Killingto, Stowe and Smuggler's Notch

A snowHead

Thinking of visiting some resort in Vermont when going to New York for Christmas.

Any feedback from these resorts will be appreciated, especially for mid Dec. Thinking of flying from New York to Burlington, hire a car, drive to Killington for a few days then back to Stowe and Smuggler's notch for another few days.

If Vermont isn't a good choice which resorts near NYC would be a better bet in Mid Dec?

A snowHead

We used to live near NY and visted loads of New England's ski areas.

I think you have picked the best three, and certainly the best three for that early in the season.

Be prepared for almost any weather or snow condition. It never ceased to amaze me how my colleagues at work in NYC would say "no point in skiing in Vermont, it is pure ice", and that on a monday morning after a mega powder weekend!
On the other hand I was at Gore once when the authorities cleared and closed the mountain at 1.00 pm or so once the sun went behind the hill necause the temp with wind chill was -70f.....OMG COLD!

In the Killington/Stowe area I would say Okemo and Mount Snow might be worth a day trip too.

You will have fun.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Thanks runqsp

I have skied a few times in the Scottish resorts and came across ice before. The Scots told me if I could ski there I should be able to ski anywhere in the world.

-70F is about -27C. That is cold enough for me and I have experienced it in Hemsedel in Norway, Are in Sweden and Les Arcs in France . In Scandinavia they have heated warm rooms for skiers to get inside to recover after a period of exposure in the cold but we were shivering down the Aigiulie de Rouge in France. Not nice at all.

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saikee, we have skied Stowe a few times, mostly February/March but a couple of years ago we were there around 28th December for a week. Great snow then, cold but then it has always been cold in Vermont for us so equipped for it. Its the one occasion that I have resorted to those tea bag hand warmers. We love Stowe and always happen to return there - we have been to Killington as well but preferred Stowe - I suppose I like the 'pretty' effect.

What we do miss are the small stopping places for drinks, coffee etc - we are very spoilt in the PDS, always somewhere around the next corner but we have a few spots we use.

Hope you have a great time.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

From my experience if you're only able to go to one I'd recommend Killington although we went in late Jan so couldn't comment on snow in December.
We went to Stowe a few years back and found that they seemed to close lifts due to wind alot. It was particularly frustrating to have to drive/bus from the two main lift areas, although i believe this is fixed by a new gondola. Stowes certainly a prettier place than Killington but like most US resorts its really a long strip so you need a car to go anywhere.
I believe they have officially closed the link between Stowe and Smugglers which is a real shame, if they got their act together linked they'd be be a much better resort.

Have fun.
This may be a topic which a search over at TGR would prove fruitful. You may even like to post a question but you'd better have the nekkid pictures to hand Twisted Evil

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saikee, you think -27C is cold?
Recheck your conversion....
-70f is -56C....that is cold!
Dangerous cold.
Closed mountain cold!

Believe me....nobody complained.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Yep, when I was in Stowe it was allegedly -40 (where the graphs cross but people always exaggerate these things don't they) - I've endured similar in Canada and the US Rockies but somehow it is more unpleasant in the east. Anyhow, it warmed up. Much prefer Stowe to Killington - a better ski mountain and nicer, more characterful village. Killington is all strung out and you find yourself driving absolutely everywhere - Pickle Barrel & Wobbly Barn fun though. Don't forget to visit Ben & Jerrys HQ and factory stores in Burlington.

After all it is free

If you do go to Killington, stay in Rutland (the Me, Myself & Irene location). Its bars sell great beer to Simpons homeboys, it feels real hick & is actually better for it.

Killington itself does have quite a lot of skiing but somehow doesn't feel like a 'real' mountain. It's about the same proportions (vertical and volume) as say a small Lake District Fell but manages to make almost every square yard part of a ski run. Very efficient lift network & great instructors too.

If you're going to fly to Burlington & hire a car there's no sense in driving south to Killington. You'll already be in northern vermont, so stay up there, conditions are likely to be better anyway. I'd take a look at hitting Sugarbush & Stowe. Smuggs too, although they'll be much more dependant on natural snow, which may or may not be in abundance in Dec. If you like tree skiing you could hit Jay Peak as well, which is about 1.5hrs north of burlington. Jay is most likely to have the most snow at that time of year. Although I'd only recommend going there if you like skiing in trees. Otherwise it's not worth it

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

rungsp

Yes you are right with the temperature. I calculated it by knocking 32 off and then multiplied with 5/9 which is only correct for temperature above zero.

-56C is something I haven't experienced yet.

Looks like we have to bring the boot warmer kits along.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

saikee, Stowe is the only place that we have used our face masks. Quite a variety of places to eat in the evening -

snow reports

Come on! It's not ALWAYS cold in New England! It could be warm enough you got rain! wink

Given that time of year, I'd say Stowe is probably your best bet. Keep in mind it's not cheap there.

I've never skied Smuggler's Notch. Don't forget the road between Stowe and Smuggler is closed in the winter. You have to go almost all the way back to Burlington to get to Smug.

Killington is the biggest mountain there but it's really disorganized. Make sure you don't end up in the wrong base at the end of the day too.

As a piste skier, you might enjoy Okemo and Stratton even more. It's within day trip distance from Killington. So if you don't like big K, get in your car...

I have done something similar to what you are planning, except i flew to toronto then got a train to niagara falls then picked up the hire car in Buffalo, and went on to killington, boston and then NYC. Cold isnt the word i would use, seriously cold still isnt even close to what me and my fiancee experienced over there. On the train arriving at niagara it was -32c, the next day it was -43c and windy aswell. I had the following clothes on and was still freezing cold, leggings, tracksuit bottoms, jeans then a pair of ski pants, 3 t-shirts, 2 fleeces and my ski coat. it did nothing, i was numb with cold. The river which flows over niagara falls was frozen solid say 200 metres above and below the falls, the falls were still flowing though. My fiance got frost nip on her bum which was rather painfull for her. Below are some pics from our holiday.

here is one of the major tourist attraction in the world with only us 2 there, this pic was taken minutes after i proposed!!! look at the frozen river under the falls.

here we are just after "she said yes" Very Happy

Take note of all the ice which is about 4" thick on everything it touches. This is from the spray of the falls.

The top of killington peak looking North East

Not a bad view from our hotel room, again killington peak.

From the car park looking up to the ski area

There is a swimming pool under there apparently, check out the icicle!!!

You know it makes sense.

Weather/conditions in New England are a complete guess. You could have anything from complete coverage with fresh powder to thin cover, rain, and ice. In general places will really crank the snowmaking before the Christmas holiday so you'll usually have quite a bit to ski. If you're skiing between Christmas and New Years any of these places will be pretty busy. Smugglers Notch, though right on the back side of Stowe, is a longer drive because you have to go around. Smuggs has no high speed lifts, caters to families, but does have good terrain. IMO, Stowe village is really world class. It's charming and has numerous restaurants and pubs. Stowe is not great for late night partying, if you're looking for that. Killington has more terrain though spread across several peaks. Killington has one of the most extensive snowmaking systems in NE. Killington village is more of a strip along the highway; IMO it's not nearly as charming as Stowe but has more active late night party scene. Another place to consider is Sugarbush; sort of 2 separate areas. Sugarbush South is more developed and generally busier, Sugarbush North has more of a retro feel and rarely suffers from really bad crowds. Both have a diverse range of terrain. Village is less centralized and concentrated than Stowe and quieter at night than Killington, but there are some nice spots in the Valley. Okemo is further South. It offers lots of intermediate terrain, great snowmaking, great grooming, and is often crowded. If you're an intermediate there's really a lot of intermediate terrain at Okemo and many (most) of the blacks will be very comfortable for a decent intermediate. Stowe and Sugarbush definitely offer more challenging terrain. Mount Snow is another mountain with a huge snowmaking infrastructure. We skied there 2 years ago at Thanksgiving and they had quite a bit of terrain covered and the skiing was very good. Last year at Thanksgiving it wasn't open -- that's NE weather. Almost the entire front face is fairly easy intermediate crusing terrain. The North face is steeper and usually has some bump runs and tree skiing, but again the resorts further North generally have more challenging terrain. Hope you get good weather and have a great time. Skiing in NE can be fantastic. When conditions are good I just think Stowe is a fantastic mountain and I've really good days at Sugarbush. But the weather is pretty much a spin of the roulette wheel.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Ricklovesthepowder,

Great pictures!

RISkier

Good information! I shall avoid the Christmas crowd.

A snowHead

We enjoyed Killington but overall left a little disappointed. Went complete to tackle boilerplate ice and freezing conditions, but it was warm and rained the last day, so had fun in Burlington instead. Resort is indeed a drawn out strip and you really need a car, although ski bus service is good and hotels run minibuses. Equipment hire was shambolic and lift queues badly managed (it's not supposed to be like that). Ski area is compact with lots of intermediate runs.

A snowHead

When we went to Killington we kept wondering where the mountain was. It's always great to ski, wherever you are, but we'd driven seven hours to Killington on a recommendation because I'd laughed one time too many about another place calleed Hunter Mountain. You could get there on a bus from New York, which was great, but you'd ski the place by elevenses. So we drove to Killington, which like Stowe had the local reputation. Who knows where that reputation came from ?
In short, it's a long way to go for not very much, so if you're going from New York and want to do a couple of turns, go to Hunter which is pretty close.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

saikee, I will send you a message later on this evening about the place in more detail,'including snowmobile trekking, wow what an experience!!!

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Another thing to consider is that if you are going to do Killington it's really not worth flying to Burlington to rent a car to get there. You can just drive from NYC. It's about 4.5hr drive in normal traffic. If you do plan on Northern VT (Stowe, Sugarbush, etc), then flying to Burlington may be better. For Killington plenty of people in NYC go up just for the weekends, so it's a very doable drive. Personally though, I'd recommend Stowe, Sugarbush, Smuggs, Jay (for tree-skiing) at that time of year

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I forget what it is called but there's a great micro-brewery in Stowe that you should check out if you end up there.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Ah, The Shed! Brings back memories!

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Finally got myself booked with flights, car hire and two accommodations; one in Killington and another in Stowe.

The Internet information suggests the 8 to 9 miles link road between Stowe and Smugglers' Notch is close for winter.

My question is any recommended route to ski Smugglers' Notch fron skier staying in Stowe? There is a loop to the east side through Hyde Park which is some 32 miles long. Is this route viable?

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

The winter route from Stowe to Smuggs is the one through Hyde Park. The road through the notch is closed in winter. As has been mentioned, weather Christmas week can be most anything. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Usually the conditions are marginal and the weather is dull and gray. Ski early in the day. It will be colder, but the snow will be better and the slopes less crowded. Stowe is a much nicer place to be and ski than Killington, but you'll have a chance to compare and contrast the two. I'd recommend a stop at Sugarbush on your way from Killington to Stowe. That's a better option than Smuggs. PS -- I live in Vermont so I've skied a lot of Christmas weeks here.

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choucas,

Thanks for the tips. Think I would try out Sugarbush on the day I move the camp from Killington to Stowe.

Current plan is to fly from JFK, NYC to Burlington by the 09:00 flight. Pick up a 4x4 and then drive to Killington in good day light. I might check out Sugarbush on my way down to KIllington, taking the Road 100 instead of i89.

I have booked 3 nights in Killington so there will be two skiing days there with the first day spent on the relax travelling. My 5 nights stay in Stowe will be used up 2 days in Stowe, 2 days in Smugglers (current plan) leaving a leisurely day to drive from Killington to Stowe.

I could use this travelling day to ski half a day in Killington as it is only 80 miles from Stowe or as you suggested to spend in Sugarbush. I can spend the whole day in Sugarbush and then drive the 32 miles to Stowe even in the dark. I do have a Tom Tom Sat Nav which proved very useful when I skied the Colorado resorts this Mar.

I shall drop the 4x4 back to Burlington on 25 Dec and fly back to NYC by the 11:30 flight.

Hope the above plan reasonably water tight.

You know it makes sense.

Highway 100 is pretty but can be somewhat slow since it winds through several villages. If it's night or stormy you might want to stay on I89 as much as possible. Otherwise 100 will give you a more scenic tour of Vermont. If you're touring and checking out Sugarbush you might want to check out Mad River Glen as well. MRG is owned by a cooperative of skiers and is very retro. They recently replaced the single chair lift with, another single. Don't trust your GPS if it tells you to follow RT 100 through Stowe to Smuggs. I know a lot of folks were stopping at the Matterhorn (a bar near Stowe Mountain) and were trying to figure out how to get across to Smuggs. Rt. 108 is always closed during the winter and is closed just past Stowe Mountain Resort. From Stowe you need to loop around to the East to get to Smuggs. At Stowe we usually hit the main mountain early and then move over to the Spruce side later in the day. Spruce faces South and often has better light later in the day that time of year. Sugarbush is definitely worth a visit or two.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Ive found it!!! After 2 weeks of looking for the place we went snow-mobiling!!! Whatever you do DO NOT USE THE COMPANY which is advertised everywhere from killington about snow mobiling. They are a rip off and make you feel very uncomfortable. We went and it was like $200 to do an hour tour on the snowmobile, they wanted $500 cash deposit per snowmobile, i asked can it not be taken on a card, they said no, take it or leave it, so we left it. When we were driving away the blokes, of which there were about 8 all came out and started throwing ice and snowballs at our hire jeep. Please dont use this company. We drove back to our hotel in killington gutted as we all wanted to do snow mobiling, then somehow i found this magical little place a short drive away which was not advertised anywhere really. I phoned up and spoke to the person who runs the tours, and i couldnt believe my luck, it was about $60 for half an hour and it was just us on the tour, the tour actually went on for probably 45 minutes so we got longer that stated. It goes through some magical scenery and down to a frozen lake a few miles away. They also do sleigh rides and snow shoeing and cross country if thats your kind of thing. When i turned up i only ad my timberland boots on, he said do i not have anything else i could wear which i didnt. he said dont worry mate i will nip home and get you some of mine, so he hoped on his personal snowmobile, went home and got me some of his proper outdoor boots, they were so comfy! After our tour we went back into this little wooden lodge where all the locals were watching Obama getting taken into the White House for the first time. There we sat for an hour or so infront of this log fire burning away, being served this homemade hot chocolate and cookies which had just come out of the oven. We sat there watching the tv with the locals. The 4 of us were made to feel like family and non of us will ever forget this moment until the day we die, it was so special. Here is the link to the place, make sure you go for an afternoon, it was something very special. I will try and find some of the pictures for you. below are the links for the place.

http://mountaintopinn.com/ccskiprogram.html

http://www.mountaintopinn.com/

A snowHead

Sounds like your plan is solid. Second the recommendation for Mountain Top Inn. It's a great spot near Killington if you want to take a day off from downhill skiing and see some of the local countryside via snowmobile, xc skis or snowshoes. Mad River is an option if you're heading from Killington to Stowe, but it has very little snowmaking so unless there is a huge dump of snow Christmas week, the best parts of the hill (the steep, narrow spots in the woods) will be more rocks than snow.

A snowHead

choucas, no way have you been there. Its a stunning little place right off the beaten track!!!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I live near there.

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choucas, that may explain it then lol. Where abouts do you live, i travelled around quite a bit when i was at killington.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I live about 30 miles north of there in Middlebury.

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Killingto, Stowe and Smuggler's Notch

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