 Poster: A snowHead
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| saikee wrote: |
| Skiing wise Austria has better snow and less people. |
I've been skiing for more than 30 years and know a lot of people in the ski industry who have very much more experience than me. However, you're the only person I know who would make such a sweeping comment writing off the skiing of entire countries 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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plenty of rather confused points there, for example about market days (the ones I know aren't Saturdays, which is the best day to vow NEVER to be out on the roads near ski resorts) and about the lack of French lift passes for wider areas. There are plenty of good places in all the ski countries, and plenty of not so good ones - it all depends what you want, and kind of ambiance you like. That's why we are all asking lots of questions. One man's gemuetlich village is another man's claustrophobic hell. One woman's cosy home in the mountains is another woman's grotty hovel. 
Colin Bell, is Lech too expensive for a season? If Lech would be the ideal base, then I guess you're looking for a village much more than a town - not been there, but from pictures Lech looks fairly small - certainly a fair bit smaller than Megeve or St Gervais. It looks beautiful. It's not far from Innsbruck, is it? We don't find driving to Geneva to get family and friends to be a big chore - and usually combine the trip with a big supermarket shop in Sallanches. The beauty of having your own place is that visitors don't have to come on busy weekends - make sure you're near an airport with good flight choices, from a range of UK airports and all days of the week. Geneva scores highly on that criterion (though not on many others, unless you want to buy a watch )
If cosy village atmosphere and beautiful walks on the doorstep are important I'd forget places like Sallanches, Bourg St Maurice etc. On the other hand, there are quite a lot of pretty villages, with easy access to skiing - if not with quite the same cachet as Lech. Combloux, for example. An hour from Geneva, pretty village, gorgeous scenery. Their website gives you a good idea though - like all websites - it leaves out the less appealing aspects, like the main road, which is quite busy! http://www.combloux.com/
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar,
Just personal observation after skiing 30 resorts in Austria and another 30 in France.
If you look at the Austria resorts you will have a job to find the high density big multistorey apartment blocks that dominates many French resorts. Austrian resorts are generally smaller and they don't have infrstructure nor the willingness to enlarge their resorts to mega size for the big influx of visitors.
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saikee, a small minority of French resorts are dominated by big high density apartment blocks. There are hundreds which aren't.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w,
Agree.
However just the French there are hundred of small resorts in Switzerland and Austria that no UK skiers know about or able to get a TO to book them there. So on average one can escape from the crowd in any country if one is prepared to be selective.
One feature that isn't common in Austria resort and that is a skiing instructors leading a long queue of children snaking around a resort. It is almost a French thing. There are signficantlly less children in the large Switzerland and Austrian resorts. Their children are in large number in the minority resorts not visited by the international skiers.
I believe the French promote their children to use the slopes at a greatly discounted or no cost. Many come in as the whole class and not with individual families on regular visits. I wouldn't be surprise the French conduct their PE lessons on the slope in some villages.
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| Quote: |
I wouldn't be surprise the French conduct their PE lessons on the slope in some villages.
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They certainly do - I've always thought that being able to do skiing rather than lacrosse would be great. Don't Austrian and Swiss kids do PE lessons on the slopes?
As for Austrian resorts not having groups of kids in ski lessons, I find that bizarre. My three kids all snaked round Austrian resorts with instructors, as did I.
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pam w,
I am sure there are instructors taking kids around the resort in Austria and Switzerland but that is not a common sight as in France. When I visited small minor resorts I found they can be very busy with children and beginners in Austria. I believe it is more to do with cost as smaller resorts, with less number of lifts, cannot charge the same rate as the large resorts. To a beginner any mild slope will do so why pay the top dollar for a large resort one cannot possibly benefit from it.
The UK skiers however are in a different boat. They choose a resort that the TO recommends and more features and bigger are better. Would a UK skier like to explain to his/her peers that the French resort Praz Sur Arly is a great place to ski? What's wrong with the Megeve at one end or Les Saisies at the other end of the same road?
If the Austrian conduct their PE lessons on the slope then there must be not a lot of school age kids in places like Ischg or they go to the smaller places like See, Kappl or Galtur in the same valley. It is the same situation in many places in Switzerland too.
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Samerberg Sue,
In term of shopping, night life in the city and many various activities I personally prefer the relaxing way of the French.
Getting a baguette from a baker in the morning, stock up in a hypermarket and visiting the market on market day are the same elsewhere in the Alps. The French has many centre d'Commercial at the ring road of a city. They are easy to find and do offer a huge amount of choices for shopping. If one want to renew the skis, clothing or the snowboard my experience is the prices in France are competitive as well as offering a bigger range.
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| pam w wrote: |
| As for Austrian resorts not having groups of kids in ski lessons, I find that bizarre. My three kids all snaked round Austrian resorts with instructors, as did I. |
Ditto. Maybe we were the exceptions and all Austrian instruction for kids is done one to one?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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saikee, The kids that I see in the Val d'Arly doing PE lessons are not locals, they are from Albertville and Annecy.
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| Samerberg Sue wrote: |
I grew up and lived in France and am half French - maybe that's why I do not see everything through the same rose-tinted and mortgage-loaded specs as some of you  |
Should we make sweeping generalisations about the entire country which run counter to our experience simply because we are property owners there?
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You know it makes sense.
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I never thought for one moment that the kids in the classes our kids did in Austria were local. The majority were probably German, I'd guess - certainly the language was mostly German and one instructor spoke no English at all, not that it mattered much with a 4 year old.
I don't think I see France through rose-tinted specs at all and I try not to make sweeping generalisations about anywhere though I find it difficult not to respond when people say such dopey things as "you don't see ski school snakes of kids in Austria" And I don't have a mortgage.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Samerberg Sue,
Thanks for the confirmation. I do find the Swiss and Austrian ski as a recreational sport. They do it whenever there is a free week end or some days off driving to the resorts they like. This is different many UK, German and Dutch skiers treating skiing as an annual holiday staying at one place, skiing hard, and drinking hard for the entire week.
Thus it explains why it is hard to Austrian kids following a skiing instructors snaking round the Austrian resorts.
I know Centre d'Commercial isn't everyone's cup of tea but it would be fair to say the French do them in a big way well before the out-of-town-shopping was caught on in UK.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I suppose no Austrians or Swiss live too far from a nice ski resort. French skiers who live local to resorts do the same - we get loads of locally registered cars parked up by the chairlift at weekends. But if you live in Normandy, or Hamburg, or Southampton, or the Hague, that's not really too practical is it, having a Sunday on the slopes and a nice lunch? It's just geography, really. And whatever the nationality of the snakes of kids, they're still a pain when you're a beginner snowboarder trying not to mow them down.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There are plenty of kids in ski groups around Austria during the winter. They are easy to pick out by the race gear they are wearing. 
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I love watching the ski club kids - usually at weekends. When they are doing their race training they generally close off the relevant piste to mere mortals, but some of them are in good view of the chairlifts.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, if money for rent were no object would somewhere like Zermatt be an option if, as they say, its the one place to ski before you die?!
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Colin Bell, I've not been to Zermatt but there are loads of fans on Snowheads who know it very well. It's not really one of the places I'd have top of my list if I didn't have my own apartment (whereas Lech is!). I'm not a good enough skier to take advantage of Zermatt's off piste and I like lower key towns with more convenient skiing. I think I'd prefer to visit Zermatt in summer, actually. I like the idea of having the Matterhorn on the doorstep though I'm pretty fond of Mont Blanc, too, which I can see from my terrace (and much of the ski area).
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Colin Bell, it's a wonderful place to be if money is not object (it would need to be ), and plenty of things for your wife to do, including taking some of the pedestrian friendly lifts up the mountain to meet you for lunch. Some good ski schools there as well so you might be able to tempt her with a bit of skiing...
Only possible downside is that you, or perhaps your wife, might get a little stir crazy in the resort if you're there week after week after week. But it's easy enough to get down the valley on the excellent Swiss railways, so you can escape to normality every now and again.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Got any of that popcorn left?
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flangesax, no we spat the last out laughing! You finished all the cakes yet? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Colin Bell, as you have some time to plan (not planning this season for a bit....) you can have fun using a few ski holidays to scout out the possibilities. You know Lech already. Have a week in Zermatt, a week in Innsbruck, a week in St Gervais, a week in Kitzbuhel, etc etc.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Zermatt does have top notch skiing terrain, as there are others with bigger and more extensive facilities in the Alps, and I never saw anyone doing off piste from Matterhorn but the town is a car fee zone and every visitor must ride a train to get there.
It is one of the few resorts that you can ride a full size train to the top of the run to ski down.
Stay in the town is always expensive because of its restriction. To ski it is another matter because you can go up from the Italian side of Breuil Cervinia which is a lot cheaper and even affordable if you are prepared to stay say within a 20 miles travelling radius of Cervinia. When one goes from Cervinia to Zermatt it is just 2 gondolas and one cable car rides and you are almost at the top of Zermatt before you put on the skis first time.
Zermatt is very well kept because people go there both in summer and winter and so the infrastructure is second to none. It is not a big place to ski if you exclude Cervinia.
I suppose many associate place like Zermatt, St Anton/Lech, Cortina D'Ampezzo, Ischgl, St Moritz, Vail,, Aspen... etc with seeing people enjoying the better quality of life because one has to be very rich to own a property there. Zermatt claims its position being the only one that is totally car free, has a cable car reaching the highest piste in the Alps and has mountain top wash rooms at a standard that can put many international airports to shame. That face that you can see a big piece of rock called the Matterhorn is just incidental.
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You know it makes sense.
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We're certainly not committing to Lech but since we know the place reasonably well, I contacted the information centre to ask how we might go about finding accommodation. They couldn't help, but I noticed from the website that there are a number of privately owned houses offering rooms and apartments. I spotted one with two bedrooms, kitchen etc over 75m2 in a house with other rooms for two and a smaller appartment. Prices were given for all except the larger apartment, which probably means we can't afford it! However, it does occur to me that in a popular resort, apartments like this might be booked (or earmarked) by regulars for certain times of the season years in advance. Perhaps Stanton's knowledge and experience might help here?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Colin Bell, if you've stayed in Lech a few times it might be worth asking the people you stayed with if they can suggest anything - from comments here it seems that hoteliers etc in Austria do value their returning clients, so you might get some useful leads that way. But the fact that the information centre can't help with accommodation does rather suggest they're in a sellers market!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Another vote for Briancon / Serre Chevalier as a base
Last couple of years we've done 5 weeks there, next year six weeks.
I won't repeat what has has already been mentioned as Briancon ticks many boxes, especially for a non skier - although we stay up in Villeneuve
Season Ski Pass if booked before Dec 1 is 25 % off at 613 Euro instead of 818 if you're going to do a couple of weeks in various locations you're lift pass expenditure will rocket.
As you are that far further South getting to Marseillles is only two and a half hours.
And fancy a change of atmosphere, go and ski in Italy which is 30 mins away - it really is bizarre the difference between Frenchies and Italians in a resort - they (Italians) do tend to seem to enjoy life more, ok maybe they're just louder
We too have friends coming out and there's a good selection of flights to both Turin & Grenoble - Turin is better as it's closer and both BA & EasyJet as opposed to Ryan Air Nazis, and you can wait for the flights etc in fab little piazza with loads of cafes in a town 5 mins from the airport
And for us we find Briancon / Serre so much more relaxed and unpretentious - no knobs!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
they (Italians) do tend to seem to enjoy life more, ok maybe they're just louder
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and maybe they're "better" dressed in that - whatever you think of the outcome - they spend a lot more time and money on it. Especially the blokes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| saikee wrote: |
| Skiing wise Austria has better snow and less people. |
I've been skiing for more than 30 years and know a lot of people in the ski industry who have very much more experience than me. However, you're the only person I know who would make such a sweeping comment writing off the skiing of entire countries |
Austria has better snow and less people.
But it also has less convenience, more walking, worse food, flatter slopes, and men in dungeons.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Samerberg Sue,
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the bread in France while very good is still limited in terms of the varieties compared with what you find elsewhere. I think even the UK traditional bakers offer more variety
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Agreed. I love France and am in essence half French (all my mother's family settled there) but I have yet to see too many French outlets that produce the variety and quality of bread that I see all over the place in the UK.
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Innsbruck or Salzburg would get my vote. Nice cities, and tons of skiing within easy travel - not to mention the area wide lift passes that work out very cheap.
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| Quote: |
I have yet to see too many French outlets that produce the variety and quality of bread that I see all over the place in the UK.
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I have yet to see any bakeries anywhere who make bread as good as I make, day in and day out. On the other hand I have no gift for pastry - and the hand made chocolates and patisserie are pretty special, in most of Europe, not just France.
One of the things we liked about Les Saisies when we first went there was the complete and utter unselfconscious disregard of any kind of fashion or one-upmanship. People wear one-piece suits not with any sense of irony, but because they see no point in spending good money to replace something just because a lot of Brits (who mostly can't ski for toffee) think they're uncool.
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Colin Bell, I did it a few years ago (before I was 60 .. ahem) and it really has to depend upon what you want to get out of it. Having a non-skiing wife has to be part of that.
Perhaps your first consideration should be life for the OH and your language of choice. There is plenty of snow in French, German and Italian areas and the obsession with the next snowfall is of little relevance when you have all season to play with.
In our case a "Real Town" with locals was important and I chose to avoid the Purpose-Built resorts ... but then again if you need an English Pub and all that goes with it your choices will be different.
We wanted a real ski town and a 'change' from a French lifestyle so chose Saanen in Gstaad Super-ski but access to airports was important at the time.... we just struck lucky.
Wherever you choose do go and spend a few days there before the ski season starts as that will be the culture and the people you will be living with.
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Even our little Monetier bakery has a good selection.
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