 Poster: A snowHead
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| fatbob wrote: |
| & employers wonder why prospective young employees don't display any basic self sufficiency skills? Scotchland by train, yoof hostel etc, train or flight to alps, yoof hostel. Its a rather arrogant assumption that U18s aren't capable of functioning without supervsion. |
If what Wayne said is true its not that they are not capable its that they are not permitted to do certain things.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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michaelrowland, I went to Neil McNabs place in Chamonix twice when I was 17. Once was for a camp the other was just a weeks hol riding around Chamonix on my own (or with other guests), if I were not to return by the evening meal I'm sure Neil would have raised the alarm I was missing. His holidays are H/B only no flights (however weeks are limited due to him doing so many back country and mountaineering courses) but I had no probs arranging easyjet flights and transfers! Another option for you?
Anyway back to the discussion of how irresponsible your parents are! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi,
I don't know if it helps but I went travelling when I was under 18 - it's a while ago now - but generally I found that it was the flights rather than the accomodation etc which was the problem - I think there is some sort of law about unacompannied minors which is what causes the problem.
Have a look at the eurostar trains and eurolines buses both of which will get you out to the snow without you having to fly "unaccompanied". The bus journey is pretty long - around 18 hours - but it's cheap and easy with no changes. Try searching in the search bar for London to "Moutiers" (for the 3 valleys) or "Bourg Sainte Maurice" (for La Plagne, Les Arcs, Val D'Isere or Tignes).
I'm sure that you'll easily find plenty of chalets, youth hostels etc happy to have you to stay, and who can either give you advice for getting from the bus station to resort, or who will come pick you up. Try STA, the student travel company, for travel insurance.
General advice would be make sure that you have everything planned before you go, and check that your parents have all the details for you before you leave. I found that once you'd done one trip and come back unharmed, further trips were no worries. Spent my gap year backpacking in India without too much hassle!
Good luck!
Heather
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Shimmy Alcott, We have the EHICs - but as our daughters were over 18 by the time they came in I was not aware that kids had thier own - makes things easier. In that case as long as the OP can get some travel insurance there is not a problem - bus/train, then a Hostel - dead easy (and make sure there is a way of accessing emergency funds!)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Spikyhedgehog wrote: |
I did a season on my own and then hitched round Africa for 5 months, lots of stuff went wrong. Coped fine. I do understand from an Admin point of view that it can be a problem, but from a maturity point of view I don't think there is a huge difference.
I was only 18, is that so much different from 17?!
michaelrowland, when you planning on going? Do you not have school/sixth form trips, they are pretty damn fun! |
My sixth form trip got cancelled and the school won't be running one next year either.
There are so many pro's and con's to the whole situation but it depends which you focus on. The chance of us getting into trouble is pretty slim but if we do then we are thousands of miles away from home. As much as I would like to go, I think waiting for the 2011/2012 season would be the safest for all of us. Thanks everyone!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Edited
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 18-09-10 15:17; edited 1 time in total
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Yeah I 100% understand what your saying and you're right. The 2011/2012 season when I am 18 and my two friends are 17 (as they are born in May & August) will be much better for all of us. We can go with any company and do everything we wanted to.
I'm definately going to look into PGL and then try our own adventure the following year! Thanks Wayne 
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A few minutes surfing reveals the BA policy:
Important notice when booking children travelling alone
On British Airways flights, children under the age of 12 years must be accompanied by a person of 16 years of age or above.
The person accompanying the child can be a family member, guardian or other appointed person.
If the child cannot be accompanied by a family member, guardian or other appointed person, he/she must be registered with our Skyflyer Solo service or we will be unable to accept them for travel.
You cannot book the Skyflyer Solo service on ba.com
Please note that rules and regulations for children travelling alone may vary by country, so please check the applicable regulations with the local country authorities.
and from EasyJet:
Children under 16 years of age traveling on UK, Italian, or French domestic flights can travel without photo identification provided that they are travelling with an accompanying adult.
Children under 15 years traveling to the Czech Republic may travel on a parent’s passport provided they are traveling with the passport holder. Children aged 15 years and older are required to travel on their own travel documents.
Children under the age of 14 (exclusive) years can not travel without an adult of over 16 years of age who will take full responsibility for the child.
Passengers between the age of 14 (inclusive) and 16 (exclusive) years may travel alone, however they cannot travel and be responsible for children under 14 years (exclusive).
Passengers over the age of 16 years (inclusive) may travel alone.
Spanish and French Children Under 18 Years, travelling without their parents/legal guardians and with an ID card, must have a form (collected from their local police station) of written authorisation to travel from their parents. This form will need to be presented at the check-in desk and passport control for both International and Domestic flights. Without this form the passport control officers will refuse them travel.
Children travelling with a valid passport do not require this form as a passport acts as parental authority. A Family Book (Livret de Famille) is not sufficient ID for a child/infant to travel on international flights.
Soif you're over 16 you can fly where you want on your own with at least two of the major carriers. If people are going to spout off on a forum they should at least try to get their facts right. Its not difficult in the internet age....
Interestingly even the UK Foreign Office website doesn't comment about the intricacies of children travelling - it recommends to contact the French Embasy websites. Given there are plenty of children going to European boarding schools who travel there and back on their own, there must be ways to deal with it.
Regards
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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MontriondSkier,
| Quote: |
If people are going to spout off on a forum they should at least try to get their facts right. Its not difficult in the internet age....
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I can't find any posts which are negated by what you have posted. Wayne refers to "some airlines".
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Well guys I know it is different now, but when I was under 16 and the school hols came round I would travel alone quite often out to our place in the Alps. I have friends who's kids do the same now from there boarding school so it is not as hard as everyone is making out even these days.
If you come by train (Eurostar) or Bus (snowcoach, much cheaper) there are quite a few places here like the 'Pink House' that take those over 16 years. If you go over to my facebook group (link below) you will find a few links. Good luck, I agee being free to do what you want is great fun. But do be careful. The French police do not like badly behaved English kids. They deported some from Les Arcs a couple of years ago. Hope that helps.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| tiffin wrote: |
If what Wayne said is true its not that they are not capable its that they are not permitted to do certain things. |
..and? They'll automatically go to pieces if something does happen or perhaps they'll have the common sense to make acquaintance with an adult at the hotel they are staying at to get over the troublesome technicalities of local bureacracy? I went on unaccompanied ski trips with mates at 16 and 17 (to Scotland admittedly as we didn't have the budget for anywhere abroad) and it never occured to us or our parents that we wouldn't be capable of dealing with any problems that arose.
I totally understand why as a TO wouldn't want the hassle but to advise strongly don't do it (independently) is pretty weak. The major hassle I can think of is not having a credit card for emergencies.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You could keep an eye on the weather and look North instead! 
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I'm with Wayne here. Notice that he's made no comment regarding maturity or otherwise of the people concerned, because that really isn't relevant. The problem is that they are not legally adults and therefore should something occur (accident, hospitalisation, theft, loss of passport, blah etc) they become minors in need of someone who fits the legal definition of a 'responsible adult' - ie who is aged 18 or over.
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You know it makes sense.
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Hurtle
Fair enough, however I have now checked with British Airways, KLM, Air France, Swiss, Alitalia, Easyjet, Ryanair and Thomson (flight only basis) and all will accept independent travel by persons 16 years or older. Would anybody like to elaborate who the “some airlines” are?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lizzard, so if a 16 year old has an accident in France then they are just left on the ground until a parent is by their side?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Edited
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 18-09-10 15:17; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wayne, and your point is?
What I feel is you have put this young lad off maybe a hol of a lifetime, it was over 10 years ago when I went boarding on my own (not even mates to help out) and I still look back as the best trips of my life!
I ended up riding with Steve Bailey, at the time Britains no1 boarder and made links with people I could still count on today...all at the age of 17.
Michalrowland, forget the TO's and go ski anyway you can. If you dont do it now then you may never do it as you discover cars, beer and many other things to spend your cash on!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Edited
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 18-09-10 15:17; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wayne, Michael has said he is going to wait till next year so you can stop getting your knickers in a twist.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Shimmy Alcott, I'm sure you know perfectly well that under 18s are not legally adult and therefore a parent or guardian's presence/permission/signature will be required under certain circumstances, particularly those involving medical treatment. Stop being obtuse.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lizzard, 
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It was actually a perfectly honest question. Why dont you just answer it. 16 year old with a broken leg on the slopes - cant contact the parents - what happens?
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Shimmy Alcott, they'd be carted off to hospital and strenuous efforts made to contact parents, who would need to give consent for operations required. Are you trying top tell me the UK would be any different?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think your all missing the point. Who will be buying the beer?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Lizzard if it was a serious accident then I'm pretty certain they would go ahead and do the necessary surgery anyway, without parental consent, they'd just go ahead and perform whatever emergency treatment was needed. Feel free to prove me wrong as I have no experience of the medical services in France.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Wayne, If thats your opinion I'll accept it.
However I find it hypocritical to advise someone not to do the things I did and have a great time doing it. It sounds like you had agreat time travelling at 17 and chased a work resulting from that travelling, so why would you advise someone not to do it and possible miss out on life changing experiences is beyond me!
Good luck to you Wayne and to Michaelrowland (but more to Michaelrowland )!
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| Quote: |
However I find it hypocritical to advise someone not to do the things I did and have a great time doing it. It sounds like you had agreat time travelling at 17 and chased a work resulting from that travelling, so why would you advise someone not to do it and possible miss out on life changing experiences is beyond me!
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Seconded
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Edited
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sat 18-09-10 15:18; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Aaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh - I'm turning into my dad 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wayne, you need to give Michael a bit more credit - he actually said he decided not to go. Probably the very sensible young sort of guy that should be going.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wayne,
Sorted
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| went to see Genesis play in Germany. |
Munich? me too, but I was there anyway (and a bit older than 17) - I had money but not a scrap of change for the metro so a kindly Municher paid for my ticket
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I know a nine year old who goes to school in Manchester, he lives round the corner from me. He goes to Crewe station with his mum and gets the train to Manchester while she gets the train in the opposite direction to Birmingham. When he gets to Manchester he gets a bus to Manchester Grammar - which is about 3 miles from Manchester City Centre. Then the reverse at home time. He just started this term. My daughter gets to go to the co-op on her own - a couple of hundred yards away. She wouldnt have a clue what to do at a train station. But this little lad is used to public transport, his single mum does not drive so they get buses and trains everywhere. Still dont think it's right but that's what they do.
I think a parent should not stop their children from doing "daft" (if a ski trip can be called that) things - I think they should just help facilitate them to make reasonable, informed decisions.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
She wouldnt have a clue what to do at a train station.
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It's just what you're used to, isn't it. Our daughter went to stay with a Spanish exchange friend, when she was about 14, I suppose. She had to get a train to the airport, find the right plane, etc. They met her the other end. I can't remember why we couldn't take her to the airport - probably because I was working.
She was quite nervous. checked about five million times that she had her passport, her ticket, her piece of paper with vital telephone numbers on (no mobile phones) etc etc. But she was tremendously pleased with herself when she'd made it, and it gave her a lot of confidence. She was used to trains as she went to school by train every day, into Chichester. She subsequently did two solo trips to south east Asia, but she was older then. You do need to give them opportunities to gradually take on more responsibility - there seem to be a lot of kids go to secondary school these days having never been anywhere on their own. At 11 I used to take my little brother and sister on the bus to Roath Park Lake. I had an aunt who lived very near the Lake, in case of emergencies (one did arise one day when I fell in the Lake and got totally soaked and had to splodge over to her house to get dry).
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Shimmy Alcott, I'm sure you know perfectly well that under 18s are not legally adult and therefore a parent or guardian's presence/permission/signature will be required under certain circumstances, particularly those involving medical treatment. Stop being obtuse. |
Well from where I'm sitting you are actually wrong. A 16 year old is legally an adult in Scotland, can live on their own, get married (without parental consent), enter into contracts, determine their own healthcare etc.
Anyway, the idea that someone in an accident isn't going to get emergency treatment because there isn't an adult 'guardian' there is just bonkers! 
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Winterhighland, I know that. However, since the youngster in question gives his location as Nottingham it's hardly relevant, is it? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| Wayne, you need to give Michael a bit more credit - he actually said he decided not to go. Probably the very sensible young sort of guy that should be going. |
Hopefully this is a bare faced lie and this thread has had no impact on his decision and in fact its made him more resolute to defy the naysayers. If he's been put off by a few well intentioned comments or because it can't all be laid on a plate for him by a TO he's probably not mature enough anyway
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FAQ
