Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, hoping someone who lives or goes to Morzine regularly can help. Heading there in January this year with MrsDrluvski and our baby who will be 5 months old. Cant wait. Staying in a great apartment and hoping for lots of snow.
Does anyone know if they sell aptamil baby milk in ready made cartons (200ml) in Morzine. In the UK they are in small blue cartons. We can take them over, but 20+ cartons weighs about 5kg. Hope someone can check it out. Thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Drluvski, how about getting the baby used to some of the other brands so that you can cope with whatever is there? I ran out of the formula for my grand-daughter a couple of nights ago and used full fat long life. She didn't turn a hair; it went down just as fast.
I have been trying to persuade my daughter to move away from formula, actually, now that Ella has her first two teeth. Formula is so sugary. She never goes to bed with a bottle of milk, but she does often still have a bottle in the middle of the night and I don't like to think of her teeth bathing in the sugary milk.
I read a leaflet on children's oral health in my dentist's waiting room the other day, and that was very stern about how essential it was to move away from formula once babies have teeth - poor mothers these days, so much different advice from all corners (including granny!).
If you want to stick to the Aptamil, enough powder for a week wouldn't weigh much?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w, hi. Yep, by the time she has any teeth we will be getting her off the milk. I've heard how bad it is for teeth. Had thought about getting her used to the powdered stuff to prepare her for the trip but have read that some babies sick it up more. If its not stocked anywhere in Morzine, thats the route we'll take. Thanks for your help.
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Drluvski, very unlikely I would have thought, whenever I have looked it's always been nestle brand milks. If you can get it will probably be called by a different name. If you can find out what the french equivalent is then the local pharmacie will probably be able to order it in. I would try contacting the UK manufacturer and asking them for advice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Drluvski wrote: |
pam w, hi. Yep, by the time she has any teeth we will be getting her off the milk. I've heard how bad it is for teeth. Had thought about getting her used to the powdered stuff to prepare her for the trip but have read that some babies sick it up more. If its not stocked anywhere in Morzine, thats the route we'll take. Thanks for your help. |
bear in mind you will pay through the nose for it!
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Drluvski, It very much depends on how much you believe about what you are told you should be feeding baby and what common sense tells you works. Now I'm not suggesting that you do the same, but to echo the above thoughts, I also had mine on full cream milk by 5 mths (in fact mine were on it from about 3-4 weeks old) - I had a little bottle of childrens vitamin supplement that I added a few drops for a little while, but gave that up as over-egging things in the finish too. I'm afraid I read the ingredients list on the back of a tin/carton of formula (which is worth doing if you haven't ever done so) and decided that fresh natural product had to be a better bet that all that junk in formula made on the back of whey of all things! - left overs from the cheese making process. FWIW when I did use formula for just a few weeks I used the powdered sort without problems. Babies are much tougher than you think. Babies are now two strapping kids 10 and 8 yrs old!
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Drluvski, I can check it out but not until after 26 December which will probably be too late for you. There are several snowHeads who live in Morzine who hopefully will see this thread.
If you are really stuck, and you are there at the same time, we could bring some out in the car and you could collect from Les Gets before 3 Jan.
We have brought dog food to some friends in Les Carroz before now so this would be a change (and take less room )
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French baby milk is very expensive. I think Milupa do make a French version of Aptamil (but it's just called Milupa), but is only in powdered form. Guigoz brand is readily available and is apparently the nearest equivalent (it also comes in ready to drink).
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Lou, That is a very kind offer. We are in Morzine from the 2nd to 9th Jan. I will give the powdered stuff a go first though and get in touch if I need to take you up on it. Thanks for the help everyone. Megamum, Just read the ingredients on the side of the carton. Doesnt look too healthy!!!
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I would recommend avoiding cows milk if you can until they are a year old - far more likely to have allergy issues in later life if the introduced to it before a year.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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thebigz, the advice is that you can start to add it to the diet once baby is taking solids around 6 months. The reason for using formula as a drink up to 1 year old is more a nutritional one. After all, cows milk is designed for calves not humans.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Are you flying into Geneva Airport? There are two pharmacies in the airport (one by the departures security gate and one in the attached shopping centre by the train station), and they definitely sell it. Our baby is using Aptamil in Switzerland, and we have bought a box or two there before when dropping off or picking up relatives.
It's the boxes of powder though I'm referring too - not sure I've seen any ready made, but then I've not looked for these to be fair.
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You know it makes sense.
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Hells Bells, OK, but were babies designed to live off formula? They were of course designed to live off breast milk.
In an age where artificial stuff is often denounced, it is generally considered OK to stuff infants with products from the chemical industry. It is very funny that you can't easily find lists of ingredients on the internet either for these formula milks - I have just googled Aptamil ingredients, and not easily found 'hits' - does the formula industry have something to hide?
They are on the formula packets - in some of the smallest writing on the tin. I have dug out an old tin of Farleys First Milk - suitable from Birth!!! - about 7 years old:
Demineralised whey
Skimmed milk
Vegetable oils
Lactose
Fish oil
Potassium chloride
Sodium citrate
Calcium lactate
Magnesium sulphate
Calcium carbonate
Vitamin C
Potassium hydroxide
Taurine
Iron sulphate
Potassium carbonate
Zinc sulphate
Niacin
Vitamin E
Pantothenic acid
Vitamin A
Copper sulphate
Riboflavin
Thiamin
Citric Acid
Vitamin B6
Beta carotene
Manganese sulphate
Vitamin K
Folic acid
Potassium iodide
Vitamin D
Biotin
Vitamin B12
Now I wonder how that compares with the ingredients in Breast milk. I am a chemist and I know which of the above are the vitamins, but I bet the child didn't need all of the above stuffed into it. Admittedly they seem to be formulated to sustain a child (and clearly kids don't die on it), but given the alternative of the above mixture or a natural product - I chose to plump for the latter as soon as I possibly could (once I got the health visitor of my back!). It just seems to go against the grain that folks generally seem anti chemicals and artificial things, yet with the proportion of the population that we seem to decry chemicals for the most we seem happy to pump them full of an artificially made concoction just because we are told it is the right thing to do. I'm not saying it isn't, but I think parents ought to make sure they have looked at things from all perspectives. For a short holiday with a gradual pre-holiday introduction I doubt full cream milk will do baby any harm.
thebigz, I know that has been said, but I've no idea how significant the stats were. It would be good to pull the study apart with a fine toothed comb.
The human population certainly didn't do any harm from the year dot to about 100 years ago on what nature provided regardless of when they were weaned. Would we be here if they hadn't?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Mumsnet invasion!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The advice is very conflicting. Everyone agrees breast is best. But beyond that, the dentists sternly advise against formula once they have teeth (because it's so sugary) and others advise against unprocessed cows milk till 12 months.
And, of course, historically and in almost all poorer societies now vast numbers of babies died. Infant death is now a small fraction of what it was even 50 years ago, so it's nonsense to suggest that modern ideas are necessarily wrong.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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From a practical point of view fresh cows milk will be a right pain the backside to cart round resort with you and keep cool. At least with formula it's transportable. I would really recommend just taking a tub of powder with you, and then boiling up water each morning for the days bottles.
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Alexandra, Actually I agree that breast may not be best in some situations, I'm only trying to say that formula may not be best either. I couldn't breast feed so never had any option, but to buy the ruddy formula and I must say that more than anything else was what annoyed me - the lack of choice. I wanted to feed a natural product and it didn't exist and there was no advice that you could get given on how best to adapt the natural things that you could get (other proper milks) for infant feeding - no professional person would give me that because it 'wasn't currently recommended'. I resented the lack of choice which meant I had no option, but to glug that formula gunk down my kids neck. Mind you I was never gung ho that I wanted to breast feed either - I just wanted an option that wasn't formula.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, if I'd had to do that when my eldest son was a baby, I would probably have committed infanticide by the time the bottle was prepared.
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Hells Bells, yes, I think it's all a bit OTT really. But there are times when one just has to shut up and comply with new mum's wishes! At least she's had the commonsense to give the baby cold bottles and food - which she's more than happy with. And, of course, that's better bacteriologically.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My Wife breastfed for as long as she could, but ultimately after 3 months she wasn't producing enough despite very regular feeding patterns and pumping each time too, and so we had to switch over to formula milk, with the doctor's blessing.
It's not always a straightforward choice, but the baby couldn't be any healthier or happier than she is now
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I tend to think that if you have a hungry baby who isn't getting filled up on formula (even the more advanced ones)/breast or whatever, then surely its best to poke some grub into them rather than have a post baby blues mother sling her infant against the wall '(or go quietly mad herself) cos it won't stop crying. Both mine had grub nice and early (about 6 and 8 weeks IIRC) - it stopped 'em crying and I got early sleeps through the night (phew). Everyone was a winner IMV. I worked on the theory listen to the advice, work out why they 'have' to tell you that (to stop someone suing them if it goes pear shaped) then stick it through the common sense filter and make up my own mind!!
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my daughter discovered - actually reading some breastfeeding stuff on an online forum - that sometimes there's a big gap before the "hind milk" comes in, which means that unless baby (and mother) have the patience, it never does. Having been born on the 75th percentile (weight) her baby dropped down to the 25th, which rings all the health visitor alarm bells and gets mums very worried. The baby was feeding often too, which is a problem in itself. Once the penny dropped and she learnt to encourage Ella to keep sucking until the glugging started again, everything went much better - and after a while the supply problem sorted it out.
None of the health visitors, midwives or counsellors had suggested such a problem - her reading of that forum turned out to be a very good thing. I'd been assuring her that there'd be no problem giving Ella bottles but she was upset to think she might have to stop feeding (and half and half solutions tend not to work for long). She gave up breastfeeding in time to be completely stopped and getting back into some normal kind of clothes before she started her part time teaching job in September but I think she'd have been hard on herself if she'd stopped earlier and once she got good at it she did, of course, find that it was super-easy compared to the alternatives.
She's also determined not to use more disposable nappies than she has to, because she is very conscious of the landfill problems. So she's discovered some very high tech and clever re-usables - even re-usable baby wipes which are actually very good. It's hard work being a modern mum!
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Drluvski, OMG I bet you wish you'd never asked.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lou wrote: |
Drluvski, OMG I bet you wish you'd never asked. |
I took the powder with me , and a spare one in hand luggage. I also over filled the bottles with water, enough for about 7 feeds. Learned this going to Oz, just as well we had a 7 hour delay at Gatwick, so pleased to have the powder to hand, with previously boiled water. We also used all the nappies we had in our hand luggage.Hope this helps.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Megamum wrote: |
I am a chemist and I know which of the above are the vitamins, |
I'm not but I'd hazard a guess at the ones called vitamin somethingorother.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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IIRC I had a small flask that carried enough boiled water for a couple of feeds (hot or cold), and it had a couple of plastic containers which fitted into it to take enough powder for each feed. It was handy for travelling. I think for a holiday if the OP doesn't want to use milk that a tin of powder could well be the best option.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Megamum wrote: |
IIRC I had a small flask that carried enough boiled water for a couple of feeds (hot or cold), and it had a couple of plastic containers which fitted into it to take enough powder for each feed. It was handy for travelling. I think for a holiday if the OP doesn't want to use milk that a tin of powder could well be the best option. |
I wanted to draw attention to what should have been 8 hours door to door became 15, and if we had not had the spare capacity we could have had a problem, but yes what you describe would work.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Drluvski, I agree with those advising to take a tin of the powdered formula. At five months your baby will have a much stronger stomach. Maybe buy a tin now and give her one feed a day on it to see that she is ok. TBH I would be very surprised if it made any difference. Neither of my girls really sicked up after meals, despite being on formula from six/seven weeks - powder from tins for the most part.
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Drluvski, as a helpful suggestion to the original
question. You might find more choice at the airport (if it is a major one you are flying to) then you could buy more there rather than going over your weight limit on the flight?
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Reading all this brought back bad memories of my daughter's early feeding. Spud9 Jnr. was breast fed to start with, but at about 3 weeks old she became more and more difficult to feed. Formula milk didn't help. she started loosing weight and was admitted to hospital at 9 weeks. A few days later she was diagnosed with a rare heart defect (ALCAPA- Anomalous Origin of Left Coronary Artery on Pulminory Artery) and had major open heart surgery at Great Ormond Street a few days later. 9 days on a ventilator followed.
When we took Jnr home (after a month in hospital) she was fed by syringe every 3 hours through an NG tube (a tube going in through her nose). Each feeding involved three syringes, plus she was on eight different drugs, all delivered via sryinge, some of the drugs were 4 times a day. We were getting through about 40 disposable syringes a day, we had boxes of the things everywhere. We did however get special high energy formula milk on prescription, so that saved some money.
The tube was removed at 6 months and things slowly got back to normal. Jnr is now a normal healthy girl with boundless energy, she's now nearly 6. Her only medication now is a tiny aspirin tablet every morning.
In retrospect the worst time was around weeks 5-8 when we were struggling to feed Jnr without success, while the health visitors and doctors told us we were doing it wrong. Once in the NHS 'machine' she was extremely well looked after.
It all seems a very long time ago and something that happened in another life. More importantly Jnr will be going on her first ski holiday in February
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Drluvski, Nappies are painfully expensive too! Pack as many of them as you can.
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