 Poster: A snowHead
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Just want some opinions
For the last 3 years have used my manual 2004 Subaru Forester for going to the snow, (5 times a season usually) its got winter tyres and low ratio box, but is rather underpowered (very!) and not that comfortable on long journeys as its noisy and is not very fuel efficent. V V good in snow however.
But at home it never gets used...........
My wifes car is the audi, which gets used alot as its auto and she will only drive auto and does most of the driving at home. Its very comfortable, but starting to get oldish. Its does more to the gallon than subaru and is quick (2.6 v6) makes the journey in the summer much nicer than subaru in the winter.
Her suggestion is (and it seems to make sense) get rid of subaru, buy winter tyres for audi and take that and do breakdown insurance on it.
But what is audi like on snow?, as subaru 4 wheel drive seems clever compared to other soft roader things, eg. back wheels on concrete in garage front on snow/ice it just gets out, everything else got stuck. no idea how the audi system works.
Audi also has nil ground clearance, well its low.
Drive up and down to flaine from les carroz a lot in the season.
Advice from audi owners welcome.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Stick winter tyres on it and it'll be fine.
Tyres are everything.
My BiL had an RS6, even on mega fat summer tyres it could still move in the snow, AUDI 4wd system is very good.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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you'll do fine with the winter tyres and quattro. Ground clearance may be the issue but if it's that deep then maybe you wont be moving anyway unless in a proper snowroader/off-roader. Does it get deep on your usual route?
ran my A4 2.5 TDI quattro thorugh the snow for years - all good (diesel might be a tad higher due to heavier engine and subsequent "bigger" suspension (???)). Low ratio no big help in normal snowy conditions I find. Switching off the audi ESP when getting moving has a remarkable effect though - much easier to get going
Might be worth looking at steel rims / 2nd set cheap alloys to run the winter tyres on - that way you could go narrower on the tyre/wheel size which will help even more in the snow
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Spyderman, barry, Thanks, sounds like it will be fine. Just got to investigate tyres now and see if i can find the narrower alloys, as it has the largest ones that fit under the arches at the moment. (its was MD's company car and had everything on the option list, we purchased it from co when he retired, they got him a new one as a retirement present)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've got an A6 Avant (2006) which I used with winter tyres last winter. Best check owners manual for specified tyre sizes in case you need to fit snow chains. I bought an extra set of alloys very similar to OEM design from alloywheels.com (16" rims) for £240.00 delivered, not sure if they'll still have them though, Pirelli Sottozero tyres were £105.00 each (Protyre Westbury) . Smaller rims are cheaper, so are the tyres to fit them rather than a low profile confuguration.
Only 2WD 2.0 TDI but worked fine after struggling with a Volvo V40 on standard tyres and chains on an earlier trip on the Les Carroz/Flaine road.
If its fully loaded does it not have the upgraded suspension where you can adjust the ride height?.
Might see you there..
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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carroz, Have you got the non turbo model? Just bought a Forester in 2.5 turbo and it's crap off a shovel fast 
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| Spyderman wrote: |
Stick winter tyres on it and it'll be fine.
Tyres are everything.
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Agreed. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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RachelQ, Stop teasing us with those snow pics 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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RachelQ, thanks soooo much for posting that!!
I'm staying at Les Melezes Les Boisses for New Year and have an A6 Quattro but its got the S Line sport suspension so only £250+ snow chains fit it. I had been thinking of borrowing back the Mondeo I sold to my mate, as I bought chains for that, but I felt a bit guilty about putting 2500 miles on it for him.
It was fine getting up to Courchevel in my Scooby, without chains, so I hoped the Audi would also cope with the road up from Bourg. It looks like it will 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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As far as I know Audi Quattro 4WD mechanism is as good as that used by Subaru because they are both mechanical systems (not using viscous fluid). It is even possible to Audi system is better.
Audi Q5 is the competitor to Forest but at twice its price.
In the end it is always the tyre that matter most. Chains should be the last resort.
In heavy snow, say knee deep, the low ground clearance Audi may float on the snow and lose traction before the Forster. That only happen if you leave the car in a car park for an extended duration.
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Of all the car 4WD systems, Audi is reported to be the best in the snow (according to a german car mag). As others have said narrow winter tyres are much better. Suspect the Suby pulls away when the front tyres are on ice and the rear tyres on concrete because most of the power is delivered to the rear wheels. 4WD cars that have most of the power delivered to the rear wheels (e.g. Subaru, BMW) tend to handle better in summer but cars that send most of the power to the front wheels (e.g. Audi) are better for winter driving.
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You know it makes sense.
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Scarpa, Yes its the non turbo 2.0 with the old single cam engine, so 125 ps....er slow would be a description, but it has the low ratio box which has helped getting up some really slippy stuff. Trying to overtake stuff on 2 way route national is an adventure..........
DB, sounds like my (wifes really) audi will be ok. The other 2 cars trying to get out of the garage were a brand new crv and a 4 wheel drive renault, (scenic?) both just spun the front wheels and went nowhere. The CRV guy got some serious stick from his wife which was slightly amusing!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Subaru use a viscous coupling to power the rear wheels and run 60:40 F:R split. Later ones are driver adjustable but pre 2007 (UK supplied) are fixed at that ratio.
Post 1996 Audis are split 40:60 and have a Torsen centre diff which is far superior to the viscous coupling system. The very latest ones are even better.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've driven to the French Alps twice a year for the past 6 years in two different cars both on "Summer tyres" with an expensive set of unused snow chains in the boot.
As I changed my car again in the summer, with another different wheel/tyre size, I am wondering if I should bother investing in a 3rd set of chains 
I blame global warming myself.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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carroz,
Your suby is probably permanent 4WD while the CRV and renault are likely to be front wheel drive until the front wheels slip.
bar shaker,
Suprized, always thought Audi's were more front wheel drive biased other than the super powerful versions (e.g. RS6 - Torsen 3)
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quattro generation IV
Starting from 1995 on Audi A4 / S4 / RS4 (B5 platform), Audi A6 / S6 / allroad / RS6, Audi A8 / S8 with both manual and automatic transmissions. Also on VW Passat B5, where it was initially referred to as syncro, but by the time it reached US soil, it had been re-christened 4motion. Also used on the Volkswagen Phaeton and Volkswagen Group D platform sister vehicles. The Volkswagen Touareg used 4Xmotion with a separate transmission, PTUs and front axles.
The manually locking rear differential from the earlier generations was replaced with a conventional open differential, with "Electronic Differential Lock" (EDL) (which detects wheelspin via ABS road wheel speed sensors, and applies brakes to the one spinning wheel, thus transferring torque via open differential to the opposite wheel which has more traction). EDL works at speeds up to 80 km/h (50 mph) on all quattro models (on non-quattro models: up to 40 km/h (25 mph).
System type: Permanent four-wheel drive.
Torsen type 1 centre differential, 50:50 'default' split, automatically apportioning up to 75% of torque transfer to either front or rear axle.
quattro generation V
Starting with the B7 Audi RS4 and the manual transmission version of the 2006 B7 Audi S4. It was adopted in the entire S4 lineup in 2007 and become the standard fitment on all quattro Audis with longitudinal engine layout until replaced in the 2010 RS5.
System type: Permanent asymmetric four-wheel drive.
Torsen type 3 (Type "C") centre differential, 40:60 'default' split front-rear, automatically apportioning up to 70% of torque transfer to the front axle or up to 85% torque to the rear axle.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattro_(four_wheel_drive_system)
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/4wd_turbo_cars.html
Why would a car that sends more power to the rear wheels be better in snow?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| carroz wrote: |
DB, sounds like my (wifes really) audi will be ok. The other 2 cars trying to get out of the garage were a brand new crv and a 4 wheel drive renault, (scenic?) both just spun the front wheels and went nowhere. The CRV guy got some serious stick from his wife which was slightly amusing! |
Both are FWD until slippage is detected, then some power is sent to the rear. What a lot of people with that type of 4WD system do is back off the gas as soon as the wheels start to spin, so they'll go nowhere. What they need to do is allow the front wheels to spin and slowly apply power to allow the viscous coupling to send power to the rear wheels. Exactly the same method for Traction Control systems.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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RachelQ, 4WD will help you keep moving, but without winter tyres or chains, it's going to do nothing to slow you down.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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bar shaker, the tyres were almost new for the journey, which probably helped. On the climb up from Bourg the snow was thick and fresh on the road - it was about 3.00 in the morning, so not many cars about. But all the other cars we saw had to stop and put chains on. We just kept driving, very slowly but steadily and without any problems.
We did buy some chains to fit the big fat wheels just in case we were stopped, I found some for about £30 from toys4cars, they might have got us out of trouble if we'd needed them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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DB, Whilst I do enjoy Wikipedia, its not what my mate at Audi says, so who do I believe? There are certainly no wires going into my centre diff and EDL would involve some sort of 'clonk' as it engaged, if it were digital (electronic and on or off). My car definitely has a Torsen centre diff and the back comes out if you hoof it in the wet, rather than the front running wide as per FWD biased cars, like my UK Scoobies (I've had 3 UK and 2 jap versions).
RachelQ, Your car looks like it has Le Mans wheels. A6 cars with S Line suspension (which includes the top level Le Mans versions) have less than 10mm between the suspension unit's spring platform and the tyre. Putting the chains on could have wrecked the suspension units. My tyres are also good so hopefully I will be fine. The roads have been clear anyway on my last 4 trips, albeit they have been in Mountain Sun transfer buses.
ETA- DB just re-read that quote and my car is a 2006 so maybe it has the later system.
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I have an Audi A4 Sline , FWD , 19" 255/35 alloys -----nightmare in the snow  - 4WD next time
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| Scot_Ski wrote: |
| I have an Audi A4 Sline , FWD , 19" 255/35 alloys -----nightmare in the snow - 4WD next time |
You will probably get away with much narrower winter tyres on a set of steel rims.
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