 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wayne - I'm not averse to using TOs on principle. However the product they offer is on the whole very limited if you are travelling with children. On the whole they offer:
travel by air - we usually go to france and like to go by train
catered accommodation - I don't like chalets and like self catering preferably luxury with pool
limited selection of resorts and often more expensive resorts for lift pass- eg. there are no TOs with childcare who offer Montgenvre where we went this year. It is a great resort.
Snowbizz in PSV is the exception and we had a great time with them but they are only in one resort.
We have booked appartments through ski collection and peak retreats and found them very good. They can book lift passes, ski hire etc and have the lift pass at reception for you on arrival. So the only thing we had to worry about was arranging the travel to the alps (which they would have done but I like to do myself). So there is a half way house of part TO/part DIY.
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If you want self-catered accommodation I don't think even the most ardent TO fan could deny that there is an enormously greater range of style and location available if you book direct - when we did our first family holiday, in Austria, I searched for a long time (1987 - pre internet days) for self catering accommodation and I did eventually find a very good apartment. Subsequently however I found it pretty well impossible (that property was dropped by Inghams) though Snowheads familiar with Austria assure us that there's plenty available, good quality, good size, good prices. Even in France, which is bursting with self-catering accommodation, the choice offered by TOs is often very limited and the pricing confusing (because only the desperate would book a traditional French apartment and aim to fill it, and the "under-occupancy" approach makes comparisons difficult).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Advice that they will get last minute bargains is perfectly valid. |
Should that not be
Advice that they "may" get last minute bargains even if not in their preferred resort or their preferred hotel is is perfectly valid.
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They are first timers. It is unlikely to really matter to them which resort (within reason - they don't want somewhere like St Wolfgang where the skiing is a half hour bus ride away) or which hotel provided they get one of a decent standard.
If you are set on a particular resort, then I agree that waiting for lat(ish) bargains is risky. BUt if you are willing to be reasonably flexible, there will always be some good bargains around outside peak times.
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| Roy Hockley wrote: |
| There is no hassle at all in organising a DIY holiday. Some TO's would like it to be akin to rocket science but it aint! |
Exactly. The TO v DIY arguement is very popular around here and each to their own and all that, but, don't let anyone tell you that organising a family ski trip is difficult.
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We have kids, 7 and 5. This will be there 3rd season. Save yourself a lot of pain and go with Crystal. Choose a hotel right next to the ski school, use the kids clubs, take turns doing the early tea with them, head off to the games room in the evening and enjoy the cameraderie of parents in the same boat.
We did it DIY the 1st time, it was a great trip, the kids loved it but mum and dads stress levels could have been lower.
The next trip with Crystal to a Club Hotel was worth the extra dosh.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm slightly confuesed as to the OP's £5k price. Adult prices with Esprit in March are under £700 and in some resorts kids are a lot less. Other costs are fixed (ie lift passes, ski school). I'd go with Esprit first trip, it makes life so much easier.
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Ghost Dog, well the OP was no doubt factoring in all the ski passes, equipment, lunches, etc etc. It wouldn't be hard to spend £5K - you wouldn't have to go completely mad, though it's certainly possible to do it a lot cheaper.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You see the OP made the first fatal mistake with any ski holiday. He worked out the cost. Not sure who it was on here gave the best advice ever for a ski holiday. Pay the many elements on different credit cards and never, ever total up the true cost. That way skiing always appears very good value. 
By the way, we used Esprit for our first 3 family ski holidays. They are brutally expensive but excellent. If you can afford it use esprit. You are paying over the odds and yes it would be cheaper to do DIY, but for your first trip, not so sure its that much fun. Take the lazy route first time and let someone else do all the hard work. If cost is truly an issue then DIY can save you money.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The way I cope is to asume that a week is going to cost a grand. Anything more you wear it and anything less is a bonus.
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| Quote: |
You see the OP made the first fatal mistake with any ski holiday. He worked out the cost.
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 I remember on that first holiday in Austria, when I walked in the lift pass office to pay for 4 of us, for two weeks (it had seemed so much better value when I read the brochures, self catering for two weeks cost little more than for one). I just handed over that credit card and switched off my brain. Mentally shrugged. We're here. We need to go up the mountain. ski lessons start in ten minutes. Have the kids got tissues? Has Tony got glucose tablets? Will he remember to tell someone in his ski lesson group that he's diabetic? Why did I ever think this was a good idea?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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thefatcontroller, 's true. We now get a full season skiing, plus summer and autumn holidays, for less than that. And an appreciating asset (so far, fingers crossed).
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Poster: A snowHead
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We have many more holidays now that we have our own place, even though we don't have any more money.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hells Bells, Ditto, but my wife still wants a sailing holiday as well next year!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There's one major point that a few people here are disregarding...
Not everyone who enjoys skiing earns as much as the next person! It's all good and well telling people to just live with the extra cost, but maybe they earn 1/2 what you do. This doesn't mean anyone should be excluded, it's just that what you think is right for you, may not be right for someone else as their budget just doesn't allow things ot be so easy.
Having said that, esprit are doing pretty good deals at the moment and we have used them to book for March. They were almost £1k cheaper than Crystal for a very very similar holiday.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I don't think anyone is disregarding that point, really - there's a range of advice available about different styles of holiday, including the vital money-saving tip of being flexible and booking at the last minute. Once you've decided on your basic "package" of travel and accommodation, then the ski costs are all fixed, really, but one big variable is lunchtimes. With a family, the difference between having "proper" lunches everyday and making do with a couple of muesli bars and maybe a plate of chips and a beer is massive. If you also have coffee/hot chocolate stops morning and afternoon it could easily add £500 to the cost of a family holiday. It would be very, very, easy to spend considerably more without being obscenely greedy.
One big advantage of an apartment right on the slopes is that you can save a lot of that cash yet still enjoy a break when you need it - which is quite often, with small children.
Even with just two of us a proper lunch on the slopes is a fairly rare treat - with the family is was out of the question. Catered chalet teas are a great institution - having had little to eat during the day you can then fill up "free" on cakes, baguettes and jam and endless cups of tea and coffee. If the kids got up too late to get the maximum food down themselves at breakfast, that was their bad luck.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Hi, we're intending to take ourselves off for a week in March, the kids will be 4 and 6, and so far we've struggled to work out what we need, and how to get it without the week costing upwards of £5k!.
Ski Esprit were recommended and it all looks ace, but it's a helluva price in case the kids hate it
We're not enthused with the prospect of crazy travelling and the madness of a Saturday in Geneva with Thomsons/Crystal etc, and arranging it all ourselves means that the kids won't necessarily get the childcare and other activities that they need.
Does anyyone have any recommendations or experiences of their first hol - where to go, who to use, what to budget, what to include/exclude/take?
All advice gratefully received!
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Getting back to the original post.
How about:
1) Depending on where kids are get them to learn to ski cheaply at your local indoor snow centre or dry ski slope e.g. a Summer holidays program OR ANY other time really. A week of 2 hours a day is about £100 a kid... they will probably need 2 weeks to get them to the level where they are skiing just fine by themselves which means you will not need lessons when you go on your first trip! TOTAL: £400 on lessons.
2) Self drive: About £500 ALL in to the French Alps. FILL up with food in the UK before you leave (say another £200). TOTAL: £700 on food and driving. Eating out in Val is expensive BUT there are GREAT takeaway places at cheap prices if you dont want to cook (the takeaways are GOOD as well - Beef Bourgenon as an example for £10 pp!)
3) A weeks hire of a family chalet self catered (see www.freshchalets.co.uk) in Val d'Isere, France is about £1116 in March all in. Has DVD player and things like that to keep the kids entertained when not skiing (and UK kids channels on TV). TOTAL: £1116 for accommodation
4) Equipment hire for kids is about E56 per kid (say £45) for the week and E72 (say £65) for the week so that is TOTAL £220 all in for kit hire
5) Lift pass - FREE for under 5's. So £200 x 2 (adults) plus £160 for 1 kid So TOTAL: £560 for lift passes
6) Get a private English nanny for the week - March is low season so lets say £500 TOTAL. They will take the kids up the mountain, to the outdoor ice rink, cinema etc etc etc
That gives a total of £3496
Advantages: your own private place, flexibility, kids learn skiing before they go, you say £160 on one of the kids passes by going to Val d'Isere where they give kids passes for free. You can blow the budget a little bit more if you dont want to cater by getting takeaways - making use of the flexible catering arrangements as talked about on the website! Ohh yea and to save on lunchtime lunches you can order packed lunches OR take the free bus back to the chalet which runs all the time and takes 2 minutes!
So the savings are pretty big!
GOOD LUCK!
Steve
Hope that helps!.
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Steve - some of your suggestions make sense but why would you go to Val D'Isere for a cheap family skiing holiday? It is not that good for beginners and is amongst the most expensive resorts. Many other resorts would have cheaper lift passes. Children skiing for the first time would surely be better off in an easier resort such as valmorel, la rosiere, la plagne, les arcs etc.
£1000 is quite expensive for a self catering place outside school holidays. We paid £500 last year and are paying £750 this year. This years is a luxury MGM one with pool etc.
I must say I haven't tried taking my children for dry slope lessons but could not imagine taking children skiing for the first time on snow and not booking them in for lessons. My son has had 3 weeks of lessons on snow and has his 2 star award. His parallel turns still need improvement so we will be booking a fourth week of lessons when we go skiing this year.
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Have a look into Les Deux Alpes, Easy jet to Grenoble, le Crete Hotel, European Ski and Snowboard school and Snow Angel Nannies all can be pre booked would be much cheeper than £5k I think!
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| snowymum wrote: |
| Steve - some of your suggestions make sense but why would you go to Val D'Isere for a cheap family skiing holiday? |
because he owns a chalet in Val D'Isere 
Here's another thought... have you looked at prices for the eastern Canadian/USA ski resorts?
You could possibly get a holiday to Tremblant within budget? ski-i.com or skisafari.com may be able to help. worth a look although i have no idea how much the lift passes etc are?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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You can rent a nice, two bedroom, apartment right on the slopes for a great deal less than £1100 a week in March. Less than half, in fact. Including a DVD player. Not in Val d'Isere, but that's not a good choice for a first time holiday anyway.
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Just checked - mid March, 2 bed slopeside apartment, like ours (MGM recent build, quite nice really) for 400 euros a week. And a tattier, older, one would no doubt be less. No point in paying Val D'Isere prices if you can't make good use of the range of skiing on offer.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We have done 5 ski esprit holidays with 1 child(various resorts), 2 snow bizz holidays with 1 child (puy st vincent) 2 premier neige with 1 child (sainte foy) and a number of DIY trips to various resorts, and all have positive and negatives. I liked puy and sainte foy as they are both small resorts with slopeside accomodation. Snowbizz and premier neige do both catered and self catered options and because I love cooking and eating with my children as a family I tend to prefer self catering.
If you go with any of these TO you have to accept that they are quite rigid in terms of what happens when, for example ski esprit has childrens tea at 5-6, and then children need to be in club or bed in time for adult supper at 7.30. Ski esprit or snowbizz would be great for a first time ski holiday with children, but do not expect to have as much time skiing as you used to have prior to having kids. Our eldest is now 7 and can ski most red runs and a bit off piste and has had the stamina to ski with dad in the afternoons since he was 5, but this year we are taking our 3 year old, she 'skis' in the toddlers lessons at our local dry slope each week (as we have son there skiing and dad instructing) but she has never skied on snow, so I am expecting that she will have her 1 hr lesson and creche in the morning followed by lunch and then I will play with her some afternoons and other afternoons she will be in creche. I accept that if I want to ski I will see much less of her that I would normally, but I know in 2 years time we will be skiing together as a family and it will be worth the initial expense.
If you have skied before kids accept that you will not make any first lifts, and you will need to be back earlier with enough energy to entertain kids, bath and get all their stuff ready for the next day as well as your own. Also bear in mind that when they are small and they want to ski with you, you will have to carry all of their stuff, 3 pairs of skis and pole whilst looking after 2 kids can be a tall order.
We prefer driving as we can stop when we need to, but if flying I would look for a short transfer, accomodation as close to the slope and childcare as possible (Check particularly with esprit how far you need to walk from your accomodation to nursery or club as they are not always in the accomodation you are in for each age group)even if you pick the accomodation closest to the slope you might end up walking to drop off at and pick up and kids clubs. The food esprit do is ok but don't expect fantastic food, it has been very variable, but the kids have enjoyed having donw time in the kids clubs and have enjoyed TO holidays no nd.
Enjoy whatever you choose
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Not that I have kids, but I wouldn't necessarily write off driving - especially if you have done long drives with the kids before. The travel times between driving and flying have been annoyingly similar in my experience. Last year we drove back from Courchevel to Devon in one hit (two drivers) and the time taken was less than the time we flew from Devon to Tignes. Admittedly the Tignes journeys were rubbish (purely due to Chambery falling over) but the driving experience was a lot less painful.
Admittedly I wouldn't drive all in one day with kids - but the ability to break the car journey up with little stops would help. Flying has the major issue of being cooped up for the duration of the journey. The Tignes trip was particularly bad in that there were hours stuck on the plane - in the queue to unload at Chambery - 1 hour after landing before we could park, 30 minutes for the steps to arrive and then another 45 for the bus to take us to the (100 yards away if that) terminal. I think the crew relented and allowed people to visit the loo about an hour after landing... not fun... Eventually arrived at resort at 1am, after a flight scheduled to leave at 12.30 or so from Bristol... Obviously flying isn't always that bad and driving can go wrong (weather, traffic, breakdowns) but I'd be tempted by booking an early ferry on Friday, driving to Dover after work on the Thursday, and driving to an hour or so short of the resort on the Friday, with a substantial break for lunch and several shorter ones at one of the more interesting aires - but even french shops can be an adventure for younger children.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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brian, you said it before me but I'm sure the "use different credit cards" tip was mine!
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Poster: A snowHead
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shortfat007, if it helps any, we have 2 children (will be 15months and 4yrs when we fly) who we are taking skiing with Esprit for the first time in December.
We have booked their hotel in Courchevel (new to then this season). We are quite fussy, we wanted the girls to have their own room, so that hubby gets a good nights sleep (he gets rather grouchy otherwise so were prepared to pay extra for this).
I found working out the prices quite difficult (first child is free) and I think the second might get a discount but one of ours is an infant so it is a fixed charge, but then you get room supplements for some rooms and underoccupancy charges in our case. So I had to phone them up and get them to tell me what the charge was. We have book everything through them EXCEPT ski hire, as they wanted £250 and I have just paid £151 to book direct with Intersport.
ETA: The total has come to £2591.57 - that is pretty much everything, Flights (from Gatwick so we get shorter transfer and can leave our car at my parents house and get a lift to the airport), catered chalet hotel, lift passes, ski hire for us, ski, boot and helmet hire for our eldest, all the childcare, lift passes, insurance and the girls have their own interconnecting room to ours. Makes me swallow especially as our first and second skiing holiday were last might bargains which came in a about £800 for everything for me and my husband. However we aren't prepared to do that with young children.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 10-08-10 9:00; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
she 'skis' in the toddlers lessons at our local dry slope each week
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how does she get on? that sounds quite hard for a 3 year old. Is she quite brave?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| shortfat007 wrote: |
| Ski Esprit were recommended and it all looks ace, but it's a helluva price in case the kids hate it |
Your kids are still quite young; you won't know for sure whether they'll hate it until they're a little older. Some 4-year olds love it while others don't take to the whole skiing thing until they're a little older. Why not wait a year or two?
I've used Esprit and they were great. But my trip with them was probably the worst skiing holiday that I've ever had - we're a close family and I hated the Esprit model of keeping kids and parents separated from breakfast until bedtime. I especially hated not eating an evening meal with the kids.
| shortfat007 wrote: |
| Arranging it all ourselves means that the kids won't necessarily get the childcare and other activities that they need. |
Apart from ski lessons run by trained experts, they don't actually need anything that you can't provide yourself. You could cut back on a great deal of the cost and add an enormous amount of fun by only paying for ski school and skiing with them for the rest of the day. However, that won't work with a four year-old - at that age, many children can only cope with 2 hours of skiing per day.
Finally, don't be seduced by a cheap holiday in an expensive resort. The cost of lessons, lift passes, ski hire and mountain food varies hugely between reports and can be much cheaper if you book direct rather than through your tour operator. As a rule of thumb, better-known resorts are usually more expensive than lesser-known places, and France tends to be more expensive than other countries - although the recent rise of the Swiss Franc might mean Switzerland is the most expensive place this winter.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Jonny Jones, good post. And you can always have other activities other than skiing in the afternoon. Swimming, sledging, snowman building etc etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Steve Angus wrote: |
| That gives a total of £3496 |
Need I say more, £874 per person (regardless of age) in low season. Madness.
Said it before, forget what each individual person in a group will be paying - kids will cost £## adults will pay £##, you can get this for £## and that for £##.
All you need to look at is what is the total cost of the trip for the family.
Oh and for £3,496 you'll still be paying over £1,100 more than you need to - but you do get the pleasure of doing all the washing up and cleaning with the added bonus of spending a couple of days in a car getting there and back. Madness.
The world has gone crazy - for three and a half grand I can put a family of four into a 4* next to the slopes with lift pass, equipment, lessons, kiddy care, flights, transfers, etc, etc. But sorry you can't do the washing up (I'll ask the chef to let you if you really want to though )
Either go to Thomas Cooks or search the web,
find somewhere you want to go,
find a TO thats goes there,
book the trip,
enjoy
Skiing holiday DO NOT have to cost stupid amounts
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 10-08-10 8:08; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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or book with Wayne 
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I don't think Wayne has heard of dishwashers, or scheduled flights, or independent hotels, or even apartments that include the cleaning.
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rayscoops,
I have a house in resort (near the slopes) - got a few spare bed rooms for when Mrs W's family (the in-laws) drop in or (more usually) my drunken mates get locked out at 3am.
For £3,500 they could stay with me and do my washing up and hovering.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| I don't think Wayne has heard of dishwashers, |
But my point is - whats the point.
It's meant to be a holiday
When I'm on holiday I want to someone to come to my table, take the plates away and do something with them (don't care what, as long as there are more clean plate for the next course - did I mention I want 4 courses) and I want my dinner cooked at whatever time I get there (between 7.30 and 9.30).
Oh and I also want someone to make my bed, make me a coffee at any time of day (without whingeing), tidy my room (without barbed comments), I don't want to spend days in a cars getting there, I want someone else to go and get my lift pass - I don't like queues when I'm on holiday.
In fact I work dam hard all year and for a week or so I want to relax and let someone else do everything for me.
Can you see a problem with this.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| Can you see a problem with this. |
Yes, I much prefer self-catering. One option isn't better or worse than the other, it's just a matter of personal preference. When I was taking ski holidays one week at a time I found that I usually couldn't beat a TO price if I was staying in a hotel or catered chalet, but if I wanted self-catering accommodation it was cheaper to go DIY especially during school holidays.
The hassle factor has never been a factor for me, and I prefer to be in charge of my own arrangements rather than put entirely in the hands of the TO when it comes to things like choice of airports, departure times and transfer arrangements.
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FAQ
And that was before I joined the snowHeads community and had access to this wealth of information 
) british they were shown the better rooms! The hotelier apologised and said that certain rooms were saved for the british market as they did not "respect" the rooms. Now that said this was in a sun destination and may have attracted certain types that would not normally be found on 
!! 
