 Poster: A snowHead
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I've had a North Face jacket for a few years now and when I wear it in the rain it doesn't repel the water as it used to and seems to "absorb" it.
Now my understanding of waterproof and breathable jackets is that there is a membrane within its layers that does not allow water droplets through but allows the passing of water vapour. So does the use of products such as Nikwax just make the outside of the jacket repel water and not affect the waterproof membrane? Do these products work or is it best just to leave the jacket as it is?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What material is your jacket made from?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SCollier1, Nikwax primarily cleans the garment with the added benefit of adding water repellency to the fabric. Ideally it would be better to leave it untouched, but as it gets dirty the soiling reduces the effectiveness of the fabric in terms of it's breathability and water repelency far more.
Try and keep the garment clean and wash it as infrequently as possible, every wash reduces the fabric's effectiveness.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've very much a layman's view but have been through enough outdoor kit to know what I believe in. Different waterproofing "brands" use different technologies. For Goretex the membrane doesn't provide water repellency which is determined by the surface fabric. As it gets older that fabric loses its ability to bead water which soaks in closer to the membrane and the membrane itself "wets out". I've never quite known whether you subsequently get wet from water getting in or from sweat no longer being able to get out but restoring that surface repellency seems to help.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Once you reproof the outer face fabric iron it.. this gives a good water repellant surface.
fatbob, A sodden face fabric will limit the ability of the material to transport moisture from the warmer temperature inner climate.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I've had a North Face jacket for a few years now and when I wear it in the rain it doesn't repel the water as it used to and seems to "absorb" it.
Now my understanding of waterproof and breathable jackets is that there is a membrane within its layers that does not allow water droplets through but allows the passing of water vapour
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Goretex jackets have a membrane like this, but once 'wetted out' they lose most of the breatahbility, so you can get wet/damp from your sweat. Nikwax will help prevent the material getting 'wetted out.'
DWR jackets have a waterproof layer added to the outside, which can wear off with time and use. Nikwax should help replace/refresh this layer.
I think.
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wot the others said. Tumble drying on a low heat can also help resuscitate the surface water repellent.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SCollier1, I use both Nikwax products, blue cap and green cap, ones a cleaner and the other is a reppelent or what ever technical name you want to give it. I put them in the washing machine on a gentle low heat setting for 2 washes, 1 with each product, then tumble dry afterwards on a low heat
The first is suppossed to clean out the fabric pores which helps with the breathing, apparently normal fabric cleaners can block these up, the second just helps keep it waterproof.
I've tried the other spray and sponge on products but find that bits tend to get missed or it rubs off after use as they leak usually between the thighs on my trousers.
Works for me with my Hyvent jacket and Sprayway trousers, both of which are several years old and stand up to Scottish rain longer than I'm willing to 
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Goretex - wash with a detergent that rinses out well... Nikwax, Sportwash, etc If you must use a laundry detergent it should be powdered and no enzymes/beads of bleach etc
Wash regularly to get sweat/oils from your skin out of membrane - they clog it up
Iron/tumble dry after wash to reset DWR. Reapply DWR as needed (I don't use wash in as I don't like the idea of water repellency on the INSIDE layer of my goretex jacket that much.)
eVent I believe is similar to the Goretex but less prone to sweat problems
Others check the care labels - my friend trashed her Entrant jacket by washing it thinking it was Goretex... seems Entrant dislikes washing as it lost waterproofing after a wash she tells me - she says you could see the spray on stuff inside(supposed to create a membrane) ball up and go blah
Not all waterproof/breathables are the same and some that claim waterproof/breathable are not membranes really...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If you use the Nikwax re-proofer, surely it is going to waterproof the inside of the jacket as well as the outside????
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| If you use the Nikwax re-proofer, surely it is going to waterproof the inside of the jacket as well as the outside???? |
If you use the appropriate one, then you are actually applying (I think) a new DWR to the fabric.
What you have is a 'waterproof, breathable membrane'. This is 'waterproof' however clean or dirty, since it is impermeable to liquid water (like a plastic bag) but is only 'breathable' as long as it is clean since dirt and sweat block up the pores. If the jacket face has wetted out, that can also block the pores, preventing vapour passing through, so the facing fabric needs a 'durable water repellant' to encurage the water to ball and roll off, allow the membrane to breathe. I guess a DWR on the inside would actually help, since it would prevent the inside from wetting out too.
Commonly, when people think their waterproof is leaking, it is actually not leaking, but something has happened to prevent vapour passing through the layer - wetting out (either side), no temperature gradient across the fabric (needs to be colder outside than in) or dirt. These things a quick wash and reproof will sort out.
When washing, it pays to follow the clothing manufacturer's instructions, since many common detergents are designed to prevent the very thing the DWR is meant to acheive, to ensure that the detergent penetrates the fabric - if you use normal detergent, then the new DWR applied will not work, which is why Nikwax, and others, sell appropriate soaps to be used prior to reproofing.
Hope that helps . . .
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If your goretex gloves get wet then do not wring them out as that can force water through the goretex layer and make its little holes into bigger holes.
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