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Relative Piste Gradings - Australia & Europe

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi All,

I'm new to Snowheads - cool site!! - so apologies if this has been asked before.

Anyone have any experience of how Australian piste gradings compare to those in Europe? Australian ski resorts state that they use the international grading system but that's a dubious claim seeing as as red runs don't exist here - it's green, blue or black. Some Australian ski areas split the blue runs into 'lower' and 'upper' categories and same with the blacks, which is helpful (although a four-colour grading system in line with Europe's would be even more helpful...).

Anyway, if anyone has had experience of, say, how Australian blues compare with European ones, or what colour a red run might go if it were transported to Australia, that'd be really handy. I know it really is all relative as gradings can vary from one side of a hill to the next (well they can here anyway) but any thoughts would be much appreciated!

Cheers Madeye-Smiley
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ClareA, welcome to snowHeads! snowHead

It sounds like the Australian system is more like the North American than the European system.

Although I've been to a couple of Australian resorts, it's only been in the summer, so I can't really comment on relative gradings! Someone will soon though.
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ClareA, Afraid I have no knowledge of the Australian system, but europe is not as consistent as you seem to think "
Quote:

although a four-colour grading system in line with Europe's would be even more helpful...).

As only part of europe operates this - the rest just go with Blue, Red and Black.
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RobinS, what parts don't? Four grades apply in Austria, France, Switzerland - and, IIRC, Italy. [edit] my bad - see post lower down


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 25-08-10 18:17; edited 1 time in total
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it's resort by resort even within a given country.

Presumably, if it is like in the US, it transaltes like so:
Oz/US/Canadia Europe
Green = Blue
Blue = Red
Black = Black

Note that some places (eg Laax in Switzerland also uses Orange / Yellow for "a bit touher than black", so it can be confusing rolling eyes
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yeah, but in canada and america there's also double black...

what i got from skiing lake louise and sunshine and comparing to resorts i've been to in europe

US/Can Double Black = European Black or even non marked steep off piste pitches

US/Can Black = European Red

Then the other colours pretty much match up the rest of the way
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achilles, I've never come across green pistes in Austria or Italy.
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shoogly, I got the impression double back was usually like marked offpiste routes in Europe?
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clarky999 wrote:
shoogly, I got the impression double back was usually like marked offpiste routes in Europe?


I don't think it correlates very well due to the nature of piste-ing etc.

Typical double blacks. (the chutes)
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If the Oz model is like the US one which it seems to be I'd say it would translate broadly as follows for groomed runs

Green=green

Blue= blue

Black = red

Hard black = Euro groomed black

Non groomed all bets are off. In the US often single black and certainly double black status is given to rough indications of area rather than "pistes". Usual caveats apply, gradings are not consistent between resorts, snow conditions, weather & visibility may have major impact on difficulty etc etc.
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queen bodecia, RobinS, I'll take a big hit on that - shows how much attention I paid to my piste map when last in Cervinia and Ski Welt (actually that was quite a while ago, and memory does dim) and St Anton (not that long ago). Come to that I see Wengen doesn't have them either! Maybe I just wasn't looking for green pistes. Toofy Grin
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Clare - any idea which resort you usually ski and which runs are your favourites? Where are you headed to?

I'd say fatbob has it close - remember off-piste is different to home where inbounds off-piste is patrolled. Make sure your travel insurance covers you for the tyoe of skiing you will be doing (some do not cover ANY off-piste, some cover with an instructor/guide, some cover all stuff not requiring ropes). I always took the local insurance with ticket in Europe for the convenience factor if it did all go crappy - they know their local insurance situation so you will be covered for getting collected and to hospital OK... Then you have time to get your insurance sorted.

Good that you remember that all trail markings are relative - eg even at Thredbo the Blacks and Blues on Merritts side are different to those on the Supertrail side... and Merritts is different to Antons/Sponars also - always keep that in your head.

Also might help if you take 'exposure' into account - how much does it worry you if you can see all the way down hill? Does it look worse than if you see just a bit? The runs are much longer with longer descents and this can be a factor for some folks - while taking more winding trails is less of an issue.
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scotia, that link just opens up a blank page saying unauthorized, have you got any other links to it? Cheers
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
clarky999, look here. The flatish looking run that swings round is a blue.

And another. The closest stuff is marked black and the face in the background is various double blacks.
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scotia, Wotzat? Whitehorn gullies?
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 Poster: A snowHead
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fatbob, yep. The blue run is Boomerang and the photo is taken from Hiker's Paradise. The second photo is the bottom of Whitehorn 1 with the Wall in the background. The run farthest left is ER6 ( I think ) and the steepest run I've ever dropped in to.
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scotia, I love Whitehorn gullies and that whole side of the hill. Sweet.
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achilles, It is actually only France and Spain (including Andorra) which have Green pistes in Europe.
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alex_heney, Scotland has them too. As does Greece.
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alex_heney, I've only just realised how limited use of a green is. Shows how rarely I look for greens I suppose. There are a couple of green in France I am very aware of - Verte in La Daille - which though green was often very nasty for beginners, quite steep, really, with boiler plate ice on it (I wonder if the resort's improved it since I skied there last) and Demoiselles at LDA - whic can be an over-crowded home run.
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scotia, I never knew Scotland has them.

Does Greece have 4 different runs? Smile
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Thank you for your comments everyone, they’ve already considerably improved my concept of how things are in Europe/North America.

Cheers for the translations SooperSlyder, shoogly and fatbob. The caveats are firmly in my head!

Little Tiger - I'm relatively new to skiing and so far have skiied Perisher and Thredbo, though am a bit more familiar with Thredbo. I like High Noon, Race Course and pretty much all the runs in the Cruiser area. I’ve been dabbling in the shorter blacks at Cruiser but agree very much about differences across the mountain – I imagine blacks are a different experience on the Supertrail/Ramshead side! Don’t mind too much regarding ‘exposure’, given the choice would maybe err towards winding trails but being able to see all the way down the hill wouldn't stop me at least giving something a try.

Thanks for the insurance reminder, something else I need to be a lot more familiar with.

My partner and I will be in the UK in late Feb/early March and will have a week to ski somewhere in Europe (north America tempting, but doubt we'd have time for a trans-Atlantic trip) – no idea where as yet. Presently I'm researching Finland to Spain and everywhere inbetween! I am early intermediate standard and my other half approaching advanced intermediate. We don’t often ski together as he skis waaay faster than me, but it’s nice to be on the same hill, e.g. Cruiser at Thredbo has everything from green to black.


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 26-08-10 10:10; edited 2 times in total
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alex_heney wrote:
scotia, I never knew Scotland has them.

Does Greece have 4 different runs? Smile


Laughing apparently so. Sainte Foy in France has a green too!
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P.S. I have a heap of questions about skiing in Europe generally, but as they're not related to piste gradings I've started a new thread (Good time to ski in Europe?). All and any advice gratefully received! Smile
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ClareA, the cruiser blacks are ungroomed so not really like Europe...

A red will be like Little Beauty IIRC... Maybe True Blue...
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Don't know if it's the same as NZ, but over here the rating system is well overdone compared to Europe. What gets called a black here, at least on the touristy hills, would struggle to be called a red in Europe. I'm guessing it is similar, because I hear a lot of ozzies talking it up about the runs they have done. TBH I think that a lot of the more popular hills here only call runs black to make people feel good about themselves.

The ones they stick diamonds all over on the piste maps can get a little bit challenging on an icy day, but I happily let my young kids ride that sort of stuff on their own, and it's never a drama.
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Thanks little tiger and hang11. The more I read/research the more it seems that Antipodean grading is somewhat overdone in comparison to Europe (which I kinda suspected). The knowledge of experienced Snowheads is very valuable! Very Happy
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scotia wrote:
clarky999 wrote:
shoogly, I got the impression double back was usually like marked offpiste routes in Europe?


I don't think it correlates very well due to the nature of piste-ing etc.

Typical double blacks. (the chutes)


that pic brought back very very good memories. We were lucky enough to ski that face (the one directly underneath the pylons and lift station) a couple of years ago in good spring conditions... i've developed a fair bit as far as ability and confidence go and looking back it was a big leap of faith and a good mental obstacle out of the way skiing that slope.

you might quite like this panorama i took from the other end of the backside at Lake Louise which includes that face Very Happy

http://www.flickr.com/photos/petermacdonald/2415560067/sizes/o/in/set-72157604549724839/
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