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expert level skis vs idermmidiate level skier

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
can somebody answer this please?
if a low level skier like me (4-5 level)
uses expert level skis what will
happen?
snow conditions
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Heh, I'm reminded of what a good friend of mine said when he first tried carving skis, years ago...

"We had a total misunderstanding. I was trying to do what I wanted to do, and they were trying to do what they wanted to do".

arcadioV, it does depend on what you mean by "expert skis" and also on your weight and height. Very stiff skis will be unforgiving on technique so you may find yourself more often in the backseat and getting very tired, or having the skis literally shoot off from underneath you. But if you're relatively heavy then you may still maneuver them well.

Some people find that they like the feedback from higher level skis and improve their technique to deal with them...I guess that a majority just get tired more quickly and possibly progress more slowly.

I'm assuming you're not considering a pair of fat big mountain chargers, which would be tricky to turn on the piste.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
4-5 in which scale?
GS race skis skid just like any other ski.
My experience of Atomic GS skis with naff style was that you learn to go really fast just railing edges then use all your energy to stop (and knacker thighs). And bumps are a nightmare.
A week of lessons with rob+scott helped a lot... 2nd week on Salomon GS was far more enjoyable, but there's no way you can call me expert.
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arcadioV, depends Very Happy


Typically 'expert level' skis are stiffer in flex and torsion so are a lot less 'forgiving' (not talking about pure factory race skis, they are another beast alltogether)

Most intermediate level skiers are still using skidded turns to a greater or lesser extent which mean that the stiffer skis will make them more prone to catching an edge. They may also find that the skis feel very 'hooky' in the turns as they engage the tips.

Also the stiffer flex may mean that they may not be able to sufficently flex the ski to carve a turn if they are a lighter skier and the ski will ride on the tip and tail without flexing and hence just go straight (typically on the inside ski)

The other difference if you move to race skis is that the base bevel angle reduces so it takes less movement to engage the edges.

However: you may love a stiffer ski and your skiing may improve if you move to a stiffer ski, without knowing more about your skiing and your body height weight it would be difficult to give an answer beyond my initial: Depends Toofy Grin

what are your skiing plans and what prompts such a specific question?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
arcadioV, Put it this way . . . If you bought the most expensive, hand made out unobtainiarubber condom . . . would it make you a better lover?

I'm an ok skier (others can say whether I'm knob or gnarly) and a couple of years ago I hired some puka race slaloms and for two minutes out of ten they were an absolute joy, the other eight they were an f'in nightmare, I just couldn't drive them hard enough all the time. As others have said, weight strength and fitness are three criteria to go stiffer, the fourth is technique. Get better and you yourself will know when you are overdriving a lower end ski and then move up to the next level.
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thank you all

iam 180cm 85kg 40years old
11 years recreational skiing using atomic beta ride skis (1999 model)
what do you suggest?
CHIP 66 + RFD 14 or iSUPERSHAPE MAGNUM + FreeFlex Pro14 (HEAD models)
and please
170cm or 163cm is best for me?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
arcadioV, At that height and weight you will want the longer skis. you would also have the weight to drive a stiffer ski provided you technique is ok.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
arcadioV, why not demo some skis next time you go skiing, get a feel for what you like and what you don't like. It's the only way to find out what suits you. I wouldn't spend money on skis without at least a day's demo.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Masque,
I have got better over the years, I think I'm more 7 than 8 on this guide
http://www.insideoutskiing.com/levels.html

I am aware that I have felt like I am overdriving a ski but I'm not sure. Are there some tell tales on this?

Thanks
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
arcadio,

There's two possibilities on this
a) the expert skis are just wasted on an intermediate but will do them no harm
b) the expert skis actually hold back their skiing compared to a more appropriate ski

I tend to the second view (although you can exagerate these things). More expert skis tend to require you to be more dynamic and/or ski faster in order to bend them into the turn shape you want. The payback for this is greater edge hold, precision, stability at speed. I think an intermediate would benefit much more from a softer flexing ski.

J
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Mike3000, I couldn't even begin to measure myself on a scale, I'm a snowboarder and went to skis without going through the snowplow lessons bit, my first turn was a carve and I've been working on that ever since. I did a weeks school with Fastman on edging skills and found that there's an almost identical correlation between edge control on board and skis.
I think that you know you are overdriving your skis when you are in total control of them 100% of the time and you can sense when the ski(s) are fluttering out of the carve track and washing the nose or tail out even though you are correctly positioned and you cannot adjust your input into the skis to bring them back under control without slowing down. This assumes that you are still in control and It's not you that's 'washing out'.

It is a suck it and see situation and your best friends are a video camera and a qualified observer, that and trying different skis because I'm of the opinion that most consumer skis are built to flatter consumer skiers and each company has a different measurement of that. Their 'high-end' skis are made for skiers who ski more that once or twice a year and have the technique and muscle memory to stay in control of them.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I remember a few years back when in had my first shot on anything approaching high performance skis... K2 Apache Crossfires. First thing i had to try and do was catch up with them!!!

At the time i was probably able to ski moderate red slopes comfortably and was very inexperienced in different run conditions. They were scary fast and demanded input of power and skill that i didn't have at the time. Learnt a lot that day though and thanks to the experience and some helpful tips from a certain ski instructor friend, my skiing improved.

That same week i went back and skied some Salomon Street Racer 6 skis and they felt terrible in comparison - lack of control, lack of response to input.

Best thing you can do is give it a try. Only then will you find out if they are for you or not. Don't dwell on your first impressions though as it could possibly be a negative one... keep going and reep the rewards of higher end skis.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
arcadioV, sorry to butt in on your post but I find this very interesting. have been battling with my atomic nomad blackeye skis 164 for 2 weeks sking and not making any progress despite ski course etc. approx where in the scale would they be rated for stiffness and would they be considered intermediate or advanced.
I'm 5'6" and 11st+ and 43yrs old avg fitness with 12 weeks sking. have been looking for an excuse to sell and demo a few skis on jan trip Toofy Grin
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I have the Atomic Blackeye Ti in 178mm and am 1" taller than you and 1 st heavier and find them fine and dandy. I have a few weeks more practice than you though. Your non Ti are softer and more forgiving and shorter. I'd say they were fine for you

Are they waxed and tuned? makes a huge difference

They also do like to be skiied aggressively and at speed
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
creedgearoid, Blackeyes are quite stiff skis for what they are and better suited to heavier people. Having said that they're not necessarily beyond you with your stats, though maybe just not the very best of skis to be trying to build up fundamental steering skills on.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
madmole, I would say i'm not an aggressive style skier and prefer to cruise. only the occasional bit of speed when i'm racing my niece.
slikedges, I do find it difficult to get a feedback from them so maybe need something more flexible. any suggestions?
if I was to sell the skis when would be the best time to do it, ie now or after xmas. got them as a wedding pres so no idea what they are worth!!??
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
creedgearoid, I love Atomic skis and I have ridden the early (heavy boogers and stiff) Blackeyes and like all Atomic skis they do not respond to a light touch and centre weighting. I was astonished at how far forward I had to put my mass into the ski on turn initiation and how far back I had to go on the turn exit ... proper snowboard technique Twisted Evil ... to get them to hook into a carve and finish cleanly. Bimbling about over the centre of the ski just led to lots skidding and angular turn shapes. We often think we're moving our mass over the skis but reality and a video will show otherwise.

If I weren't making an ass of myself on Tele I'd be very tempted to make you an offer for them.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
creedgearoid, almost impossible to suggest without knowing your technical level and usual/aspired terrain, but I'd guess you should be looking for something with some or all of somewhat narrower, more flexible and smaller ski radius. Now is a good time to sell skis ie early in season. Checking ebay and current new price will help you work out a realistic sale price.

arcadioV, imo lots of people who could benefit from developing fundamental steering skills are held back by skiing skis too stiff, too long a ski radius or too wide. However if they're not trying to develop these ie can't be bothered/feel they've gotten as far as they need to do the skiing they want, then it's not really an issue.
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Quote:

Most intermediate level skiers are still using skidded turns to a greater or lesser extent which mean that the stiffer skis will make them more prone to catching an edge. They may also find that the skis feel very 'hooky' in the turns as they engage the tips.


Mu experience is exactly the same. I was given a pair of 180 Atomic GS skis at the hire shop last year (I'm 185cm and 85Kg), as I had gone for "premium" skis. I was on my face quite a bit in the first morning as I kept catching an edge as I wasn't "assertive" enough with the skis.

By the end of the week though it was great, especially when I overtook the entire group and ESF instructor on a really shallow slope where we were all shussing Happy Most people in the group came to a complete stop.
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