 Poster: A snowHead
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Not a scandal involving tropical fruit (or are they herbs?) John Clark is forever going on about 'the banana gate' in slalom.
I'm assuming it's a gate that doesnt involve a change in direction (ie a right after another right) ...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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(.
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(.
.\ here's the banana 
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(.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yep, as far as I understand it it's the vertical combination of gates which, from our view is totally unfathomable but presumably from the skiers view in doable. Or maybe they are better than us 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| T-Dub wrote: |
| I'm assuming it's a gate that doesnt involve a change in direction (ie a right after another right) ... |
For a GS that is correct.
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II ( II
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II \ II
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II) II
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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When they are set horizontally, they are called open gates, when there is one gate set vertically, it is called a "banana"
a description and schematic of all the gates http://everything2.com/title/Slalom ,
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Scot_Ski, not quite. In that link the combinations drawn are sort of correct, but the descriptions are not (although what he shows as a verticale is more normally called a hairpin). What rjs has drawn above is the most common way a banana gate will be set, but as in that link it's possible to set using a vertical (aka closed) gate as well. T-Dub's description has the essence of it - two gates that form a single turn, generally wider and the rhythm slower than that of the surrounding gates.
In that link of Scot_Ski's there's also a bit of confusion regarding vertical gates. If there're two gates (both vertical or one vertical and one horizontal), such that the path involves two turns (i.e. you come out in the same direction you went in) the combination is called a "hairpin". Both the banana and the hairpin cause you to travel across the hill more than you would in a normal gate, but achieve that in rather different ways. FYI: if there are three gates (one of the end ones is sometimes set horizontally), so you come out the opposite direction you went in having made three quick turns, it's then normally called a "verticale" or "flush".
The following diagrams show these, including the following gate (to define the exit direction): R and B show red and Blue poles, the B(R)1 show the normal positions of the non-turning pole of the last gate in the combination, B(R)2 show the alternative placement (you can also do something similar with the entry gate).
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Hairpin Banana
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R. .
. R . R
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.R .
B2 .B B1 . B
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B1 . .
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R. R R. R
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Verticale/Flush
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.R
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R.
B.
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.B
R2 .R
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R1 .
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B. B
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oops that went all to cock cf the preview - hang on a bit and I'll try again
That seems to work now (on my screen anyway). If it looks funny, check that the outer pole of the last gate in the banana diagram is not wordwrapped
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Hahaaaa, glad you're all having fun avec 'le banane' or is it 'La Banane'......... GrahamN (Not THE GrahamN Shurely???) you have it pretty well spot on with your diagrams although no-one has set your B2/R2 Flush/Hairpins since I used to race! (Shortly after they stopped using red, blue, Yellow gates!
The idea with all of these 'Combinations' is to change the rythm of the course or the pattern of turns the racer has to make thereby adding what I call an 'extra tactical element to the challenge'. The racer has to adjust the line by modifying the timing of his movements and most often in a banana has to 'delay' the change from one turn to the next - in fact 'delay-gate' is another really common term for a banana.
Try it freeskiing it's a great exercise to improve your adaptability and ensure you are well balanced over the skis, 3 short turns then 2 slightly longer ones, then 3 short and so on.......
As noted above vertical gates (pairs of poles which form the individual gates are set straight down or close to the fall-line) are combined to create other classic combinations of 'Hairpin' - two gates.
Flush or Verticale (pronounced 'verticaley' comme les Francises) have 3 or more gates, again for a long time we never saw more thatn 3 gates in a flush now you'll usually get 2 or 3 '4 gate flushes' in a World Cup Slalom season, the flat at the end of the Ganslerhang at Kitzbuehel is a favourite spot for these......
We're seeing a lot more multiple combinations on the world cup, 'pin, single open gate, flush, open gate, banana, watch for when Ante Kostelic is setting,,,,,, Iw as in the gondola with Anja Paerson and Janica Kostelic 'scuse the blatant name dropping  ) one time (World Champs in Sta Caterina I think) and Anja was saying to Janica, (Swedish Accent for effect) "What the Hell is your father trying to doo to us? Tie us in knots?" as we were looking down at the course below us,,,,, sorry you had to be there really!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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jcjc, Aw I feel a bit daft after the comment above and then it turns out you are reading after all.
Anyway, same stands, great stuff and looking forward to Levi on Eurosport.
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| jcjc wrote: |
| no-one has set your B2/R2 Flush/Hairpins since I used to race! |
I'll take your workd for it on snow. On the dry slope circuit though, I'd say you see as many "B2" hairpins as "B1". This may be to make it less confusing for minis - you quite often see them skiing round the lower "B1" gate and then wondering where the next gate has gone. (And I must admit to having done a "B2" once myself, completely ignoring the subsequent R gate - although I wasn't really concentrating having picked myself up after a course half-way down, and so having an appalling time anyway). I've also seen a few "B2" bananas, although mostly in training courses and probably the only one I've seen in a national level race was a sort of half-way-house - the gate set 45 degrees to the fall-line - at the Club National (or maybe the GP, I can't remember which now) at Chill Factore this summer.
(Not quite sure who "the GrahamN" is - I'm sure I'm only "a GrahamN", but I can only find one other "me" on the Googlesphere, and he's my cousin's son in north America.)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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GrahamN, The FIS rules have changed, latest (summer) precisions state "The gates in hairpin or vertical combinations must be set in a straight line".
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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jcjc, how the hell are you doing....... long time not speak, I see you are slumming it round europe again this season
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You know it makes sense.
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AH YES, SNEAKING BACK AND FORE BETWEEN THE SNOWS OF SCOTIA AND LES ALPZ..... GOOD FUN SO FAR SO HOPE FOR MORE OF THE SAME IN THE COMING WEEKS! JC
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