yes I meant a base edge file. The E&W guide said if you don't have one wrap some masking tape round the end of the file to create a very small angle. That's what I did. But it seemed a bit random and not sure how crucial it is or was. I know if it's 90 degrees it's not good but you only need a slight (1 degree) angle. But obviously using a bit of masking tape isn't going to be that accurate. I guess it should be OK though.

Mosha Marc, snowball, thanks - I won't worry too much about the odd wax patch.

Obviously I won't be worrying about detuning in future.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
bug. Just read this http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/content/view/15/34/

Quote:
If you are happy with the factory base edge angle then all future tuning should be to the side edge angle only as additional base edge tuning will increase the base angle &/or lower the edge below the p-tex base which will then required a stone grind & a complete edge reset to correct the situation.

Note: All tuning is (usually) done on the side edge only as regular tuning of the base edge is likely to over bevel it &/or lower the base edge relevative to the ski base.


Seems any kind of base edge tuning was a bad idea?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
ansta1,

Quote:
Layne, just out of interest you're not Layne W of TAMAR fame are you???


Is there another?

I always wondered if there was anybody I knew on it. I see you are fairly recently joined but already in the flow. Excellent Little Angel
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Is it always better to work tip to tail, even when metal scraping to prep, or edging? Or is just when waxing? What difference does it make anyway?

For structuring with a brass brush work tip to tail and for polishing with a horsehair or nylon brush. (unless you are a racer in which case you may want to work everything tip to tail.

Do people bother with a base file? Is it really worth it and why?

Depends on what your base edge is looking like if you have lots of scratches and 'dings' then yes a couple of passes with a diamond stone on a base angle guide is a good idea.
and remember before you finish a tune you do need to deburr your base edges after tuning your side edges or you will end up with a horrible hooky ski. Do you actually know what your base angle is on your skis? you need to make sure you maintain this angle unless you are deliberately trying to change the skiiing characteristics of the ski. A larger base ange means the edges are harder to engage and the skis will skid more.

I did the side edge 3 or 4 times with a "normal" file (600 grit) and then 3 or 4 times with the diamond file. Is that about right or am I taking too much off?

Did you take off the work hardened skiing burr before you used the file? if you didnt then the file will 'skate' over the hardened material and cut only where the skiing burr is absent leaving a variable edge with the bluntest section usually under the boot where you need it to be sharpest. You will need a hard stone like an alu oxide stone to take off the skiing burrs. Did you use an angle guide when you were doing this work? if not you could be in for and interesting ride. Cutting the side edge leaves a hanging burr on the base edge of the ski, you need to remove this before you wax. A couple of passes with a gummi stone will get rid of that burr and will 'polish' your base edge and is usually the only attention your base edge should need. (unless as above there is obvious damage)

How far from the tip or tail do you detune? Why edge the tip and tail only to detune after?

I also let down the tyres on my RX8 as I think it helps the steering performance at high speed rolling eyes ......No dont do it your not tuning straight skis if the tip and tail dont have a good edge how do you expect the ski to engage and give you your carved turn, it wont.

How tragic is it to burn your bases when waxing? How can you even tell?

Too hot wax will smoke your lungs will suffer and your bases will either clearly bubble or will delam from the ski. Are you using a base iron or a clothes iron?

Do people bother with a hot scrape? Do you even bother with a cleaning fluid?

Hot scraping is a good practice, it is designed to be done with a soft wax and helps clean out dirt from the pores in the PTEX, this reduces the wear on your bases and it also helps get more of the wax into the pores, and deeper so your waxed bases will last longer between needing to be redone. You dont have to do it every time you wax. Base cleaning fluid is good for getting a small area clean of wax before a base PTEX repair, otherwise keep it away from your bases and hot scrape only.

The W&E guide said to scrape off as much wax as possible once dry. Seemed like quite hard work to get it all off. Did I do something wrong? What problems does it cause if some wax is left on?

If you leave the wax on the ski will not run as fast as it should do and may feel sticky in the snow (due to water film suction), also if you leave the wax on then as it peels off as you ski it pulls the wax out of the pores and leaves the ski base dryer far quicker than if you had cleanly sheared off the excess with a good sharp plastic scraper. If its hard its because your scraper does not have a sharp edge (run it over a coarse file a few times) you should get a nice continous ribbon of wax as you scrape the length of the ski. The other posibility is that you are using a very hard (cold temp) wax and putting too much on this will make it very difficult to scrape as the colder the designed service temp of the wax, generally the harder it will be.

What effect would it have if I scraped and brushed out tail to tip?

This is what makes the ski run smothly and glide over the snow. The ski is actually in contact witha thin film of water that is generated by the pressure of the ski this water needs to be able to flow along the structure of the ski without generating a suction effect and slowing the ski down. that is why skis have a base structure in the ptex (you should be able to feel tiny ridges running the length of the ski) Once you have waxed and scraped (cold scrape) it is important to open out this structure with brass brush. (like the treads on a tyre for clearing water from the road)

You may now wish to polish your base with a nylon brush to give you a bit more speed.

Be grateful for any little pieces of enlightenment.

I can't recommend a spyderjon tuning course highly enough Toofy Grin a few pounds spent here will save you ruining your skis.
http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
kevindonkleywood, thanks for such a comprehensive reply.

Quote:
Do you actually know what your base angle is on your skis?

According to spyderjon's data 1. I think I may have ruined that now though Sad

Quote:

Did you take off the work hardened skiing burr before you used the file?

Gulp. No. Mind you I don't have a stone to remove them rolling eyes

Quote:

Are you using a base iron or a clothes iron?

Base Iron.


Think I may do a hot scrap at the end of the season.

I did brush out the ski's well.
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Quote:

I think I may have ruined that now though


If you did it by hand without a guide you most likely increased the base angle slightly not the end of the world you can rework this with a proper guide and if you are very lucky you wont have taken enough to require a base grind but even if you have dont worry the skis will survive Smile

If you get a chance to visit Jon in Nottingham I would do so, Its well well worth the time and effort to go and learn from him how to do it properly whilst eating biscuts and drinking tea.

I would buy an alu oxide stone, a proper base guide and a gummi stone as a minimum addition to your toolkit though and read through his guides as they really are excellent, but if you contact Jon he will sort you out (if hes not away skiing rolling eyes )
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
All I can say is read the tuning tips on Jons website, or even better treat yourself to a trip over and have a day with him teaching you how to keep your skis in tip top condition.

He knows his stuff and is a great guy and tuning/waxing wizard.

http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/

Tuning lesson with ski tune for your own skis: http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,19/category_id,8/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,38/
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You edge the tip and tail to ensure they're smooth so you're less likely to catch an edge. You detune them so you're less likely to catch an edge. I work both ways as I'm very right-handed and so I can only use my right hand to file. I tend not to bother filing the base - a metal scraper will ensure it's flat and smooth. You should leave the wax on for travelling as it helps to protect the base and edges in transit, I usually don't bother to scrape as the wax comes off in a couple of runs although it sometimes doesn't and I will scrape then. File the edges until they're as sharp as you like them - experiment a bit. Personally, I like sharp edges as they lead to livelier performance from the ski which I like even in soft snow or powder.
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