 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi,
Will she be on a french contract? Or is this through an english TO?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jamesc, English I guess as the owners are English
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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[sarcasticmode]
so, she wants to live in a ski resort for a season to ski all day, have somewhere to sleep, live, be fed and have an instant social life for free yet still wants to be paid!!!
[/sarcasticmode]
[seriousmode]
Firstly; Natives can probably help more here, I personally think she'll be able to walk away with her tips and not a lot more.
Secondly; if you do the maths; Accomodation €3000 + food €1000 + ski pass €1000m = €5000.
16weeks @ 35 hours a week = 560
Means package is worth = €8.93 per hour
I have a gut feel that minimum wage is about €10 per hour so she would get €1.07/hr = €599 for the season plus tips.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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French minimum wage is 8,86€ an hour gross. Expect to lose about 200€ a month from that in social security contributions. Income tax is not deducted at source - you have to fill in a tax declaration at the and of each calendar year, and you get a tax bill in August. (Unlikely she'd have to pay any income tax though.) If she gets board and lodging with the job there may be a deduction made for that, but not necessarily.
If she's working for a TO she can expect £170 to £250 a month. Basic resort wages spreadsheet here: http://www.natives.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18879
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Thanks 
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Was 100euro a week in my day!
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provenjohn, are we talking TO, individual chalet or what? Make sure she's got a proper contract (whether French or English) and isn't working on some dodgy cash in hand basis for people who aren't adequately insured and/or aren't declaring her.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Lizzard, English owned restaurant, well known & say proper contract in advance.
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| marcellus wrote: |
[sarcasticmode]
so, she wants to live in a ski resort for a season to ski all day, have somewhere to sleep, live, be fed and have an instant social life for free yet still wants to be paid!!!
[/sarcasticmode]
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Not sure why the sarcasm as this is entirely possible if you work for a TO. Granted it depends on what you define as all day and social life... but a lot of people get the above + wage with TO's.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I was offered chalet hosting jobs with a couple of UK TOs and both provided accommodation, meals, transport, lift pass, lessons (when available) and equipment hire for the season. Cash pay is £60p/w with an additional £20p/w paid as a lump sum bonus at the end of the season.
As it was explained to me, during the first month or so you end up working a lot more than 40 hours p/w, but as you get better at the job it's possible to get it down to about 35 hours p/w.
All in all, I think it's a pretty good deal.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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In my day (1991/92) it was £50 per week but included full board, season pass, clothing and equipment hire. I worked approx 60 hours per week.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Timmaah wrote: |
| Not sure why the sarcasm as this is entirely possible if you work for a TO. Granted it depends on what you define as all day and social life... but a lot of people get the above + wage with TO's. |
But as the OP was asking about working in a restaurant not a TO it's a different ball game..
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Kenzie, unless it's a chain of restaurants or TO-owned, more likely it's a local contract. You can't legitimately employ people on posted worker contracts unless your head office/main business is in a country other than the one in which the person is working.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Kenzie, unless it's a chain of restaurants or TO-owned, more likely it's a local contract. You can't legitimately employ people on posted worker contracts unless your head office/main business is in a country other than the one in which the person is working.
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Even then, it's still illegal in France to have anyone on any kind of posted contract if the contract is for a fixed term. Only permanent staff can be posted abroad. This is, of course, widely ignored.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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stevomcd, if that's the case, every British TO operating in France (summer and winter) is breaking the law. Now why doesn't that surprise me? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| stevomcd, if that's the case, every British TO operating in France (summer and winter) is breaking the law. Now why doesn't that surprise me? |
And not just down in wintersports land - I could well imagine a wide range of IT contractors, professionals and other types on short term or fixed term contracts - being told 'you're going to Paris for 3 months to sort out problem x'
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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bertie bassett, I suspect it's not the case, in fact. There have been several attempts to take TOs to court for their various employment practices, and if it were as simple as that they would have been spanked by now.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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A little bird in the Dept. de Jeunesse et des Sports (DDJS) has alluded to a possible test case being brought by the Albertville "procureur" against a British TO regarding their employment practices / contracts.
For info: the monthly SMIC (French minimum wage) is 1 343,77 (source: URSSAF website).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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marksavoie, SMIC is an hourly rate, not a monthly one - that figure is for the usual 35-hour week, but you obviously earn more if you're doing more hours (as is the case with many resort jobs). There's a standard overtime rate as well, and you can be paid extra for working Sundays, bank holidays etc.
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Lizzard, but aren't the French trying to enforce the 35 hour maximum working week now?
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marcellus, no. 39 is standard in hospitality, lots of contracts at 48, plenty of overtime going on.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The UK minimum wage and accommodation max deduction goes up next month
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Rates from 1 October 2010
From 1 October 2010 new rates and age bands will apply.
•£5.93 - the rate for workers aged 21 and over
•£4.92 - the 18-20 rate
•£3.64 - the 16-17 rate
•new minimum wage of £2.50 per hour for apprentices who are either under 19 or in the first year of their apprenticeship
The accommodation offset rate
If your employer provides you with accommodation, they can count some of its value towards National Minimum Wage (NMW) pay. This is called the accommodation offset. Your employer cannot count more than the accommodation offset rate which is in force at any given time.
This rate will increase on 1 October 2010 to £4.61 a day, £32.27 a week.
It makes no difference whether:
•your employer takes rent out of your wages
•you have to pay rent to your employer after receiving your wages
•your employer simply provides the accommodation as part of a package
In all cases, the accommodation offset rate is the most your employer can count towards NMW pay. It also makes no difference whether you could have chosen not to occupy the accommodation. If you do choose to occupy it, the accommodation offset applies.
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http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/TheNationalMinimumWage/DG_175108
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If in France on a UK contract it appears from the quote below that the French minimum wage applies.
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Posted workers
If your employer temporarily transfers you from one EU member state you are entitled to work in to another you are a 'posted worker'. Your employment terms and conditions are protected.
Your employer might post you to another EU member state because, for example:
•your employer has company offices in another country
•you are transferred to an associate company or company controlled by your employer (called a subsidiary company) in another EU member state
•your employer has a contract to fulfil or supply services in another EU member state
•you work for an employment business that hires out labour to another EU member state, but continues to employ you directly
Protection for posted workers
Your employer must comply with basic employment terms and conditions in the country you have been posted to. If the country you have been posted to has, for example, a higher minimum wage, you become entitled to the minimum wage of that country.
Your employer is not prevented from offering you more favourable employment terms and conditions than the minimum provided by the country you have been posted to.
The terms and conditions that apply to posted workers are:
•maximum work periods and minimum rest periods
•minimum paid annual holidays
•National Minimum Wage
•health and safety at work
•protection if you are pregnant or have just given birth
•equal treatment between men and women and other provisions regarding non-discrimination
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Boredsurfing, TOs deduct loads more than that for accommodation. My payslip for Skiplan quoted £493 pcm - for a tiny room which smelled of sewage (ancient macerator toilet) and had neither a door between the bedroom and shower room nor a window. You can rent a studio apartment in 2Alpes for that sort of money.
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Lizzard, hmm, not clear if the accommodation maximum deduction applies to posted workers is it? No doubt a wiki lawyer will be along to clarify if it does/doesn't apply 
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You know it makes sense.
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Boredsurfing, posted workers are supposd to be subject to local law in these matters. However, the French won't let you charge 600€ a month for a hovel either.
All of which illustrates why I am selling lift tickets for a living.
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FAQ
