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My technique and fat @rse

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I was going through some footage from last season and had a look at the movie below and I think my technique sucks.
Though pretty confident on the mountain now, my technique looks really naff, I seem to have my butt sticking out and be in a bit of a crouch
all the time.

Any tips on what's wrong would be great, I know a few of those turns are a bit skidded and I sometimes use my body weight
to throw myself around, but hey, it works for me. Am I facing too much across the fall line rather than down.

I am thick skinned so tell me what you think. ( apart from being over weight and under flexible, I know that already ! )

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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I don't know much about snowboarding but I can tell you need a new outfit. It should be vile coloured, baggy and your pants half way down you bum. wink


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 27-10-10 15:51; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Sarge, from a brief look at the vid, i'd say you need to bend your legs more to lower your centre of gravity. it'll help you not chucking your whole body around so much. but i'm not an instructor, so what the hell am i talking about?! Laughing
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There's an exercise on the BASI snowboarding video, turning with your hands on hips, to keep your upper body quieter. Or for a mere £6.33 you can get this DVD delivered http://www.amazon.co.uk/Go-Snowboard-Neil-McNab/dp/1405315741/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1288189967&sr=8-1&tag=amz07b-21

The first part will be too basic for you, though it's good on basic position, but the detailed focus on using the four corners of the board to turn (ie steering the board by using your feet in opposition to each other) is really helpful.

Or, of course, for the ultimate fix you could go on one of the McNab clinics http://www.mcnabsnowboarding.com/

I wonder if they do them for OAPs?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
+1 on the McNab DVD.

That's our bible and Mrs cad's boarding was described as 'awesome' by an instructor at a fridge recently. I have been reminded of this several times since Very Happy
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Lechbob wrote:
I don't know much about snowboarding but I can tell you need a new outfit. I should be vile coloured, baggy and your pants half way down you bum. wink


I'd already sussed that bit and got some medium baggy green trousers, but I refuse to expose my butt crevice to the elements !
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
+1 for the McNab DVD.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Sarge, I'm a (somewhat lapsed) instructor so here goes.

You need to work on getting your weight shifted forward onto your front foot. In your video, your weight is generally over your back foot, causing you to "force" your turns with your upper body and back foot. This is pretty common - probably more people you see on the hill have this fault than don't have it! You have a bit of a case of "rudder-arm" as well, but that's more or less related to the other issue.

I'd also recommend Neil McNab's book as suggested by pam w, but you'll need some patience. The best way to correct this issue is to really take things back to basics.

Break the start of the turn down into 3 steps, starting rom a position where both you and your board are orientated across the fall-line (i.e. you're facing straight up/down-hill):

1. Starting from a crouched postion, straighten up - this will start you moving and will "unweight" your board.

2. Shift your weight onto the front foot - do this by pushing off your back foot to slide your hips sideways. Keep your upper body straight up (a classic error here is to shift your shoulders over your front foot, sending your hips over the back foot, which means your weight has actually moved backwards!).

3. Pressure the toe (or heel, as appropriate) of your front foot to initiate the turn.

As you move through the turn, you can then drop your weight back down (reverse step 1 above), onto the front foot initially, then shift your weight back towards the centre (or even beyond centre) at the end of the turn - this helps give you the "pop" off the tail of the board into the next turn.

The McNab book and DVD will add a lot more detail to that and take it a lot further, especially the pressuring bit!

The best way to improve though is to have a session with a good instructor, preferably a private session.
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is that in Obergurgl
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Sarge, brave posting a video!

I'd pretty much agree with what the others have said, try and keep your upper body and arms more still, most of the movement should be subtle pressure changes with your feet. Bend your knees more which should help keep your ar$€ in and get your weight more on your front foot.
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"So, follow me down, not too far behind, and concentrate on my ar$e........."

Bet your mate slept with one eye open that night. wink

IANAE but ditto, not enough weight over your front foot (straight lead leg forcing you to lean back on occasion); steering with your rear; bit too leisurely rolling onto an edge, needs more snap; bit too rigid/deliberate, relax a bit more.

You're getting there though. Toofy Grin
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
All above advice is good - headlight on the front knee driving you through turns please.

Aim for 60% weight on front foot (and you might get 45%).

Cowboy arms not indie dancing.

IANLRAS
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Sarge, Boarding Skool was the video/dvd I used to improve. It's a tad dated and similar to the McNab one and really cheesy in places though quite good nonetheless once you get through the story section. I thought the McNab one was slightly overcomplicated for a dummy like me to remember sequences on the slope whereas Boarding Skool's use of 'accelerator' and 'brake' as prompts really helped as did all the other drills.
Ditto the hands on hips idea. I've tried keeping my hands behind my back and keeping them crossed at the front. It made for some spectacular falls but really helped me to get some way towards using my toes and heels and not fling my arms and shoulders around.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
stevomcd,

Quote:

2. Shift your weight onto the front foot - do this by pushing off your back foot to slide your hips sideways. Keep your upper body straight up (a classic error here is to shift your shoulders over your front foot, sending your hips over the back foot, which means your weight has actually moved backwards!).


I find that this is the key element, good advice.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
BCjohnny wrote:
"So, follow me down, not too far behind, and concentrate on my ar$e........."

Bet your mate slept with one eye open that night. wink
D


Yes, I ave been trying to cure my somewhat limp wristed action Embarassed

Thanks for all the advice folks, it does make sense, even standing here and shifting my hips the way stated makes me realise
that I've been trhrowing my whole body forward and non really transfering weight properly.

Yep, some private lessons are a must this winter and the DVD.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm afraid I disagree with some of the advice you have been given so far. People are telling you to get your weight foreword more, I think your weight is on your front foot most of the time, allowing you to easily "wipe" the board around with the back foot. Start the turn with a bit of forward weight but then move it aft throught the turn to get more grip. Also you are being told to keep your upper body still, I think you are keeping it still and just twisting your lower body as you turn onto your toe edge. As you turn onto your toe edge try to keep upper body aligned with lower body, i.e. let your shoulders come round the corner with the board and just turn your head with your neck to see where you are going.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

Start the turn with a bit of forward weight but then move it aft throught the turn to get more grip.

The McNab DVD does do a lot on that, with the weight going round the 4 corners (labelled A, B, C, D). I would find it easier to follow if the illustrations weren't all of a goofy rider - I think they should have a regular rider too, and show both!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
pam w, Yes, its a shame McNab chose a goofy rider. We redrew the diagrams to show a regular stance.
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Sarge,
Quote:
Any tips on what's wrong would be great, I know a few of those turns are a bit skidded and I sometimes use my body weight
to throw myself around, but hey, it works for me. Am I facing too much across the fall line rather than down.


What I'm seeing is:

* Lots of movement and twist in your upper body (check out your rear hand position in the Vid). This is giving you a balance and grip issues.
* To start your turns you are effectively kicking the board around with your rear leg (the last 2 are a tad better).
* So, your turns \ arcs are essentially 'Z' shaped, ie a quick turn with a traverse (so you are spending more of your time across the fall line).


To make it better:

1. Flexed ankles and knees, will help with balance.
2. Keep Upper body nice and still - think about pinching the fabric of your trousers on each hip with your hands to keep them under control. This will help give your turns a but more grip and help with balance. Think hips and shoulders in line with your board, head turned to look where you are going.
3. In terms of turn shape, try and be aware of how much time you are spending in each part of the turn (or even if you are still turning or not), and aim to spend an equal amount of time in each part, always turning.

Finally - you'd do well to get a few lessons from someone who know's their stuff, so that you can start using the board to turn you - rather then you turning the board, and sort out your posture.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
It's classic self taught backfoot steering rather than the more desirable heel/toe foot steering. Knees don't bend outside the toe edge of the board.

Stand on the board like a goalie facing a penalty (Brucie Grobelar jellylegs excepted).
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David Mediacopy, fatbob, snowrider, BCJonny and steveomcd
Thanks for all that. It is amazing how much you lot can tell me from 20 seconds of dodgy footage, but I think you have sussed me !

"Classic self taught, backfoot steering" sums it up so well ! I had 4 x 1hr lessons at Tamworth about 10 years ago, then did the odd day boarding each winter when on 2 planks, before getting myself a board and getting properly into it. Had 1 afternoon private tuition about 5 years ago and have since just cemented my bad habits.

I think the high hands and rudder steering are from my first lessons - "look and point where you want to go."

I also think a pre-season private session at Chill Factor will be usefull and I may even spalsh out for a week's lessons in Les Arc in February.
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looks ok for me, no sitting underneath brow of hill and no sideways scraping of all the fresh snow off the piste ....... Wink Twisted Evil

BTW How did you embed video???
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
kitenski wrote:

BTW How did you embed video???



Good question
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kitenski, Swirly, with a little help from his friends wink
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kitenski wrote:


BTW How did you embed video???


I up loaded it to Photobucket and there's a share option and one of the options is embed.

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Sarge, This is predominantly a result of 'duck' stance. We don't have the lateral knee flex to bring our weight to the insertion heel edge without dropping our backside into the 'squitz' position. You can minimise this by more lead leg knee flex with trailing leg 'pedal off' (toe lift) to compensate for the shallower board angle.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hi Sarge,

In watching your snowboarding, I get the impression you're a skier! I say this because I see a lot of counter-rotation. Notice how you try to keep your upper body facing down the hill nearly all the time, including during your toeside turns. Consequently, your heelside turns look balanced and relatively stable, but your toeside turns are fragile, short, and incomplete.

Counter-rotation works on skis because your legs only need to rotate less than 180 degrees each direction within the hip socket. However, on a snowboard, you're strapped in sideways. If you were to complete a toeside turn with your upper body facing down the hill, you'd have to rotate your legs 360 degrees! Shock

Let's fix this counter-rotation through a "rope" drill. (you don't even need rope!)

First task: head back to a green run for now. (it's temporary--once you're nailing this task, go ahead back to the blues.) Imagine you have a rope tied from your left shoulder to the tip of your board, and a rope tied from your right shoulder to the tail of your board. You can have a tiny bit of slack in your rope... but as your board turns around, your shoulders will need to follow. You will probably find it easier without any slack in the rope. Some people actually turn the board by turning the shoulders. This technique is ok at first, but eventually you want to initiate turning by turning your hips, and eventually by turning your knees and ankles. The core improvement though is to start rotating around with your board rather than fighting it. (Remember to tuck your chin over your left shoulder to minimize your blind spot.)

Go ahead and make one heelside turn and come to a stop. Then make one toeside turn and come to a stop. If you kept the cords between your shoulder and the tip of the board fairly tight, Your chest should be facing up the hill. Keep working at single turns until your shoulders are consistently coming around with your board. Then start linking your turns together. You should find your boarding more consistent.

You also noticed the other opportunity when you commented on your butt sticking out: balance. The good news is that you're bending to keep your balance in the centre of the board. We just need to change where you're bending. We want to actually flex through our knees, ankles, and a bit in the hips all in proportion. So let's increase the flex in our knees and ankles, and reduce the flex a bit in our hips through the "phone number" task.

Second task: head to a green run for now. imagine you pinned your phone number on the front of your chest. You want the other guys/girls on the hill to see your number! On a toeside turn, start in a balanced (fore/aft and side to side) loose position, arms over the tip and tail of the board. Facing down the hill about to start your turn, extend your legs while you initiate the turn (i.e. stand up). Then in the second half of the turn, as your board is pointed down the hill and as you continue to turn, begin to flex back down through your knees, while showing off that sign on your chest. Allow yourself to come to a stop. Your arms should still be over tip and tail, knees flexed so your butt's low, and chest visible to everyone up the hill. Do lots of these! Then link these turns together.

Once you're balancing over the board and managing the turn forces, you'll have a much easier time moving on to edge control, pivoting, and then off piste, short radius--even moguls!

Best of luck,

David
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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Im going through the process of dispensing with flaying arms and over rotation due to too much time spent on a dry slope when learning.

Several tips help me.
I try and keep my knees wide so pressuring the controlling points on the board more effectively, bit like trying to bend the board so the nose and tail ONLY touch.
I try and keep shoulders in line with the board.
I practise proper carving on wide pistes. I think about body postion in the carve, going from a squatted seated position on the heal side to a position not to dissimilar to take a pee on the toe side.
Feels amazing when you first do this Very Happy

Take a look at this it might help...


http://youtube.com/v/44KenqMrqI8

Tux
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Loads of great tips and hints here folks, thanks.
I am off to the Manchester snowdome on Monday 15th, so look out for me boarding with pockets stuffed with sheets of A4 !

Cheers.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Sarge, bend your knees, keep your shoulders in line with the board and stop waving that trailing arm about. Mr L made me board with my hands stuck to my bum until I stopped doing that. Laughing
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Lizzard, you had me worried there until I read your post again wink

Good advice though. I'd only add, don't forget to bend your ankles as well as your knees - on the toe edge.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
pam w,
Thanks for that DVD tip, just got for my birthday. Indeed, stuff at the start is a bit basic, but going back to basics is what I needed. I had a good sesh at Chill Factor and think I ironed out some of my issues, especially the rudder steering arms.
It will be good to put into practise some of the technical stuff on there and my kids will benefit from it hugely.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
pam w wrote:
Quote:

Start the turn with a bit of forward weight but then move it aft throught the turn to get more grip.

The McNab DVD does do a lot on that, with the weight going round the 4 corners (labelled A, B, C, D). I would find it easier to follow if the illustrations weren't all of a goofy rider - I think they should have a regular rider too, and show both!


cad99uk wrote:
pam w, Yes, its a shame McNab chose a goofy rider. We redrew the diagrams to show a regular stance.


Just view it through a mirror, lol.
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Drink beer and smoke tabs, mate.
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kevin mcclean wrote:
Drink beer and smoke tabs, mate.


now that's my sort of training schedule !
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I saw the thread title and momentarily thought it was about me.
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Wearing Speedos and a spray tan with some fruit on one's head will also do wonders.
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2 friends & i watched that mc nab dvd & the abcd thing just totally confused us all.
we're all quite experienced & know about foot / ankle steering but the dvd was just so over complicated. it made me feel like just giving up boarding altogether.

if they had a regular stance rider it would have been easier but also it's have been way clearer if they just said front toe side, back toe side, front heel side etc instead of abcd.
i spent all the time trying to remember which side was a,b,c & d rather trhan thinking about the turning.

just my opinion & maybe i'm just thick as many others seemed to have understood it ok.
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I'd have to agree, the ABCD bit with a goofy rider lost me a bit. I think the advise I got here was pretty much spot on,
keep my arms down and my body inline with the board rather than twisting and facing the nose.
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