 Poster: A snowHead
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snowcrazy, good attitude!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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laundryman, it is a bit like drinking beer out of a bottle all holiday and then having a beer out of a small glass and missing your mouth because your fuzzied brain has forgotten that the glass is 2 inches shorther than the bottle - or maybe that is just me 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rayscoops, I think it's pretty well everyone after a few!
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| Quote: |
I've postulated that before - and was met with some derision.
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not from me. I'm sure I hit my head more on things with my helmet on - how could you not, really, with the additional size? But it doesn't hurt. I've been struck on the head several times by twits bringing chairlift bars down with hysterical speed - both with and without the helmet. To me, there's no penalty for wearing a helmet and there just might (might) be a penalty for not wearing one. And as the cost is sunk, and my music library building up, it's not an issue for me, no decision to make.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, but they roll of the lunch table too - very annoying 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Very interesting point made by both rayscoops and laundryman that you seem to hit your head more often when wearing a helmet!
I don't often fall when skiing, not because I'm a good skier, but mainly because I'm pretty slow and careful. I can't remember banging my head even once in my twelve years of skiing without a helmet. But it has happened twice in the four years skiing whilst wearing a helmet! One time I even saw stars and thought 'Lucky that I was wearing this helmet otherwise that would have been much worse'.
Anyone want to buy a second-hand helmet from me? The evidence obviously shows that I might be safer without it 
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| Quote: |
they roll of the lunch table too - very annoying
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true. But they do provide somewhere to stuff your gloves! They don't do much for my hair, but not sure a woolly hat is any better. They should make helmets flat on top to prevent the rolling - like some of those Crusader helmets. Or stick a ring on, like Indian women use to carry water pots.
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Mr Marmot, in my first two years of boarding I took some almighty falls, some so bad that people actually stopped to see if I was alright. Funnily enough quite a few times when my helmet hit the hard packed snow I took comfort from the fact I was wearing a helmet (even though I was a bit groggy) and that I was a lucky puppy, yet with the tumbles I took without a helmet I never actually hit my head on the deck - although my hat did come off once
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, us the chin strap to clip it onto the back of your chair, sorted.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| Overall, I'm amazed by the number of reported head impacts on Snowheads. |
I've had a mild concussion at least once, probably twice, both times were prior to buying a helmet and the result of a high speed crash and hitting my head on hardpack snow. Lost a day and half of skiing on each occasion, one of which was during a rather expensive ski course.
I hit my head equally hard in a very high speed crash earlier this year but no concussion (although I wish my ribs had been as lucky). I can't say for certain if it was the helmet that led to a different outcome (I'm not inclined to do a controlled test on this), but my instinct tells me it did make a difference.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Dr John wrote: |
| pam w, us the chin strap to clip it onto the back of your chair, sorted. |
and then you can not squeeze through the cramped mountain cafes without setting of a cascade of ten pin 'helmet' bowls bouncing all over the place. They are the tools of the devil
I might yet get one though, just a matter of when I can be bothered
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
you can not squeeze through the cramped mountain cafes without setting of a cascade of ten pin 'helmet' bowls bouncing all over the place
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and quite a few of the places have bench style seats, too. One very nice resto in Crest Voland, where the proprietor is a bit of a control freak I suspect, provides special bag things to put everything in. Trouble is, if your gear is a bit damp, spreading it out all over the table is much better than stuffing it in a bag!
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You know it makes sense.
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pam w, tell me about it, coats, fleece, gloves, helmets - hardly enough room for the pie and chips and beer 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm in the no helmet brigade, for the reasons outlined by laundryman, andrayscoops.
My main concern is how much of the helmet 'craze' is being driven by marketing and fashion rather than genuine safety issues. Does anyone have any scientific evidence of the effectiveness of ski helmets in reducing head injuries while skiing?
I'm also concerned about where the helmet issue is going. It's obviously in the equipment industry's interest to persuade us that we need moere essential gear. Protective armour stuff is being pushed by e.g. Snow & Rock, and not just to racers. Equally there seems to be a lot more people with rucksacks and avalanche stuff around. (I fully accept that this may well be because more people are going off piste, but even so). It'll be interesting seeing what the next bit of kit that's deemed 'essential' will be.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Spud9, progress, change, development, they're all inevitable mate. But here's the thing, you don't have to buy everything that's marketed at you. You can still tool around in straight skis, leather boots and cable bindings if you want. Bet you don't though. You pick and choose the innovations that are relevant to your circumstances and choices.
You say that protective equipment is "being pushed" by SnR and others. I can't say I've ever had anything "pushed" on me, and I spend a fair amount of time mooching around such establishments. If by "pushed" you mean "stocked", then so what? Are you suggesting they should be kept under the counter, in the manor of a dirty movie? (psst, mate, got any spine protectors? Hold on John, meet me round the back in 5 minutes, hope you've got cash. Here's my personal mobile number, tell your mates)
The only things that are "essential" are skis, boots, trousers and a jacket (possibly gloves). The rest is up to you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dr John, Thin end of the wedge though innit? The cycling helmet debate has been comprehensively lost by the non helmet users and I think there have been a few attempts to introduce compulsory helmet wearing for cyclists. Equally it seems only a matter of time before insurance companies refuse to pay out on cycling accidents because the cyclist was negligent in not wearing a helmet (If it hasn't happened already). Ski helmet usage is following exactly the same path.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Spud9, tricky one. I know that cycle helmets are used as an analogy, but I don't see them as being completely comparable. When cycling you're likely to collide with things significantly larger, heavier and harder than you, and the pavement/road is made of concrete/tarmac. Skiing/boarding the conditions are much more variable. Also cyclists are cosseted by the law i.e. the presumption of driver guilt over cyclist responsibility. I'm only guessing here, but the issue of cyclist negligence would only come into play if it were a head injury being claimed for and no helmet was worn. Governments are bending over backwards to accomodate cyclists in cities, it's a brave insurance company that starts shafting cyclists claims and incurring the governments wrath.
How many skiers/boarders make an insurance claim involving a head injury? I haven't a clue, but I suspect it isn't many.
Random thoughts while munching a lunch time sarnie, could all be complete balls, obv.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Spud9 wrote: |
| Dr John, Thin end of the wedge though innit? The cycling helmet debate has been comprehensively lost by the non helmet users and I think there have been a few attempts to introduce compulsory helmet wearing for cyclists. Equally it seems only a matter of time before insurance companies refuse to pay out on cycling accidents because the cyclist was negligent in not wearing a helmet (If it hasn't happened already). Ski helmet usage is following exactly the same path. |
If wearing a helmet could reduce my winter sports premium each year, I'm all for it. Cyclists certainly on UK roads don't have or need insurance, so there's nobody to control them through that kind of thing, unless you made it law and it was enforced.
It's only the thin end of the wedge if you are concerned about that wedge. I'm not. Helmets are a sensible choice for people who want to protect their heads. If you don't want to do that, then you can take the risk. That's ok for me, but I'd rather that high risk people don't put up the premiums of lower risk people.
Unless, of course, you believe that hitting your head without a helmet on is likely to be more safe than hitting your head with one on. Though the number of people who think this seems to be getting smaller and smaller every year, and it seems to be just their personal choice - nobody in the ski industry is pitching scare stories at anyone, I bought my helmet because it made sense to me after having had several fairly major crashes over the years - including a few bumps that I wished I'd had a helmet on afterwards.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Does anyone have any scientific evidence of the effectiveness of ski helmets in reducing head injuries while skiing?
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It's fairly obvious that if you hit your head, having a couple of layers of nice carbon/plastic and crushable foam is going to take some of the force out of it. I don't know how much force they can take, but some where there is a line where one on side you are dead/brain damaged and the other heavily concussed, and a helmet will undoubtedly push that line along the scale in the right direction, it's the 'how much' it extends it that's debatable.
People say head injuries are unlikely, why don't you protect yourself form the more obvious injuries. Obviously a helmet won't protect you from something like a broken leg, which is a much more likely injury, yet a head injury is a much more serious prospect (brain damage/death as opposed to not walking for a while), it makes sense to me to minimise it as much as possible.
People who ski faster because they have a helmet on are an example of Darwinism - why on earth would protecting one part of you're body make the rest of it (the bits more likely to break) feel invincible?!
Completely against making them compulsory though.
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clarky999, nail/head (as it were). I agree wholeheartedly with all your points.
A severe head injury is the ultimate low probability/high consequence event. Witness the hole in the helmet photo earlier in the thread.
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I'm not a fanatic about this issue, and rather regret getting drawn into the debate. However I'll just say that I agree with some of the posts above, that in my subjective opinion, helmet wearers are more likely to hit their heads than non helmet wearers. People seem to have a very good head protection reflex which works in most circumstances. Putting on a helmet makes a bigger volume that can come into contact with something, therefore reflexive head protection will be less effective.
On a slightly seperate point I'm sure i've seen research showing that when in a dangerous activity you introduce safety measures, people compensate by indulging in more risky behaviour. I thought Jeremy Clarkson got it right in one of his rants about safety equipment in cars. He argued that, If you want people to drive safely and responsibly you would ditch airbags, ABS brakes etc and install a big rusty spike sticking out of every stearing wheel.
(Not generally a fan of Clarkson by the way, but this thought stuck with me).
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| Spud9 wrote: |
On a slightly seperate point I'm sure i've seen research showing that when in a dangerous activity you introduce safety measures, people compensate by indulging in more risky behaviour. I thought Jeremy Clarkson got it right in one of his rants about safety equipment in cars. He argued that, If you want people to drive safely and responsibly you would ditch airbags, ABS brakes etc and install a big rusty spike sticking out of every stearing wheel.
(Not generally a fan of Clarkson by the way, but this thought stuck with me). |
Unfortunately as an example in the 1950s they didn't have seatbelts, they didn't have airbags, they didn't have steering colums that would crumple - they had effectively a big spike pointing at the driver, with a nice piece of glass behind it for your unrestrained head to go through if you got that far. And drum brakes. The roads were a massivey more dangerous place compared to the number of cars, and minor collisions had the potential to kill and they did. The same could be said of helmets - a minor accident is just that if you've got one on, otherwise it could be a more major accident quite easily.
Sorry for drawing you into this one, but the analogy doesn't stack up for me.
However, and I will concede this - the people who drive very old cars which don't have all these safety devices on the road now, compared to modern cars, are a very very low risk category and are visibly more cautious drivers - see the costs of classic car insurance as an example, however this is balanced with the very limited mileage in most cases and the owners time and effort invested in a vehicle vs the cost of just going out an buying a car.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spud9, we have been here before. wrong. totally wrong as Monium points out . Have you even looked at year-by-year road death statistics?
And there is research showing no signs of adaptive behaviour in helmet users.
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OK. Still not going to buy a helmet though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Spud9, absolutely fine, nobody is trying to get you to buy a helmet, but don't quote complete rubbish which (should anyone not know that roads are hugely safer today, despite the big rise in traffic) might just mislead people.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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What makes me laugh about helmet threads is the number of people who wear them because they may be hit by an out-of-control muppet. None of them admit to wearing helmets because they are that out-of-control muppet! 
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brian
brian
Guest
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Urm, as i started this thread and have followed it with interest, one big thing springs to mind.
I am old enough ( just ) to remember when wearing helmets on a motorcycle became law, as my older brother moaned about it at the time. Now everyone wears one without thinking, unless of course you are of the sikh religion, then you are exempt.
Perhaps it should be made law, then the debate would be irrelevant, those against and for say aye or naye.
Still undecided by the way, but have bought a new pair of salopettes 
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Poster: A snowHead
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maggi, acute, as usual!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Timbobaggins wrote: |
| ......Perhaps it should be made law, then the debate would be irrelevant, those against and for say aye or naye..... |
Nanny knows best. You know it makes sense. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Natasha Richardson.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| lightningdan wrote: |
| Natasha Richardson. |
in-coming
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It's simple - don't ski if you are scared of getting a serious head injury while skiing
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Timbobaggins, you're trolling.
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| horizon wrote: |
| Timbobaggins, you're trolling. |
Nope, not guilty. You are Spartacus
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I skied for years without a helmet- but when I took my kids skiing we all wore helmets - its second nature now. I even think I should wear the body armour I have for motor biking !!!!
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Dr John,
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Also cyclists are cosseted by the law i.e. the presumption of driver guilt over cyclist responsibility.
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I wish, there have been several well documented cases of drivers killing cyclists and getting 3 points on the licence.
PS I'm a helmet sceptic but the debate has been thrashed to death.
PPS Against my own judgement I have just bought one. 
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FAQ
