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Older people learning to Snowboard

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
As an intermediate standard 2 plank skier (reds & blues) i am curious to get to grips with Snowboarding.

With the advent of 57 years of wear and tear on my now dodgy knee and ankle joints i am wondering if contemplating learning to Snowboard is a wise choice after many years as a skier?

Would it be asking too much of my body to go through the punishment it would take whilst enduring the learning process of Snowboarding?


I am halfway through a serious campaign to lose weight that i have put on over the last 2 years.

At the beginning of June this year i was 20 Stone 7lbs Embarassed

I am now 17 Stone 7lbs.

My target weight for the end of December is 15 stone 7lbs and i will get there.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 12-10-10 11:11; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
cc_7up, Mrs cad and I started snowboarding at 50 with no previous snow sliding experience. Go for it. Our 5 week snowboarding trips are now mandatory.

Make sure you wear lots of protection: helmet, impact shorts, wrist guards, back protector, elbow and knees!

We learnt on dendex: probably best not to. Board in a day at a fridge looks a good idea.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
cc_7up, good on ya. i guess it would really depend on your level of fitness to start with; if you're relatively fit, you'll prob do better than a v unfit 20-something yo. all i can suggest is borrowing some impact shorts and knee pads/support. theoretically, your ankles should be fine. but don't quote me on that one.
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Quote:

Would it be asking too much of my body to go through the punishment it would take whilst enduring the learning process of Snowboarding?


Hmm. Good question. I was a little older than you when I learnt, and still only go out for the occasional half day when conditions are perfect (that's probably why I am still rubbish). If you wear the obvious protection, get good lessons and choose your conditions right (hard, icy pistes are really not nice for beginners on snowboards) you'll probably enjoy it. It's very satisfying to learn something completely new, provided you are reasonably fit. But yes, you fall a lot and some of the falls (the edge catching ones, almost always a result of being too scared to fully commit yourself to the edge you ought to be on) are fairly spectacular. But it's far easier to get up on a board than on skis, the boots are heaps more comfortable and it makes a nice change.

I started with a "learn to snowboard in a day" course at Milton Keynes. The pain two days later was unbelievable (DOMS). I couldn't get up on one elbow in the night to reach for my glass of water. Spending 6 hours on a board in one day, when you've never done it before, is maybe not the cleverest idea.

I'd say that snowboarding - even once you're good at it - is physically more demanding than skiing. I have a son who is very good at both, though a better skier than boarder probably, and he reckons so. He boards till he drops on powder days and skis when there's no nice fresh stuff around, or if he needs a bit of a rest.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
cc_7up, you could give it a go at the next snowHeads Ski Club at Hemel if you fancy a trip down the M1...
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cc_7up, i'd recommend wrist guards to anyone learning to board... and before anyone starts the "SIDEWAYS YOU OAF! THEY HAVE TO LEARN TO FALL PROPERLY" yes i know, but instinct means people put their hands out until they DO learn to fall properly and thats why we protect the wrist with wrist guards.

As for physically demanding, from my limited personal experience of two planking boarding IS possibly more demanding of the muscles, but less punishing on joints.
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Where was that thread about learning to snowboard - boredsurfing? That would make an interesting and relevant read.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Richard_Sideways, I have to agree - from mine - also very limited - experience, boarding was easier on joints - specially my knees - than skiing - but maybe sometimes more harder on muscles. But it all could be down to technique.

On my second week on snowboard, there was a guy over 60 in the chalet - boarding - much much better/quicker than me - half his age!
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this thread is great...

My folks have now booked to come on our holiday to Courchevel in March with us. Neither have ever been on skis or board. My mum (61) has decided to ski, and dad (65) to baord. Should be interesting.

They've booked block lessons at the local dry slope to get them started before going on holiday and i wait with baited breath to see how they get on.

I'm looking forward to it Very Happy
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shoogly, this might be a bit hard to start on the dry slope - soft snow is much better and they will have much nicer first impression. But then if you learn on dry, real snow will be easier Very Happy
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I was a bit younger when I started, with only 40 years of wear and tear, but one of the tears was to my PCL (knee ligament), which isn't repaired, and I guessed that if someday I added an ACL tear (the classic skiing one) to that, then the whole leg might fall off. Sad Hence boarding, and I agree with the others that it's easier on the joints, particularly the knees.

However I would advise you to stick to skiing unless you have some half decent new snow. I was incredibly lucky and about a foot of powder fell on each of my first three days. So falling was like flopping down on a big soft duvet. I went at easter the next year and after a couple of mornings on the ice very nearly packed it in. I think if I had started that year I probably would have given up and gone back to the planks.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Have some good lessons in a small group or private and you will be fine. I dont recommend board in a day (crash courses are called that for a reason!). Get impact shorts and knee pads and practice falling on these and then onto your forearms rather than wrists / thumbs.
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shoogly, respect to your dad. Shocked Learning to board on a dry slope is really, really hard. I wouldn't even try but my son in law (a PE teacher who is an expert windsurfer, good footballer, does ice climbing etc and is a strapping young lad) did and found it tough.

The "board in a day" course did what I wanted - which was to give me an idea whether this was something I wanted to continue with. It was partly my own fault I was so horribly stiff as instead of spending half an hour doing a whole lot of stretching afterwards I got back in a car and driving 2.5 hours home.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=59870&highlight=
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Tamworth fridge not too far away for the original poster and they have done a great job of teaching me and the 3 kids to ski (me skiing for my first time in my mid 40s) and middle daughter to board as well. Folks on here will say Tamworth tends to be icy, after seeing what others call icy at the EoSB (with only a week in the mountains and some lessons and practice at Tamworth fridge behind me) I have to agree but that said I had a load easier time of it loving the early morning icy and learning to cope with the afternoon soft and slushy than some of the other low mileage skiers used to softer snow had in coping with conditions first thing in the morning.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
As a heavy chappie myself I must say that boarding is easier on the knees given you tend to weight them fairly evenly all the time.

I'd say keep to soft snow. You catch an edge more, but it's a softer landing.

The most dangerous time is when you don't have both feet in the bindings, e.g. dismounting a chair lift.

You will not progress unless you embrace the likelihood of catching an edge. It is the severe punishment for catching an edge that teaches you not to. You must not fear it, you must learn not to do it. Fear will halt your progress.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
crosbie, you're quite right of course. The only time I hurt my knee was exactly as you said, one foot out, dismounting a chairlift. Now I get both feet in on the way up (flows).
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I guess that riding a drag lift on a Snowboard c/w soft boots is a skill that has to be learned and mastered early on.

I am also a Mono skier and as such i do not enjoy riding T- bars or Poma tows for obvious reasons which is why i prefer resorts with a minimum of drag lifts.
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people who struggle to get off chairlifts should practise their skate technique. start on a flat section to get used to the movements involved, then on inclines, maintaining the one-foot-out technique, using the back of your heel (or front of your toe depending on which you prefer) to steer the board. stomp pads make this loads easier, otherwise just employ the back foot next the the back binding/technique favoured on a poma lift.

you will do yourselves a huge favour if you do this, cos you'll become more confident, and therefore a better snowboarder.

oh, and remember to keep your knees bent. it helps to keep your weight centred, and this should make you more stable.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
cc_7up, people seem to vary in how well they get to grips with drags. I've seen some beginners figure them out pretty quick (before they've even done turns properly). And then I think some people get in them knowing they're going to be pulled over (several times in a row before they give up and realise they need to change their attitude).

You've got to think you've only one (leading) leg - the back leg is only along for the ride, to act as ballast. And perhaps treat the pole/button/t-bar as if it's trying to pull you over.

Once you've got the hang of the start, it's then a matter of not relaxing or losing the correct weighting throughout the journey - and perhaps learning to instantly recover if you do. It can become uncomfortable and you look forward to the end. Once expert, you can relax - given your body learns to automatically react to restore balance in the event of jolts. You still despise skiers' wiggly furrows though.

Sometimes, if you have step-ins it can be easier to click the rear foot in just before you grab the poma, but this is sometimes frowned upon (especially if you look like you don't know what you're doing). I used to do this a lot. Now I just do it if it looks particularly hairy/fierce.

I used to groan at drags. Now their only downside is you don't get to sit down, relax and chat.
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Im considerable younger than yourself, but learnt when I was 39/40 (now 44).

I learnt on bracknell astro turf. I would not recommend this or any artifical surface in anyway! It really hurts! Go to the domes!!!

When learning, I would certainly recommend flow bindings. Im not as flexable as I used to be hence flows were a blessing.
But once you venture off-piste, ditch the flows. They are downright dangerous in deep powder.

Bum pads, wrist guard and helmet are a must. I would also recommend a soft pair of knee pads just to allow your knees to be comfy when kneeling.

Fittness wise, situps and pushups should be in your regime. Why? Because when your learning, you will be doing alot of situps and pushups Very Happy

Also get some upper body muscle mass. Muscle is great armour and weight training strengthens bones.

well done of the weight loss... I was over 18st at one point and now down to 15 1/2.

tux
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I'll keep everyone updated with their progress Very Happy
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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shoogly, try to persuade them to go to a Dome. It's kinder. I'm very idle about getting up I'm afraid - always swing the board over and get up on the toeside, which requires no sort of strength or flexibility at all. I do agree that muscles are good though you don't need to be Charles Atlas (i'm a little old lady). Having decent flexibility is important too, as you're then less likely to injure yourself on a fall.

It's probably best to have someone similar to yourself learning with you. I learnt a bit with my son's then girlfriend. We had a lesson together and practised - we had a different attitude to it, though. She fell much less than I did, and did a lot of side slipping. I tended to go for turns and deck it fairly frequently. We usually got to the bottom of the nursery slope together! she had a cushion stuffed down her salopettes. I have proper armoured knickers. and wrist bands. And initially I wore knee pads, but they were a bit uncomfortable and I ditched them after a while. The way I learnt to fall "properly" was nothing to do with wrists. All to do with bums. I had fallen on my coccyx enough to make it extremely sore (just those little "failure of nerve" plops off the back edge). It became so sore to fall on that I would fling myself energetically onto combination of hip and shoulder which hurt much less, and also gave me the momentum to usually roll straight over onto the toe edge and stand up. It really is hugely easier than getting up after a fall on skis on a flattish slope.

It's a pity that your parents aren't going to learn together. Couldn't you persuade them both to have a go at skiing, which is probably a bit less punishing, frankly, for an elderly gent? Or both board?

I look forward v much to hearing of their progress.
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This sort of crosses into the other thread I highlighted and I've tried to maybe understand what might be going on (yes, the thinking was painful).

Shoot me down if I'm wrong, or if this has been mooted before, but I think it may boil down to this.

I've said, for as long as I've been sliding, that I think it's quite possible for people in their sixties, and seventies, to learn to ski, but probably not learn to snowboard. The kind of thing you say, without trying to quantify, which just seems a bit obvious, but why? So here goes:

Out of the two disciplines I think skiing is the more disposed to being taught, but more importantly understood, by people wishing to learn. Just by perservering, and copying instruction, you can normally get up to a certain level that gives you a sense of satisfaction, and enjoyment that people are more than happy with, and it gives them a feeling of achievement that makes the whole thing worthwhile. As such it can span the age groups from toddlers to coffin dodgers.

Snowboarding on the other hand I think is more of an intuitive discipline, one that relies more on reactions, ability and confidence than a capacity to learn. As such it probably suits younger people, within reason, the younger and fitter the better. I'm not sure, beyond the basics*, it can be "taught" in the same way skiing can. Skiing can be taught, quite rightly, up to quite finite standards, in a way boarding can't. Boarding, as people realise, is just simply something you can do, or can't, there being a tipping point you never get over, or just can't be ar$ed to chase.

I think it's as simple as that. I'm in no way trying to say say one is better than the other, nor are any of the people who try to do either. Just different. The main thing that skiing and boarding have in common is the medium, very little else.

And then once you factor in the frequency of falling, pain, tiredness, frustration etc, I think it's easy to see why otherwise competent older skiers, who try to board, just give it neck.

My dos centavos......Over to you.........

*("What's the difference between a learner and a snowboard instructor? About two weeks........")
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pam w, like your point about going to a snowdome - i actually raised that point with them last night and do you know what reply i got....

"that sounds a bit too serious - we're only doing it for a bit of fun! Learning on the toothbrush stuff will do..."

I laughed, and left them to it! Shocked
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BCjohnny, yeah, however old you are, you have to WANT to snowboard. You can't just do it because you think it might impress the birds/be a useful skill to have, or is just yet another 'been there, done that' activity to tick off the list of things you thought might be fun learning given time. The 'want' has to be big enough to overcome the "Why the heck am I doing this given it's so goddamn dangerous, painful, awkward, and ungraceful?" hurdles.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
BCjohnny, there's a lot in that. However, one of the things which helped me hugely when I was trying to learn to snowboard was a book and DVD by Neil McNab, called "Go Snowboard". He focusses on the flow of pressure between the 4 corners of the board. I sat in an armchair and tried to figure it out (not helped by the fact that all the illustrations and DVD feature a goofy boarder and I am regular). I found that the "visualisation" was enormously helpful. At about that time I had a long and complex dental thing done - a tricky root canal - and I snowboarded my way through the whole thing.

Next time I got on the board it all went much better.

However, I do strongly agree that younger, fitter, stronger, braver people will do it far easier and far quicker. But I've seen young, fit, well co-ordinated, brave people learn to ski remarkably well and remarkably quickly with scarcely any instruction too.

The big difference I suppose is that if you get from one edge of a board onto the other and you're still on your feet you have "done a turn" even if it's done by brute force and ignorance (I understand that boarders who do one of the McNab courses often have to unlearn the way they've been turning the board by force). On skis you can cheat.

I do think that for older beginners skiing is probably the better choice - because if they are well taught, and reasonably apt, they need scarcely fall over and even quite fit older people - for example if they do quite a bit of strenuous walking - don't bounce as well as 17 year olds.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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shoogly, with a rented board, good padding and gloves, the toothbrush stuff ain't too bad. An intensive 2 hour crash course in boarding can teach the basics well enough to save your money for a trip to the mountains rather than a snowdome. It depends what's nearer/cheaper in terms of time & money. If the snowdome is 4 hours away and the dry slope only 1 hour away, I'd say the dry slope has the edge. You can always put some polish on the board if you want a bit more speed. Twisted Evil
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

Snowboarding on the other hand I think is more of an intuitive discipline, one that relies more on reactions, ability and confidence than a capacity to learn. As such it probably suits younger people, within reason, the younger and fitter the better. I'm not sure, beyond the basics*, it can be "taught" in the same way skiing can. Skiing can be taught, quite rightly, up to quite finite standards, in a way boarding can't. Boarding, as people realise, is just simply something you can do, or can't, there being a tipping point you never get over, or just can't be ar$ed to chase.


I'm actually quite stunned at this. Complete nonsense.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
stevomcd, I agree with the first part of it, but not (as I indicated above) the second. The example I gave of the very specific teaching in the Mcnab book and DVD helped me a lot and I initially "learnt" it entirely theoretically, hundreds of miles from the snow. I do agree, though, that lots of young people can learn to snowboard OK, or even well, without any lessons, just mucking round with mates. The same way they learnt to skateboard. Snowboarding can most definitely be taught (though it's not always taught well as many instructors, at least in the past, were basically ski instructors who just sort of picked it up) but it's still a tough thing for many older, stiffer, people who take longer to get over a heavy fall than a 14 year old would.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Yes, totally agree with you pam w, but it being tough getting knocked about a bit is not the same thing as the sport being unteachable.

With a decent instructor, you can learn to snowboard without falling over at all. Much harder in a group lesson, where there's inevitably some "go practise this on your own" but with a well-managed progression, there's no real reason to be falling over all the time. I think a lot of this comes from the many skiers who "hire a board for the last day to try it", don't get any lessons and wonder why they fall over all the time!

I used to teach snowboarding (on dryslope!) and it really comes down to the individual. People who want to charge into it will inevitably fall over a lot. People who are very nervous wil, unfortunately, also fall over a bit as some commitment is required for those first turns but people with the right balance of patience and enthusiasm will get there with very little pain.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I had some spectacular falls and wipe outs when learning to ski, although I did ski very fast.

I moved to snowboard and learnt to link turns in MK Snowdome in a few hours.

I had lots, lots of falls (and still have) on the board but they were relatively small and easy and nothing comparing to the ones I had skiing. Not even close. OK I board slower and more chilled out but it definitely can be learnt without much pain Very Happy


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 14-10-10 13:00; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I've never met anyone who hasn't fallen over when learning - yet. Maybe someone can either invent snowboard stabilizers or perhaps airbags that can be triggered on falling. Failing that masses of padding to cushion the fall. One of those inflatable sumo wrestler costumes would do the trick.
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Quote:
getting knocked about a bit is not the same thing as the sport being unteachable.


If you bothered to actually read what I put, nowhere do I use the phrase "unteachable", or even suggest ultimately it can't be taught. It's not as teachable, to the point where some people just give up.

Quote:
With a decent instructor, you can learn to snowboard without falling over at all.


I'm actually quite stunned at this. Complete nonsense.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
BCjohnny, sorry mate, but that's exactly what you said:
Quote:

Skiing can be taught, quite rightly, up to quite finite standards, in a way boarding can't.


Obviously, we disagree on this. I really struggle to understand why you would think there is a difference between teaching snowboarding and teaching skiing? There a series of movements in snowboarding which, if "copied correctly" as you put it, just work - in the same way as there are for skiing. There are a lot of self-taught snowboarders out there, certainly, but a lot of them have awful technique (even if they can get about the mountain pretty quickly).

It's totally possible to learn to snowboard with no or minimal falling over (no more than skiing, lets say), I've seen it plenty of times and even taken 1 or 2 people through the process myself. Most people do spend most of the 1st couple of days on their backsides, but it's not compulsary!
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BCjohnny wrote:
I'm not sure, beyond the basics*, it can be "taught" in the same way skiing can. Skiing can be taught, quite rightly, up to quite finite standards, in a way boarding can't.


I would imagine most people would agree that ultimately there is a lot more "technique" that can be taught as regards skiing than boarding. And as most boarders are in it for the laughs, most wouldn't want the anally precise ultimate teaching that skiing seems to inevitably morph into.

And if, as you've repeated, you can teach people to board with "no or minimal falling over (no more than skiing, lets say)", you're wasted doing what you're doing, or at the very least hiding your light under a bushel. You could corner the market, mate, there's probably dozens of people on here alone who'd take you up on that.

Yep, I guess we'll have to disagree. The original (long) post, though not perfect, or factually correct in every way, I think more or less sums up what I've heard, seen and experienced.

And not being someone who feels he has to defend every single thing I post, I'm out.
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Hey dude, re-reading that, my first post was maybe a tad bit confrontational. I need to work on that! Embarassed

Personally, I like technique and I'm totally sold on coaching for any sport. I've got to admit that doing my first BASI course slightly ruined snowboarding for me as with every turn I'm thinking "dammit, that wasn't quite right". Only slightly though Toofy Grin . I do a lot of carving as there's no park here but lots of very well-groomed pistes. I am avoiding doing the higher level BASI courses on the basis that they might try to teach me the "right" way to ride powder and frankly I just don't want to be thinking about that!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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cc_7up, It's not a problem to learn to board at your age . . . as long as you accept that it will be far more a physical challenge than skiing. Quite apart from the disorientation of losing bipedal balance control you will also be using rarely stressed muscles and over-stressing commonly used ones. Then there's the falling down. With your mass, impact forces are great so you need to both improve your basic balance (wobble boards etc.) and learn to fall.

All that being said, get the right instruction and you should learn adaptive balance skills and rarely fall. It is a fantastic addition to sliding on planks and one I heartily recommend.
Before the season starts keep up with the fitness and really work on your balance (we lose this as we age unless practised).

Don't try to force the learning curve, just do it in 1/2 day increments to give your body time to recover and take you lessons on soft piste not morning ice.
Oh, and get some butt and thigh protection too.

BCjohnny, It is very possible to teach boarding with little falling, however that requires a different technique than starting the poor victims off with the bulldozing sideslip. But it takes more time and depends on the punter's willingness to learn balance and board control rather than start sliding as soon as possible.
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well... the oldies are really enjoying learning to ski and are just this minute talking about going to get fitted for their own boots after only two lessons...

result Very Happy
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shoogly, that's fantastic. snowHead Good for them!
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