On the Bellevarde as well, so not exactly deep back country.
Anyone know who the instructor was/which company?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
given the weather this week, i really struggle to understand why you'd be gagging to get offpiste in a couloir. Seems pretty reckless to an un-avalnche trained skier like me. Freezing level through the roof, widespread rain and snowpack instability....not exactly confidence inspiring conditions to head into the back-country for me....?
Just glad they appear to be alive at least and fingers crossed for the boarder to pull through.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
According to http://www.pistehors.com/ it was in the Couloir des Pisteurs on the north face of the Charvet.
skinutter, while its difficult to know what conditions are like on any specific slope, I would tend to agree that recent conditions would have made it unwise to be off piste yesterday. I for one would have stuck to the piste until the colder temps had a bit more time to settle the snow.
Dr John,
Quote:
On the Bellevarde as well, so not exactly deep back country.
have to say it again, off piste is off piste regardless
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Adrian wrote:
According to http://www.pistehors.com/ it was in the Couloir des Pisteurs on the north face of the Charvet.
Kenzie, certainly looks it. I thought it was on the easy slopes on the main Bellevarde hill, apparently not.
livetoski, agreed.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The photo, while taken from Bellevard is of Charvet (perhaps Bellevard MASSIF is indicative of some imprecision). The Couloir des Pisteurs is very steep and requires a long walk along the ridge to get to it. You are, however, very much grandstanding for anyone near the bottom of the Santons lift.
Interesting that it was an instructor rather than a proper guide. I wonder if the guides were avoiding it.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Since I posted above, http://www.pistehors.com/ has added a photo showing the location of the couloir. Perhaps that is the photo that snowball refers to.
as a general rule in these open couloirs it is important to stay in the main axis of a couloir and not ski on the sides where the snowpack is thinner and weaker and where slabs can form
which seems counter intuitive to me, but my knowledge of these matters is small. Often when skiing with a guide we have been instructed to keep to the side of a wide slope, to ski near the rocky edges, and not spread out towards the centre of the slope. Perhaps the general advice changes with a narrow slope such as in a couloir.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
No, sorry, I was talking through my back bottom - I saw a very small photo and miss-read it. (However what I said WOULD have been true of the pistehors photo)
Incidentally I think you have to sign on to see the photo and report on pistehors - or possibly this may take you there: http://pistehors.com/news/forums/viewthread/722/
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 11-12-10 1:08; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Adrian wrote:
Since I posted above, http://www.pistehors.com/ has added a photo showing the location of the couloir. Perhaps that is the photo that snowball refers to.
as a general rule in these open couloirs it is important to stay in the main axis of a couloir and not ski on the sides where the snowpack is thinner and weaker and where slabs can form
which seems counter intuitive to me, but my knowledge of these matters is small. Often when skiing with a guide we have been instructed to keep to the side of a wide slope, to ski near the rocky edges, and not spread out towards the centre of the slope. Perhaps the general advice changes with a narrow slope such as in a couloir.
They're probably not mutually exclusive bits of advice. As with everything I've read dealing with avalanches, it depends.
Shallow snow is inherently weaker, and shallow snow will have a greater temperature gradient across it meaning weak snow layers are more likely to form. But if the guide knows that the underlying ground next to the edge of a couloir is very uneven, and will anchor the base well, it might be more prudent to ski there.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
hum3 wrote:
Adrian wrote:
Since I posted above, http://www.pistehors.com/ has added a photo showing the location of the couloir. Perhaps that is the photo that snowball refers to.
as a general rule in these open couloirs it is important to stay in the main axis of a couloir and not ski on the sides where the snowpack is thinner and weaker and where slabs can form
which seems counter intuitive to me, but my knowledge of these matters is small. Often when skiing with a guide we have been instructed to keep to the side of a wide slope, to ski near the rocky edges, and not spread out towards the centre of the slope. Perhaps the general advice changes with a narrow slope such as in a couloir.
They're probably not mutually exclusive bits of advice. As with everything I've read dealing with avalanches, it depends.
Shallow snow is inherently weaker, and shallow snow will have a greater temperature gradient across it meaning weak snow layers are more likely to form. But if the guide knows that the underlying ground next to the edge of a couloir is very uneven, and will anchor the base well, it might be more prudent to ski there.
Suppose it also depends when a "small couloir" becomes and open slope.....
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
45 minutes of cardio-pulmonary arrest doesn't sound hopeful for complete recovery.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
It seems quite incredible to have been in this type of location on Thursday.
The snowpack would have been very unstable given that it was raining at over 1850m on Wednesday.
The temperature gradient tends to give rise to depth hoar and this will occur faster in shallow snow packs with very low temperatures of a period of time. It would appear that this was probably a wet slab.
It's already been a bad start to the winter with 3 killed in the Haute Maurienne, 3 in the Chartreuse and another somewhere else.
If the guy was in cardiac arrest for 45 mins he's going to have lost a lot of brain cells - so not a good prognosis.
Mark
ex-Glencoe MRT and Mountaineering Instructor
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Agreed, doing Couloir des Pisteurs on Thursday seems like utter madness. I live just down the road in Sainte Foy and I wasn't in any rush to venture much further than my bedroom this week.
I have a real soft spot for Couloir des Pisteurs. Did it on one of my first ever "proper" off-piste days about 10 years ago.
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Poster: A snowHead
