 Poster: A snowHead
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We just have the one son and no skiing friends with kids. Last year, we put him into a few lessons at Castleford, so he was familiar with skis, boots etc (which he loved) and then into Piou Piou at Peisey through Esprit.
After a couple of days he was bored with the tiny park at Peisey and by the end of the week he just wanted to ski with us. His birthday is in May so he'll be not quite 5 when we plan to ski in April and if we did the same thing this year he'd be in the same situation but a year older and stroppier 
This year I want him to have fun, to come home thinking skiing is great. But we don't want to ski with him all week (he can't ski for a start!), so we're looking for half days at least.
To apease the adult skiers I'm trying to avoid France, I've read through a number of posts here but most are France. Has anyone tried the Snowli Club at Zermatt? They get there by train which would be a big selling point but no good if the rest isn't up to scratch. Or how about Obergurgl? We are planning an early April trip so needs to be fairly snow sure.
Any recommendations really appreciated.
Alice
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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aethornley, The only Swiss ski school I have any experience of will put the 5 year olds in the ski garden, but very quickly the stronger ones were taken out on to the wide blue slopes. This was the Thyon 2000 ski school and they skied the littlies down to Les Collons.
We have been very happy with the school, as we have a small place there we go back as much as we can(but not this year though  ). Our youngest went through the garden and was out on the main slope by day 3. The major downside is that they only do Mon-Fri lessons although they are happy to do 1/2 days.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Have a word with Esprit -we are in the same boat and they have booked our 4 year 11 month old into the Sprite course as he has done the Spritelet level already
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I can recommend the Arc-en-Ceil school in Siviez (4-vallees) http://www.arcenciel-siviez.ch/. Great instructiors and they take kids directly to the gentle blue run. My kid loved it. Certainly the adults won't get bored of the skiing in the region either and it is snow sure.
The only problem is that Siviez is not a resort as such (its a junction point in the centre of the 4-vallees) and that means staying in Nendaz and bussing or driving there each morning (which can be a bit of a pain)...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you go to Austria, the ski schools tend to run for 2.5 hours in the morning and same again in afternoon. You can usually pay an extra €10 each day for them to supervise and take them for lunch. I've had my kids in French, Italian and Austrian ski schools, and for me the Austrian ones were better (based on our experiences). Have a wee look at Serfaus as there is absolutely loads of other snow activities should your son get tired, which at the age he is, he could well do. I've not been yet but my brother in law loved it when he took his son there a few years ago. Pricewise it will be similar to Obergurgl.
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Our son was in the Swiss Ski School ski kindergarten in Verbier at 4. This worked well for him as they recognised that he wanted to be out on the slopes so he was, and we dropped him off at the nursery slope thereafter - it was clear that some of the other children did not want to (or weren't able to) ski, and they seemed to stay in the kindergarten building. We paid the extra for them to give him lunch so that we had a little extra time to ourselves (it is amazing how long dropping one child off takes from your day) - the food seemed, from his descriptions and our chats with staff, pretty good.
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aethornley, our first son had perhaps a similar start;
3- individual lessons in Val d'Isere
4 - 1 weel ski garden then 2 weeks normal ski school- greens and blues. also Val.
I think that if your son has the appropriate badge then at 4 he could get to ski out and about. Does he?
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He got a Piou Piou which I believe is simply the bottom ESF level. I wouldn't say he can ski at all, he went up the mountain with us the last day and had very little control. I felt they simply all got the badge for simply turning up. The Espirit wraparound care was good but the lesson with the ESF very uninspiring. I'm not planning on using the ESF this year although I'm sure they'll be fine once he's older.
I'm not looking pushing for massive skiing improvement, just a want to be sure he has fun.
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aethornley, welcome to snowheads 
My son is 5, we have been through this too. You are right the ESF give the Piou Piou for turning up, they need to get the Ourson to show they can do some basics.
I can give you a few good personal recommendations for ski schools for kids this age but they are all in France I am afraid. Still here they are just in case:
1. Snowbizz in Puy St Vincent, cannot fault the ski school or childcare there, but may not be the best bet for April
2. Ultimate Snowsports, based in La Tania but will teach in Courchevel 1850, will have a class size of 3 at this age. Our party had a 3 and a 4 year old with Lee from Ultimate this year and they did so well and more importantly had a great time.
3. Apeak ski school in Montgenevre, excellent ski school, smaller classes for the very young ones too. They have a really fun thing at the end of the week - Hunt the Yeti! It is great for small kids. snowymum will vouch for this too as her daughter was a near beginner and made superb progress with them this year.
Now for a couple of others which come to mind, heard good things but not tried:
Eskimos in Saas-Fee, small classes, good snow sure resort for April, will be other English kids in the class as Family Ski Company use them for their clients.
The Little Ones Programme run by Magic ski school in Courchevel 1850.
The Snowli Club in Zermatt does look very good though. I would check to see if they are likely to have other english speaking kids in the group though as this could be an issue. Stoked Ski School there do a similar thing and might have more english speakers than the swiss school.
Best of luck with it 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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aethornley, oh- sorry welcome to snowheads too!
persist- he won't be 4 or 5 for long- and will soon be having a great time with you. I really don't think you should worry too much about exactly which lesson/class/company. Just get him out- but not in too cold weather- be enthusiastic and make sure he always has a snack bar in his fartbags- oh and plenty of chocolat chaud.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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etilax, Your link test is wrong - it says in Europe, but it only covers France - and the thread title clearly says not France.
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You know it makes sense.
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Why do as big story about a kid in skischool???? kids are kids,, this seems for me to be a problem for parents,,, yes,,, I´m swedish skiteacher living in france,,, I had lesson with kids when parents shouting to their kids how to do,,, so why put them in skilessons??? all ski teacher are very good to take care about lessons specelly if it is ESF,,,,
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Your son sounds similar to my youngest. My five year old started when he was 3 and 3/4 at a long weekend in Hemsedal in April '09 where I taught him the basics of the snowplough. He got on really well so a friendly lift attendant helped him learn the drag lifts to stop me having a heart attack pulling my son uphill. In December last year when my son was four and a half he had lessons in Hemsedal (again) in a very small group (of one!) and the teachers taught him what he needed to improve (weight forward, skis parallel, arms in the right place,skiing through trees and on small jumps etc). He has learned lots from watching others.
Pros of this approach - faster to get the child on skis, much less boredom as the pace is customised to the child, the focus was on having fun rather than being part of a crocodile, the instructors spoke perfect english, you get past the snow plough stage quickly so the child can ski longer and not get tired.
Cons - The first lessons (with me) were no fun (for me), the child cannot really fit into the ESF system easily afterwards, they expect to ski with you more quickly than you might want or expect
Private lessons cost a fair bit but then you can split the child burden and one parent skis with the child while the other skis with the grown ups.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Not sure about some of your comments about the ESF Piou Piou. Our 4.5 year old spent a week at Piou Piou in Chamrousse and I was really impressed by what he had accomplished in that time. He couldn't get the Ourson because his snow plough is still a little tentative, but he has started to grasp the concept of changing direction using it, and learned how to get on and off a drag lift (not easy for a small child you needs the strength to remove the pulley bar). Maybe too many parents get frustrated and forget that learning to ski the basics also relies on physical strength in the arms, legs and body - which small children often lack (and develop at different rates). Most importantly, my son had a wonderful time, developed a real passion for skiing. I'd rather they only award the Ourson when the kids really have mastered basic snow plough for their own safety. I don't know why the ESF get so much criticism - we've always only had great experiences with our kids (my 13 year old started a 5 with them and has progressed now right up through all of the badges - and is (annoyingly) a super natural skier.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| boabski wrote: |
| I've had my kids in French, Italian and Austrian ski schools, and for me the Austrian ones were better (based on our experiences). Have a wee look at Serfaus as there is absolutely loads of other snow activities should your son get tired, which at the age he is, he could well do. I've not been yet but my brother in law loved it when he took his son there a few years ago. Pricewise it will be similar to Obergurgl. |
Second this, Serfaus / Fiss is a perfect family resort, and the Austrians have a really good kids entertainment programme, as well as having a decent sized ski area for everyone else to ski. Pretty much all the instructors there can speak good english, being mostly dutch. Be wary of Austria during dutch school holidays though, group sizes tend to skyrocket for a week or two.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We too have found that the Austrians are so much more flexible than the French. #1son at aged 4 was kicked out of ski school in France as he was "too good for us, we only ski them in the play area", whilst the following week in Austria he was skiing just about the whole mountain. Given this as our experience, we've just booked to Austria for #2son - he is 3.5yo and a confident skier and would be very annoyed at being told he was only allowed in the play area.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I thought I would take the time to report back on how we'd got on. We ended up going to Montgenevre (yes I know I said not France) and M had half day lessons with Apeak. He loved it and improved heaps. I can heartily recommend them.
With hind sight the previous problems were with him being not ready at 3.75 and the ESF park at Peisey which is very limited, the one at Montgenevre was much better. That said the ESF groups last week were larger than the Apeak ones and didn't seem to be getting as far up the mountain, but it is hard to be sure you've got a fair comparison.
Thank you all for your input. M is happy and can't wait for next year which is all I needed to achieve!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| CharlieL wrote: |
| ...I don't know why the ESF get so much criticism - we've always only had great experiences with our kids... |
I've been impressed by ESF in both Peisey and Courchevel when with Esprit.
The ESF Boss Lady in Courchevel explained their philosophy as follows: Kids should learn to ski parallel asap. Before they can ski parallel on all greens and easier blues, they should not go on harder runs. Even if they can "ski reds after one week" (a proud boast of British parents; maybe other nationalities as well, but no-one'e ever translated the comments of other parents for me!) the kids do it with the wrong technique. At best, they learn bad habits. At worst they lose confidence. In both cases, the rate of progress is slowed vs what is achieved via the "ESF approach".
Obviously, there are always exceptions to such sweeping generalisations, and I'm sure there are plenty of genuine example of bad teaching and attitude from ESF and other ski schools. Also, one can always question the ESF belief that their way is best, but that is the philosophy as it was explained to me.
There does seem to be a reluctance amongst Brits to get proper coaching in technical disciplines, and skiing is up there with the most technical and needs proper coaching to enable peak potential to be reached. I guess the tendency of the parents of once a year skiing kids is to get short-term progress (in terms of pistes "ticked off"), which may not be consistent with the best route to technical proficiency.
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OK...not sure whether this thread is still genuinely active and of interest, but Swiss Mountain Sports in Montana (Crans-Montana) is really very good. They have a limit on class size of a maximum of 5 and frequently they have groups of 2 or 3. All the instructors are fantastic with young ones - ours were learning nothing in Ecole Ski Suisse in Crans and we then we found SMS - what a contrast...my then three-year old had a fantastic time - now, at 5, he carves everywhere (and I mean everywhere) - they have maintained his interest and enjoyment, he had huge fun in the lessons, and the instructors convey genuine, solid technique. Here's the website.
http://www.sms04.ch/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=42&Itemid=53&lang=en
Switzerland (even with the strength of the swiss franc) remains round about the same price as france and austria - the resort is just over two hours from Geneva (you can also get there on the train- Kings Cross-Paris-Sierre then funicular to Montana). Director Yves Caillet is a great guy and the school is now really well established - and a member of the swiss ski school federation.
Crans is an interesting resort. Seems limited at first (although it has 120km of runs), until you notice that they don't stuff lifts onto every possible slope, and you also notice the amount of interlinking off-piste, which is really accessible. There are some much more demanding 'hidden' off-piste routes, but you'll need a guide for those. But there's a lot of this kind of stuff - evidenced by the ski trails winding into woods and over cliffs. Something for everyone, from the beginners' complex at Signal to the bump fields off the back of Col de Pochet.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Before they can ski parallel on all greens and easier blues, they should not go on harder runs.
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That sounds right to me. We do see parents (who often can't ski for toffee themselves) taking snowploughing kids down quite difficult runs. We'd be very surprised to see an instructor (from ESF or ESI) doing the same thing. It's not that the instructors are reluctant to "stretch" the kids - you see them whizzing through the trees,over jumps, off piste etc with the higher level classes.
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