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Cross over and cross under turns

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Can somebody explain this to me please?

As I understand it: "cross over" is your normal sort of "start on an edge, let the board go straight, roll it onto the new edge" type affair.

WHAT, and HOW, and WHY is the other?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The short answer is that in cross-over turns your body moves over the board whereas in cross-under turns your body remains 'stationary' while the board moves underneath you.

Cross-over turns tend to be slower to initiate because you have to move your whole body over the board, whereas a cross-under turn can be more quickly initiated with ankles/knees etc.
Imagine a quick succession of turns - it'll be quite hard to do this if your body has to swing back and forth over the board.

Please correct me if any of that doesn't seem right.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I find it hard to visualize the difference, but I'm pretty sure that you automatically find yourself doing cross-under turns as soon as you're doing a quick succession of turns, as Mudkicker says. The quicker you go, the more natural it is to "swing" your legs underneath your upper body than to move your upper body from one side of the board to the other (which would be more tiring, and probably wouldn't keep up with the speed you're trying to maintain and hence you would struggle to control that speed).
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For 'cross under' imagine kicking the board back so that you are now much more ahead and downhill of the board. Once in this position, the turn cannot be avoided as you are weighting the front downhill corner of the board. The board will then come road and back under you, for you to once again fall past it and initiate the next turn.

Cross under is my preferred turn on very steep blacks. They smooth out your head's speed, albeit that your feet still accelerate through the fall line almost as much as they would normally.

If you get it controlled so you barely let the board catch up with you (not really a cross under any more) you can ride edge to edge with a transition every second, controlling your speed in a path no wider than your board is long and always ready to make one of the transitions a hockey stop, if you needed to.

It's useful technique in mild couloirs.

McNab's video and book show the technique very well.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
It sounds like a recipe for an edge-catch face-smash pain-o-thon to me. Just reading about it is giving me the willies.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
Cross unders very useful in moguls. I'd venture to say that the reason lots of boarders moan about moguls is they don't know what a cross under turn is (even if its intuitive rather than formal understanding).
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
paulio, I think I passed my Mcnab book to Rob@rar, feel free to borrow it.

to be honest, depending upon how steep and how big the moguls are, I think I do a mish mash of a front weighed foot chuck the back around over, rear weighted foot and chuck the front around over, and nothing weighted and chuck it all over, swapping from switch to regular as the mogul dictates.

Basically I have no idea Very Happy
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I've got the McNab book, if we're talking about the same one. It's because of it that I'm asking the question, as I can't make toe nor heel of it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
paulio, I found it similarly confusing watching the video at the same time as reading the book and even seemingly having done similar turns myself Puzzled , but I think it was all about steeps, and crossing the rear of the board over/above the snow rather than skidding it around, i.e. lifting the rear over the ground.

But as I said, from memory, I sort of went 'eh? what was that?' and then had a cup of tea instead Very Happy
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
paulio wrote:
I've got the McNab book, if we're talking about the same one. It's because of it that I'm asking the question, as I can't make toe nor heel of it.


If it's "Bravo Two Zero" you've no chance.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Mudkicker, that's a pretty good description, better than I could have come up with.

paulio wrote:
It sounds like a recipe for an edge-catch face-smash pain-o-thon to me. Just reading about it is giving me the willies.


Unfortunately this is the usual consequence of progressing to decent cross under technique.

It is easier on a rocker, though, IMO, if you actually need another reason to buy one.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I can,t link the Bomberonline.com site but it a has well written cross over/crossunder/cross through artical under articals/tech on this very subject by Jack Michaud, also couple rise and fall photos.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Another way to think about it is leg extension (cross over) v retraction (cross under).
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Hi paulio cross over turns stand flat on your board at home where you are facing a wall and easy arm reach of wall. .now lean over the board toe edge to tip board on its toe edge. .hold onto the wall to steady yourself. . Basically you re using your body weight to tip board onto edge . . To go onto heal edge your body weight has to cross back over your board and continue until your on the heal edge. .at home have somethingor someone behind you to balance on heal edge. . To be continued. .
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
. . Continued. . Each time you cross over to an edge the boards shape does its magic and carves you round getting you away from the scary fall line. . As others have said moving your body over takes longer than cross under but you can get fast at it and I use this a lot on black runs and let the boards shape carve me up hill if I need to kill some speed. .this way I can have steady short medium or long sweeps going down the run. Note to keep your posture correct and front n back foot evenly weighted. .
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
. . Continued. . Cross under turns if you can find 2 strong people to hold you upright taking your weight upon them thats a good start. .now again strapped onto your board move your lower body to place board on am edge and then the other edge and repeat. . You should notice how your upper body is not crossing over the boardto get it on am edge but the board is crossing under youand going on edge. . These movements make for very quick edge changes quick and choppy almost also kills speed and for narrow. .
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
. .continued. . Narrow runs or if you need to dodge around something quickly. .which is about the only time I use it Happy I hope this has helped if not just get admin to delete my posts Happy
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Very good and detailed explanation 'Snowflo' explaining a skill or a technique is very difficult to do and the reasons for using each variation is very good as as well. When I first started riding i was very much a cross under rider as i think most people are. It's a reaction to keep your speed down rather than to control a turn (In the early days of riding) and can be seen as snatchy and messy as most early riders just whip the tail out. This is bad technique but a lot of early riders adopt it due to fear of speed. As confidence grows turns become longer and less snatchy. I had my first lesson on a snowboarding camp after 5 years of riding and was taught unweighted turns (straightening your legs very quickly before the turn taking all the weight from your board and almost hovering above the snow just before the turn and then switching to the other edge quickly) it's a very quick turn and is a mix of cross over and cross under. My riding improved 500% and really understood what i was doing and why i was doing it. I also love carving now and riding at high speed, but use unweighted turns more when riding through narrow passes and through tree lines. one tip which improved my riding most was on my toe edge, push your hips out, it improves core balance and forces the toes edge into the snow. The opposite of this is just leaning over your toe edge, your body will bend, you will lose balance and the turn will not carve. My opinion is that a cross under turn is an 'unweighted turn' and a cross over turn is more a 'carving style'. Both good techniques for use in different conditions.
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