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Woman's Boot for High Volume and Large Calves!!!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
All,

could really do with some advice on behalf of 52 year old mum who is desperate to ski with her granddaughters. The background is took her on family ski holiday last year - her first time on snow. Turned up in La Plagne and encountered problems straight away as figured rental boots fine to see if she enjoyed it. At hire shop they could not find a pair of boots in her size (23.5) that would fit her (wide ish feet, high instep and large calves) she couldn't fasten any of the boots round her calf. Hire shop took easy way out - stuck her in bigger pair that sort of did up and she made do - though at one point did pop clean out of them on a green - which I'd never seen before! Though she was so proud of herself getting down a run unaided that she was over the moon!

Now to this year - she's desperate to come with us again for a couple of weeks. Figured only way to get round boot problem was taker her to try a few pairs on - as I'd suffered similar prob with boots until Profeet shoved me in a pair of Diablos. Therefore my natural instinct was to look around for some Tecnicas or Heads. However, I've struggled to find any Tecnicas in Scotland.

So to today - took her to her nearest local boot shops in Glasgow; Ellis Brigham and Blues @ Tiso. Explained problem to nice bloke in EB and asked if could try a couple of pairs for fit/size for a beginner and received a long spiel about taking particulars and it was a complicated process that took 2 hours. Never tried EB for boots before, but wife of 25 + years skiing and who intended to buy a new pair of advanced boots for herself today turned on her heel and walked off. Sale lost for EB. Mum also wanted to leave it - but I persisted and asked them to measure her and let her try a pair on - bloke brought back pair of Head Edge 10.5 (104 mm last) - tried on and she felt crippled, so gave up and left.

Had to pass Blues on way home - so popped in and left mum with boot fitters there, whilst I browsed the jackets. Came back to find her with a smile on her face and a pair of Head Edge 8.5s (also 104 mm last) on her feet - completely done up. After 5 mins though she complained that it felt as if her calves were being squashed so much that her feet were going numb. Took the boots off her - went and grabbed a pair of really thin boot liners, got her to put on and try again. She felt a lot better and feet didn't seem to go as numb. However from what I could see the boots were at limit - with no option to allow a bit more give by re-locating buckle catches and no micros. The guys at blue popped in a couple of heel wedges to raiser her calves slightly and this also seemed to assist - many thanks to the gents at Blues, she appreciated the way she was treated and felt that she was listened to!

Blues have said they can try and 'flare' the top of the boot slightly if she wants to buy them and the wedges helped. However, my experience of Head boots was exactly the same - I persevered with a pair of Head Edge's 5 years ago and was in so much pain was on verge of giving up skiing - until switched back to Tecnica. I was also given wedges and had boots looked at by fitters in Val D'Isere, Jackson and Whistler before binning them.

I'm now left with a quandary. The bootfitters out there will possibly laugh at this one, but my instinct tells me that as have the same genes and roughly similar build, I should risk ordering her a pair of Tecnica (looking at Phoenix Viva Mega 4 - 104 mm last) from one of the stockists in England to let her try as think they may well fit her out of the box and can have adjusted slightly in resort. Tecnica claim that the boot has several options for adjusting the boot's fit specifically for the calf area. Unfortunately I don't have the option of getting her to travel down south to try on in person.

To the boot specialists out there - any idea if Tecnica's claims regarding fit for the calf area are true - or at least would the Tecnica offer more potential to tweak the leg portion of the boot to get a better fit? Or should I just say go for the Head's and try and get the calf area of the boot blown/tweaked slightly and go with the heel wedges. Though part of me wonders if the wedges will simply place more pressure on another muscle/area and cause a different area to cramp up.

Sorry for such a long post, but difficult to simplify it. Any help/advice gratefully appreciated!

Thanks

SD
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
it sounds to me like you've had great service and advice already. This problem is rare and fixable. We all have ways of tackling it, had successes and prefer to start with a particular shell. In the past i've had great success by cooking the life out of Salomon X Waves and using one of our own spec liners. These days, dependant on other issues such as ankle flex, i tend to go with the Head Edge or Nordica Gran Sport, both again with heel wedges to help with flexion an to lift calf height and our own liners. I think (and to be honest i only skip read the post) that it sounds like youshould let the people at blues have their chance and doing the flare for you.
With regards to Tecnica, i cant say that any boot brand is any better here than any other. I use Head and Nordica, because they have a coller flaring system built in, they also do these 'basic boots' in high quality plastics and have quality buckles with massive adjustment, also, from my perspective the holes drilled for buckles match many others out there, Tecnica never do, so i have to drill more holes if i need to change buckles and sometimes they overlap, so it's a bit of a juggle.

Either way it's going to take trust and if you're correct, time and patience, the end result will be worth it.
Where will you ski this year?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi SD

Sounds like your mum is having a frustrating time. My limited knowledge on this is only because I have had a similar problem with large calves. I'm certainly not a boot-fitter but one will probably be along in a moment to give you an expert view, followed by another with with a different opinion.

My amateur view is that the answer is probably for her to find a boot that fits her foot well and then to deal with the calf issue by stretching/"flaring" the cuff. A large calf will otherwise push the leg forward too far and push her out of balance and cause quad burn. I would guess that heel wedges will probably exacerbate this so I suspect that your fears about them causing problems elsewhere are well founded. A standard, unmodified, boot that fits her calf will probably be too big in the foot - like her foot out of the boot rental experience.

I wouldn't advise buying boots mail order in the hope that they will fit. Every time that I've bought new boots I've never ended up with the ones that I thought would be a good fit on the basis of the manufacturer's literature/data.

If you scroll down this related thread you'll find someone's recommended bootfitters in Scotland.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=68061

Good luck !
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Smallzookeeper, thanks for reply - I've seen for myself how much Head's could be cooked with old pair of mine and was impressed. The problem I see here though, is that the buckles on the shin were at their limit and whilst its feasible enough that another hole could be drilled to move the buckle ratchet further across it really did look like that would leave a large gap between the tongue and the sides of the boot. Though I suppose flaring round the back of the boot could also address that.

I am a bit confused though reference Head having a collar flaring system built in. Could you please elaborate? As I've never heard of that before and didn't notice anything on the boot. Also, I was a bit worried reference the heel wedges as Snow Dog has said about possibility of quad burn - I experienced quad burn from hell when had my Heads with heel wedges fitted as I was always canted forward - have you had many customers experience this or is it more limited to likes of my family with big calves? Oh and hopefully taking her out to Vaujany for few weeks as friends recommended would be good for her, our young kids and hopefully some powder for me to play. Unfortunately I've never been there so don't know whats available locally.

Snow Dog, cheers for link - I never realised there was a fitter in Perth as well as couple of others didn't know of. Now if I can just convince her the drive may well be worth the effort!

Thanks

SD
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on the head ladies boots (hidden behind where the power strap attaches) are 2 allen key adjusted bolts, they allow the back of the cuff of the boot to flare back a bit to allow for a larger calf...

going to Snow_Dogs post, a heel lift if used correctly will not tip the body forward by much, what it will do is open the ankle joint a little allowing the skier to better use the range of motion available to them in that joint, it can also lift the calf out of the boot a little which can be a help with a larger calf mucle, as smallzookeeper has said there are lots of things that cna be done so no need to panic quite yet

liners can be cut, or replaced with heat mouldeable after market liners and clips can be moved on most boots, it sometimes just needs a bit of imagination as to what is going to be put where and a box of spare bits to adapt things with

good luck getting sorted
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Quote:
as Id suffered similar prob with boots until Profeet shoved me in a pair of Diablos. Therefore my natural instinct was to look around for some Tecnicas or Heads. However, I\'ve struggled to find any Tecnicas in Scotland.


Banks of Perth apparently stock Tecnica - only 50 mins drive from the central belt.
Would be worth a trip.

Also have wide-ish feet and high arches.
Tecnica boots just seem to fit my foot shape way better than anything else I have tried.
3 pairs in the last decade.

http://www.banksofperth.co.uk

Let us know how you get on Very Happy
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sd2010, You've certainly got some real expert advice so far. I also suffer from this problem, which was exacerbated by having relatively fine ankles and a narrow heel. I tried various solutions over the years, none of which quite worked and I was resigned to the fact that if I wanted to continue skiing it would have to be in some degree of discomfort. Last January I had a pair of Daleboots custom made and the problems are solved. Be aware that you will have to travel to get them fitted, there is only one fitter in the UK, in Oxfordshire. I had mine done in Kitzbuhel by the guy who owns the company. Be aware they are expensive ( 650 Euro) but IMHO well worth it.

http://www.daleboot.com/root.html
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
CEM - Thanks for info - I had a good look at the boot, but never thought to look under the strap - didn't even occur to me to think a beginner level boot would have something like that, shows how much I know!!! Big thank you to all who answered, I've learned a scary amount about how boots fit calves and ladies calves in particular last couple of days. Plan now to have mum back to bootfitters in December as I'm heading off for a while - but intend to sit back and not let my bias about boots affect outcome of what she gets fitted with!!! Will post up results for others info.

Haggis - ta - when researching wide calves - actually came across your thread ref Tecnica and Diablos. Right or wrong - sounds exactly like what I've encountered and I plan to hold on to my Diablos as long as possible. Though do admit Robboj's Daleboots look V interesting - but if missus catches me looking at them I may not be fit to ski this year Wink

SD
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My first boots were Head Edge 8.8's, I have a wide foot, high instep and again a huge calf. My fitter added a thin heel lift into my boots similar I think to those mentioned above. If it's any reassurance it solved my problem and I had no knock on effects in other areas from having it in the boots to my knowledge.
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The Head Edge's that she tried looked a really nice boot and just when I thought I could see her ending up in a pair of those and was planning to take her to boot shop once I'm back in Scotland to get her fitted she upset my plans. Comes home last night to tell me "wonderful news for you - I found a pair of boots at a shop today that were comfortable from word go (and right size 23.5) and fitted nicely round calf (though were on last buckle setting) and they're on sale as last year's model for 85 quid." Then tells me they are a pair of Nordica Olympia GS Easy 12s . Price was half what was expecting to pay for pair of boots for her.

Cynical son here tries to remain objective as she tried them on at a place I know as more of a sports shop as opposed to a ski/boot shop and I know absolutely nothing about Nordicas. Did a quick bit of research on net but found very little other than some websites describing them as a rear entry boot, which she was sure they weren't. If hadn't been for SMALL ZOOKEEPER saying that he reckoned it would come down to the Head Edge or the Nordica GS I would possibly have been dismissive of what she said. But before buy them for her does anyone else out there have any experience with Nordica Olympia Gran Sport easy 12s???
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sd2010, Rear entry boot... your mums right though huge amount of calf room, I wasn't a fan of them personally.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Anyone else tried Nordica Olympia GS Easy 12s?
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sd2010, I found this as a nearly first hit on Google - http://www.skiwarehouse.com/Nordica-Olympia-GS-Easy-12-Boots-P18193.aspx These don't obviously look rear entry from the picture do they? Or is it just me?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

Explained problem to nice bloke in EB and asked if could try a couple of pairs for fit/size for a beginner and received a long spiel about taking particulars


Interesting, seems someone at EB knows about fitting boots!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Megamum wrote:
sd2010, I found this as a nearly first hit on Google - http://www.skiwarehouse.com/Nordica-Olympia-GS-Easy-12-Boots-P18193.aspx These don't obviously look rear entry from the picture do they? Or is it just me?


Looked at same page other night and also figured don't look like rear entry and way they were described to me was not rear entry either as I understand it. Unfortunately I'm now 3000 miles from UK and can't get in to have a look at them personally.

Clarky - the guys at EB I couldn't fault in terms of what they were saying about what is required for fitting a boot and all of the factors the fitter requires to fit a boot. Unfortunately I just wanted to stick boots on my mum to have a quick look to see what they were like round the calf without any tweaking prior to booking her for a fitting - they didn't quite understand that, despite me telling them several times and explaining problems had encounteted in previous year - it was a case of we need to fill in this form etc etc. Fair enough if that is standard procedure - but like said before - wife also wanted a quick try of a few pairs she'd had in mind for a while so could book for when next back in UK and the rigmarole just put her off.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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sd2010, but fitting boots is a rigmarole. I think EB were doing the right thing.

Getting it fitting your foot is the first criteria; dealing with large calves is a much easier shell stretching issue.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mosha - stating obvious??? Benefit of doubt though - maybe you have a lot of experience with grandmothers in tears because they're so upset that they can't fasten a boot round their shin, despite the best attempts of several well equipped boot shops in a busy alp resort to do so. I hadn't experienced it before and don't want to again - it was not a case of an easy shell stretch and most of the shops stocked the Head edge which would not fit to the extent that they were trying to find a way to extend the power strap - if it was such as easy issue I'd be giving her one of the wife's old pairs or Rossi's or Atomics to get blown and flared.

Therefore in this case it made sense to have a quick try (with correct foot size!) to see if any of the boots as standard would fit her calf - rather than repeating the 6 hour rigmarole of the previous year! Fortunately for me she is so determined to ski with the kids that she has lost a lot of weight since last year and just got in to the Heads (but for info - the model EB gave her to try was a waste of time - they didn't listen to what were told and she felt like they were not interested in her custom as did the wife!!!). And TBH I couldn't give a !oss about pros or cons of EB - not what started the thread for - the EB guy did his job. Sometimes boots are a rigmarole - sometimes they aren't but personally I reckon a good fitter goes some way to mitigating this.

Many thanks to all - as learned some very useful snippets over last few days - now just need to find out which boot fitters has got a good pub beside it so I can slope off whilst wife and mother are having them fitted! Wink
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
sd2010, Could mum go and see CEM, ?
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when you push the 2nd buckle forward it released the back of the boot to make it easier to get on and off hence, personally never liked the fit of the boot, Its a pain in the back bottom to get a footbed in, it was a pain in the back bottom to get the liner out to shell check, it was a pain in the back bottom to get done up well it was just a pain in the back bottom.

Personally think you would be alot better off in a head edge but then again if she finds the boot comfortable why argue with a good thing
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ohh check out the Salomon charm for calf room... it can handle a monster!
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sd2010, what girth are you talking about, 24"?
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Quote:

when you push the 2nd buckle forward it released the back of the boot to make it easier to get on and off hence, personally never liked the fit of the boot, Its a pain in the back bottom to get a footbed in, it was a pain in the back bottom to get the liner out to shell check, it was a pain in the back bottom to get done up well it was just a pain in the back bottom.


Thought you were a bootfitter???
Toofy Grin
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
My wife encountered similar probs. Very high instep and wide calves. Went to see Alistair at Ski'n'Boardroom (friend of a friend) and got my wife sorted with a pair of Tecnica's. Also got a custom footbed done at EB in Braehead prior to buying them (to see if this would solve the problem with her previous boots, but didn't). She does not have any probs now. (I'm a bit busy to read all the above comments but thouht I would add some comment given the similarity)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote:
Quote:

when you push the 2nd buckle forward it released the back of the boot to make it easier to get on and off hence, personally never liked the fit of the boot, Its a pain in the back bottom to get a footbed in, it was a pain in the back bottom to get the liner out to shell check, it was a pain in the back bottom to get done up well it was just a pain in the back bottom.


Thought you were a bootfitter???
Toofy Grin


lolol Dan - despite it earning you a ribbing that has to be one of the best summaries of a boot's qualities that I have ever read - greatly appreciated!!! snowHead

Mosha - I have no idea - if you would seriously attempt to measure the calves of a woman over 40, never mind 50, with a tape measure whilst she's emotionally fragile and holding a ski boot then me thinks your moshing days would stop rather abruptly!!! Toofy Grin


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 12-11-10 17:18; edited 1 time in total
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sd2010, Well to be honest i've never had an issue with it, certainly none of the mentioned problems, technique is technique, what can i say. If someone was having these kind of issues with the said boot, i'd be a little unsure if they could manage the more technical procedure of flaring a coller.
Little Angel
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SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote:
sd2010, Well to be honest i've never had an issue with it, certainly none of the mentioned problems, technique is technique, what can i say. If someone was having these kind of issues with the said boot, i'd be a little unsure if they could manage the more technical procedure of flaring a coller.
Little Angel


I'm staying out of this one lol

I have tried to stay fairly open minded regards the boots, but will admit to instinctively disliking the idea of the Olympia, which is only based on my personal bias and the fact there seem to be a hell of a lot of them (far more so than the Head or Salomon) up for sale as new at reduced prices on Ebay and the like. Maybe it's a poor reflection of what is actually a very good boot. Puzzled
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
sd2010, Perhaps, for me at least, it has only i real use, the one you have eluded to. But stay to the high numbers. Poor plastic otherwise.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Thought I would add a concluding note to this one, may be of use to someone else. Ended up in Banks of Perth (2 lovely ladies fitting the boots there), over course of a few hours, I went for a wander whilst mum and wife got fitted (beginner and advanced respectively). By time I came back, Mum had got through several pairs including Heads and Atomics. She could get in to both brands, but wasn't overly comfortable for more than a few minutes. Eventually she ended up with a pair of Salomon Charms on her feet. At this point I really needed a nicotine break again so wandered outside. Came back a bit later and was gobsmacked...she's still in the Charms, walking round shop and commenting that they felt as comfy as her walking boots.

Was on verge of questioning the quality of her walking boots, but was too busy rejoicing at getting a pair of ski boots to fit. Few weeks to go till they're tested on the snow, but for any other ladies with boot/wide calf issues the Charms look ever comfier than the Heads.
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