anarchicsaltire, What sort of time-scales are we talking, I'm guess most recreational skiers won't have enough time in their boots to make much difference?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
tiffin, I wore my 'correcting shoes' every day. (Corrected my knock knees, but I got teased at school, so perhaps my psyche got damaged!)
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
tiffin, You really have to start the work before you even get into the ski boots, just trying to correct for when you ski will have limited benefit unless you spend a lot of time skiing. So optimise the structure and work on the muscle balance before you are skiing, then incorperate it into skiing. Time depends on the underling problem, severity, cause, range of movement, age, fitness, skill / activity level and footwear etc. You can get significant improvement in a few days or weeks if you work at it but everyone is different and some problems take longer. If you want something to instantly correct problems without any effort you need to buy one of those magic hologram thingies.
NB I am not an expert in ski boots or 'ski' biomechanics.
anarchicsaltire, the physio said abductors should only take weeks maybe months to get really good muscle balance. but of course as you rightly point like anything to do with fitness is very personal
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
skimottaret, By and large you can start to get benefits from structural alignment changes quite quickly (if it's right). For muscles a few weeks is reasonable, ligamentous change takes longer...months. I see a significant number with knock knees who are hypermobile which slows matters further. You have to put effort in, the more you put in the more you get out like anything in life. Also men are easier to treat than women for most structural problems simply because of footwear (other than ski boots).
What most people actually need to do is learn to ski well...
I do ski well thank you, not too far off my L3! However, this is (one of not the only) relatively minor issues stopping me making those changes needed to get there, that all but experts would probably hardly notice ...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
First of all, let's remember that the most important thing is what your skis are doing. Not how your knees look.
BASI, at least the more enlightened BASI trainers, has started recognising that.
I say that as an inverterate A-framer.
DaveC wrote:
A good way to fix muscle imbalance is to conciously not do it, and the imbalance is forced to correct itself too. This happens with posture pretty quickly and noticably. I've argued this before against the "but I can't ski centred because I need special ski boots/bindings/alignment/canting" complaint and had no success though...
DaveC, as much as I like you my friend I have to say that if one more person tries to fix my A-frame by telling me to "try harder" or "just pull that knee across" then I'm going to lady's front bottom them.
I can no sooner fix 40-odd years of muscle imbalance and consequential ligament imbalance by just manning up (or womaning up) than an unfit person can run a marathon without training.
I'm with skimottaret's physio. But years of muscle inblanance takes time to fix. And I know it works because, after six months of focus in the gym, I'm starting to see improvements in my alignment.
Another 4-5 years should crack it.
Until then there's bootfitters and alignment...
After all it is free
After all it is free
beanie1, FlyingStantoni, I'm not saying that there aren't physical barriers to skiing correctly that do require external correction, and FlyingStantoni took me to Cham on my first season to see SZK because my boots were agony - took about a year to realise that correct orthotics and a better fitting boot solved that. But, you're saying that you have muscle imbalance that requires training to fix - this is pretty different to the correct blend of alignment/canting etc. You've probably had a lot of work done on your equipment to try and help this fundamental issue though, and it's probably helped - but I bet actually fixing the muscle imbalance will be a lot more beneficial?
Let's be fair, two high level BASI 2s are in a much better position to analyse their own biomechanics than the average skier, too. I didn't say that it's totally pointless, I just can't see how every single person has managed to have their own biomechanical nightmare that can only be fixed with the perfect fit of boots and bindings.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
On the otherhand some biomechanical anomolies can be a benefit for some sports
I can't help but think of Muttiah Muralidaran's bendy arm - certainly helped him a bit.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
DaveC,
Quote:
You've probably had a lot of work done on your equipment to try and help this fundamental issue though,
Actually, I haven't had any, as until I reached the level I am now where precision is so important, it's not been much of an issue. I'm trying to fix the problem first, but if that doesn't work will look at equipment.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
beanie1, I meant the stantonini to be honest...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
beanie1, I think that for me just making the initial boot alignment changes helped to change my biomechanics, feeling that something was different seems to have helped change what my knee ligaments are doing, I have made fewer changes with my current boots than the previous pair.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
My friend anny is one of the most knock kneed skiers I know
but most of the women I ski with suffer from it to some extent. At least it keeps their skis apart.
I blame their upbringing, still what do you expect in a Catholic country?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ultimately it's to do with women having wider hips than men isn't it (for childbirth) and hence the angle the thigh joins the hip?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I wish there was something I could do to fix my knock knees. I just checked in the mirror - feet a hip's width apart; bend knees forward keeping feet flat on floor; knees go together. Bend knees forward keeping knees apart, feet supinate.
I can't tell whether it's because of the ankles supinating or the angle of my hip joint. I've had by boots shimmed which helps keeping the ski sole flatter to the snow but I think I'm just cursed to always A-frame. It does however mean I can carve easily on my outside edges.
I blame their upbringing, still what do you expect in a Catholic country?
gotta remember to use that one !! (to client: "You have a bit of an A-frame that we can work on reducing today during your lesson, have you considered having your boots set up as this could help?" i see already had that done, do you play other sports?, perhaps did a lot of horse riding? no ... Hmmm do you attend mass regularly?
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
After six months with a personal trainer I can know do squats without my knees bending in. We do strength training for glutes as well as quads and hamstrings. Hopefully my skiing will be better for it.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Also, could it not be harmful to your muscles/ligaments etc by adjusting your foot alignment in your boots before you have conditioned said muscles to the new position?
After all it is free
After all it is free
And...as a horse rider, it isn't knee gripping that can cause issues with skiing - it's the continual use of the adductor muscle (inside the leg) and lack of use of the hip abductor. (I think I've got them the right way around ) The hip abductor can be strengthened by doing balancing exercises etc. (From my limited knowledge). Good horse riding needs a strong core, relaxed legs, relaxed arms.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
FlyingStantoni wrote:
First of all, let's remember that the most important thing is what your skis are doing. Not how your knees look.
BASI, at least the more enlightened BASI trainers, has started recognising that.
I say that as an inverterate A-framer.
DaveC wrote:
A good way to fix muscle imbalance is to conciously not do it, and the imbalance is forced to correct itself too. This happens with posture pretty quickly and noticably. I've argued this before against the "but I can't ski centred because I need special ski boots/bindings/alignment/canting" complaint and had no success though...
DaveC, as much as I like you my friend I have to say that if one more person tries to fix my A-frame by telling me to "try harder" or "just pull that knee across" then I'm going to lady's front bottom them.
I can no sooner fix 40-odd years of muscle imbalance and consequential ligament imbalance by just manning up (or womaning up) than an unfit person can run a marathon without training.
I'm with skimottaret's physio. But years of muscle inblanance takes time to fix. And I know it works because, after six months of focus in the gym, I'm starting to see improvements in my alignment.
Another 4-5 years should crack it.
Until then there's bootfitters and alignment...
+1
Examples of competent skiers after misalignment using shims.
A CSIA L4 friend is overrcanted in one leg and does suffer from the wobbly leg syndrome prior to boot alignment. He is a pretty good skier and all-round athlete so we can probably discount 'Lack of Moral Fibre' as the issue!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
frightening amount of knee wobble on skier 2 yikes.. how did he ever get his L4 badge with that?
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
skimottaret wrote:
frightening amount of knee wobble on skier 2 yikes.. how did he ever get his L4 badge with that?
These aren't him, just some vids I came across a while ago, he was fully aligned when getting his level 4!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DaveC wrote:
I think internet based hypochondria is a big issue for Snowheads though - I think maybe 10% of the instructors I've worked with have even had correctly fitted boots, and they seem to ski pretty well. If you spend a lot of time on a forum with people educated in the benefits of it, and lots of expert knowledge bandied around, it's easy to decide you definitely must have x y and z to ski well. What most people actually need to do is learn to ski well...
I have some sympathy for this POV and I only really notice my misalignment on groomers but it isn't ideal having to compensate. I will get my alignment fixed for my current boots eventually because I know it will make life easier. I'm not proud!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
It does however mean I can carve easily on my outside edges.
) The hip abductor can be strengthened by doing balancing exercises etc. (From my limited knowledge). Good horse riding needs a strong core, relaxed legs, relaxed arms.
