 Poster: A snowHead
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Are there any hardbooters who can recommend or dissuade softies from giving hard boots a go?
When are hard boots better than soft? Key advantages?
When are they worse? Downsides?
Unlike a carving or freeride board, is it unsafe to try out hard boots on a freestyle board?
Are there any tips for the best way of trying hard boots out? Buy them, audition/hire them, pay for a lesson?
Can ski boots substitute just for the purposes of getting an idea?
What are softies missing out on - if anything?
Should a softie seek psychiatric help if they are enquiring about hard boots?
If a softie gets into using hard boots, does the ability to ride in soft boots atrophy?
Why are hardbooters so rare? And why are they all French or Austrian?
What's the difference between boards? Freecarve/alpine (assym/sym)/race/GS/skwal?
What's the difference between rotation and counter-rotation?
Do you really have to change angles to 60/60 and tuck the rear knee in the crook of the front one?
Do you need different clothing? One-piece, lycra, etc.
Will my soft boot buddies still invite me to go boarding and drinking with them?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ok crosbie, I've just had look at that skwal thing on your other thread and can you explain what the difference to that and a mono ski is please?
I know your not looking for a argument but if you showed me a picture of that skwal I'd instantly say "Thats not snowboarding" (I know that cause I said it when I saw it!). How do you justify calling it a snowboard?
Genuine questions, found reading your comments quite interesting.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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manicpb, on a skiwal your feet are in tandem (one in front of the other), on a monoboard your feet are parrallel (side by side).
crosbie, question your sexuality. Hard boots are for uber carving, you can still do this in soft boots just not quite as hard - I'd suggest working on your technique rather than equipment.
The only reason people snowboard is because of the soft boots - if you want to wear hard boots, learn to ski...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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manicpb, This Skwal here: http://www.skwalzone.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2232
A monoski or monoboard is a term usually used for a side-by-side binding configuration. It's effectively a single board used as if a pair of skis fixed to each other, and so may tend to be adopted by skiers used to that style of skiing. They're known as members of the Betty Swollocks club.
The skwal is the evolution of a racing alpine snowboard from fairly narrow, to very narrow until the bindings have to be at 90 degrees. Skwals can be short (like a single snow blades) or long.
So a skwal is as much a narrow snowboard as a monoski is a wide ski.
Maybe the aficionados of both are a tad extreme or peculiar, but each to their own eh? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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parlor, I'm bi.  I use hard boots on an alpine board when it's hard pack, and soft boots on a long board when it's snowed.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| parlor wrote: |
| manicpb, on a skiwal your feet are in tandem (one in front of the other), on a monoboard your feet are parrallel (side by side).... |
Ok, and is a monoski one foot behind the other on one ski, yeah?
| parlor wrote: |
crosbie, question your sexuality. Hard boots are for uber carving, you can still do this in soft boots just not quite as hard - I'd suggest working on your technique rather than equipment.
The only reason people snowboard is because of the soft boots - if you want to wear hard boots, learn to ski... |
That's all bit harsh, each to there own. Plenty on here swing both ways (I am on about skiing/boarding)!
I ride because I like going sideways, to travel down a hill facing the way I'm going just doesn't seem right which was goin to be my point about the skwal! Guess it's just the way I am 'cause I've taken the sideward optinon in everything, ski/board, skate/blades, surfing/bodyboarding (doesn't work quite as well)! However have no problem with hard boots, but they do have to be at an angle for me to call it snowboarding! 
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| manicpb wrote: |
| parlor wrote: |
| manicpb, on a skiwal your feet are in tandem (one in front of the other), on a monoboard your feet are parrallel (side by side).... |
Ok, and is a monoski one foot behind the other on one ski, yeah?
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I see you've answered it!
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| crosbie wrote: |
Are there any hardbooters who can recommend or dissuade softies from giving hard boots a go?
When are hard boots better than soft? Key advantages?
When are they worse? Downsides?
Unlike a carving or freeride board, is it unsafe to try out hard boots on a freestyle board?
Are there any tips for the best way of trying hard boots out? Buy them, audition/hire them, pay for a lesson?
Can ski boots substitute just for the purposes of getting an idea?
What are softies missing out on - if anything?
Should a softie seek psychiatric help if they are enquiring about hard boots?
If a softie gets into using hard boots, does the ability to ride in soft boots atrophy?
Why are hardbooters so rare? And why are they all French or Austrian?
What's the difference between boards? Freecarve/alpine (assym/sym)/race/GS/skwal?
What's the difference between rotation and counter-rotation?
Do you really have to change angles to 60/60 and tuck the rear knee in the crook of the front one?
Do you need different clothing? One-piece, lycra, etc.
Will my soft boot buddies still invite me to go boarding and drinking with them? |
Do it, if you learn to use the equipment properly you won't look back.
The advantages are in performance.
Disadvantages are clunking around in ski type boots, although that can be a bit of a misnomer as my hard boots are more comfie than my driver x's.
You can use hard boots on a freestyle board but be careful as the set up can provide a lot of power. I would only use them on top end free ride/bx boards.
Its hard to hire gear but there are places. Solden is a good place as there is a load of hard booters go there, so gear is plentiful. Again lessons are hard to find but if you go to Zinal at the end of Jan there is an event called Extreme carving session
http://www.extremecarving.com/events/events.html great fun and everyone is reall helpful.
Don't use ski boots as there is not enough lateral flex. Some ski boots are useable, Full Tilts and certain Dalbellos(any of the ones that use the old Raichle tech such as the Kryptons) But snowboard specific is best. I personally use Full Tilt's but thats cause I like to ski aswell, so its easy to swap disciplines without changing boots.
Softies are missing out on a whole s*@tload of fun. When conditions are boilerplate and most soft boot riders are skidding around having no fun, I am riding at mach 3, laying down major carves and all in complete control. The feeling is that good that some carving forums have topics about which is better, powder turns or alpine boarding on fresh groom.
You don't need psyciatric help and it will actually benefit your soft boot riding.
Hardbooters are rare but who wants to be a sheep when you could be a tiger.
Go to this site to learn all about technique and board type http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/index.php
You can wear lycra if you want. Race suits are actually banned from this year in the world cup.
Your friends might ask to have a go on your gear when they see you ripping up the slopes.
I still use my soft boot set up but I would never ever give up my hard boots.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| parlor wrote: |
manicpb, on a skiwal your feet are in tandem (one in front of the other), on a monoboard your feet are parrallel (side by side).
crosbie, question your sexuality. Hard boots are for uber carving, you can still do this in soft boots just not quite as hard - I'd suggest working on your technique rather than equipment.
The only reason people snowboard is because of the soft boots - if you want to wear hard boots, learn to ski... |
Have you ever ridden a hard boot set up? With a statement like that I think not. I snowboard because of hard boots. I can carve real well on my soft boot set up (Atomic Firestarter, Burton C60's and Driver x's) but my race board set up is on another level.
I really must be in a massive closet cause this gay comparison was aroung in the late 80's for hard booters aswell.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Another question for the consideration of the collective :-
"Are Hardbooters the snowboarding equivilant of the Freeheelers in skiing?"
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Masque, think i dislocated a knee just looking at the photo... assume the Aviators are mandatory?
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You know it makes sense.
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| manicpb wrote: |
| manicpb wrote: |
| parlor wrote: |
| manicpb, on a skiwal your feet are in tandem (one in front of the other), on a monoboard your feet are parrallel (side by side).... |
Ok, and is a monoski one foot behind the other on one ski, yeah?
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I see you've answered it! |
wrongly? on a monoski your feet are side by side, facing forward (think of glueing a pair of skis together to form one ski and that's pretty much it).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Skiwal, so THATS what they're called.
*googling*
ok, if Google can't find one for you to buy within 3 pages, then I think you can officially declare the kit dead... 
*note, this thread is the 3rd most popular skiwal site on the internet, the first 2 are about a bloke called 'Skiwal Gonzalez' and I reckon if I mention skiwal one more time, this'll probably be the MOST popular"
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Poster: A snowHead
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Richard_Sideways, try SKWAL instead of Skiwal?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Afraid Skwal doesn't do much better on the ol' google stakes crosbie, but a bit of rooting about did find a few manufacturers still making them...
...and possibly some who should take a break from designing skwals and take their medication instead...
http://www.snowblind.ch/
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Richard_Sideways, don't diss yer elders, I'm old enough to be yer grandad, I could have worn my 50's Wayfarers. And although it looks awkward it's very soft on the knees, only your toes are clipped to the board and tele boots are as comfy as any soft board boots I've owned.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hardbooters are about riding the edge,carving on piste at speed in its purest form is the aim.
Sliding the edge is a no no.
Riding a edge on snow is fun, many do it.
Many just think they do it via opinion.
Hardboarding is on another level and helps with any other type of riding... alot.
You learn when to hold hard.... and not flinch when its seems you want too,not even a few cm (with training).
The tracks left prove this,its like riding a knife,the grooves are only centimeters wide.Think a long ice skate if super hard and steep but really ice is a blueish colour and hardpack is white... and that is what you ride, not ice.
Its exhilarating but does take commitment, speed and technique like any sport also confidence in yourself to literally dive into a turn or down the piste on your forehand.
Its easy to forget this steepness and commitment with the addition of even more speed and acceleration provided.
The acceleration is immense and must be controled by your turn.
The turn is eveything or you are out of control.
The turn controls the speed.
You control the linked turns and run.
Non of the above is recreational but with the points offered above, it really can be so.
The Level of edge control via hardboots,alloy bindings enables more extreme forces and speeds to be obtained on steeper and harder snow... period.
Most people who have never tryed it have no concept whatsoever but probably if athletic would be absolutly stoked on it if spending more time in the alps and no powder about.
It only survives in real alpine regions for a reason.. as real alpine people do many alpine activitys although seem to love racing be it local, kids or elderly.
We went to a glacier side resort, small piste, that hardboard racers use to train on, fairly narrow but black black and like its shaved hard. (My board tech guy uses it, he laughed loud after)
Empty, no one on it.
I can not explain the immense acceleration or the forces needed to just lock into a turn.
I can not even explain the locked in turn bit but it takes alot to come back out and initiate the next.
Even if you committed to one turn and made it... you may have never made the next.. as technique/strenght was paramount.
I was ok and managed too slither down as opposed to being locked in and sent still accelerating, airborn off the side of the piste.... which fell away.
I think any average snowboarder would have slithered down that piste on his twin fine.
Although on a hard set up, any average boarder would have been terrified and walked back up to change his setup or catch the lift down.
My girlfriend did and was crying with fear,she learn,t snowboarding on a hard board on a glacier in minus 15.
Others that day including a female tore it up,the sound of the hardpack cracking very loudly from the forces and board edge that never slid.
If a rider wanted to challenge themselves and abilitys which could be furthered and applied anywhere on the mountain in any disapline, have a go.
I would advise as above for some help too max the initial days 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I had a wee shot last season on our April 1st one-piece/80's day. It takes a bit of getting used to - your movements are translated incredibly directly to the board (not helped by using ski boots) so when you're up on edge it can feel like balancing on tip-toes, but I got the hang of it well enough to do a few runs. I'd actually really like to have a another go at it on some proper winter hardpack instead of April afternoon slush. I love carving on my freeride board.
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FAQ
