 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, we're intending to take ourselves off for a week in March, the kids will be 4 and 6, and so far we've struggled to work out what we need, and how to get it without the week costing upwards of £5k!
Ski Esprit were recommended and it all looks ace, but it's a helluva price in case the kids hate it
We're not enthused with the prospect of crazy travelling and the madness of a Saturday in Geneva with Thomsons/Crystal etc, and arranging it all ourselves means that the kids won't necessarily get the childcare and other activities that they need.
Does anyyone have any recommendations or experiences of their first hol - where to go, who to use, what to budget, what to include/exclude/take?
All advice gratefully received!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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shortfat007, Try looking at other countries where it is easier to find good cheap deals if you have to use a TO - Austria and Italy spring to mind. Also what about going self-catering or even DIY using a car. This will enable you to possibly find even cheaper hotel accommodation without piste side premiums.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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shortfat007, my approach in this was for the first experience to be as near perfect as possible to hook the kids, and then once that is done, to compromise in future years. I used Ski Esprit once when the kids were creche age and couldn't fault them, but agree that they are expensive.
For our first family ski trip, we did a DIY trip. Easyjet to Zurich and then train to Braunwald and then used this hotel - which is the most family orientated hotel that you'll ever come across. Their play facilities were superb and they also offered a free nanny service in the mornings should the kids not want to ski all day.
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DIY,
2 bed apartment, £750.00 ish
Dover to Alps, £400.00 ish inc crossing and Tolls
2 adult lift passes, £250.00 ish
ski school x 2 £200.00 ish
food £150.00
meals out £150.00
Ski Hire £400.00
Less than £600.00 per head you can load the car with what you want no hassel in airports etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Try Austria or Italy. I managed a week holiday 650-700£ (all included except equipment rent as we got ours).
Even TO to France you can find the half board deals for around 400£.
Last year I was in Livigno and the place seems a good value for money. Self-catering TO deals can be found well under 300£ per person and the quality of apartments is high there/food is quite cheap
in bars and plenty of supermarkets there. Relatively cheap ski pass as well!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Best way to find out if it is worth it is to firstly calculate the FRC (full real cost) (yes include all those extras such as wife's magazines at the airport, new kit for little ones etc).
Once you have your FRC then calculate your ATSDS (Actual Time Spent Decent Skiing) this is time on the mountain spent skiing, not in restaurants, not standing under a pole with a cartoon skiing bear on waiting for Antoine to appear and take your scared children off your hands so you can actually do some proper skiing, not time spent waiting at the bottom of the lift for half an hour whilst someone snowploughs down to meet you and not the half hour spent everyday waiting on someone in the group to adjust their boots, set off and then stop again to take off their gloves to readjust their boots again....and so on.
Divide the FRC by the ATSDS to arrive at your SCHR (Ski Cost Hourly Rate). Then base your decision on the maths and go on your own with mates who can ski and happy to drink cheap wine.
Rant over.
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I've just gone through this as well, although our daughter is only 2, nearer 3 by the time we go, so hopefully my comments will help you make your mind up.
we had planned on going to Claviere in Italy this year, again, because it's the place we go most years, we know the place, it's relatively cheap to eat and ski in and Crystal have a club hotel there with creche.
I priced it up and it was over £1,800 before even thinking about child care or lift passes.
I then called Esprit and was very very surprised by the cost of a week in Courchevel. It's cheaper than Crystal were for Claviere, but includes a full weeks child-care. All we need to worry about now are lift passes.
IMO, the reputation that Esprit have make it worth paying anything above the other TO's, the fact that they were cheaper in this case to go and stay half board in what is meant to be the most expensive resort in the French alps makes it a bargain in my book. Only time will tell, but at least we know that we should be in for a stress free ski holiday.
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Obviously I don't have kids so I can't comment on the family holiday aspect, but I always ski in March and I budget to spend £600-£750 which includes flights, transfers, half board hotel with single room supplement, ski carriage & lift pass all through a TO. So it strikes me that it ought to be possible for a family of four to do this for somewhat less per head (no single room supplements) and only have equipment hire and ski school as extras, does that really cost upwards of £200 per head?
France is never really on my radar as half board hotels seem to cost the absolute earth there, but I find plenty of possibilities in Austria and Italy.
Why not try contacting each of the TOs with a budget in mind and seeing what they can offer you?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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shortfat007,
Hi
3 bit of advice.
*One bit of snow is the same as the next at your level. Pick somewhere you like the look of in a brochure/website/etc and go there. I would suggest Austria would be a good option, as the villages look just like you'd expect them to.
*Remember that you are also on holiday as well as the kids - so, unless you really like washing up don't go DIY, it's really not cheaper than going with a TO, what ever you hear on this forum - am waiting for shouts of indignation 
*As long as you're not going at half term or New Year, it should not cost you more than around £650 to £690 per person (including ski school). Forget about how much adults pay and kids pay, just look at the total cost of the family. Try and get a holiday with everything is laid on for you in the price; flights, transfer, lift passes, ski school, equipment, child care (if needed), meals, etc, etc, etc.
Some more tips about skiing with young kids here
Last - remember it's a holiday, if you go there with an "I'm going to have fun attitude" you most likely will.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 6-08-10 13:00; edited 1 time in total
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Fogliettaz, he's already said he doesn't want DIY because he is saddled with sprogs. You've also failed to factor in childcare costs and you've forgotten that the kids (or at least one of them) might need a) a lift pass and b) a bed. 
shortfat007, if you don't like GVA, pick something which involves flying to another airport, though most of them are busy on winter Saturdays for obvious reasons. £5000 for a week in March sounds a bit steep, even allowing for the childcare business - you could probably DIY and rent a nanny for the week for less than that.
In fact, when I think about it, why not try that very thing? http://www.snowangelnannies.co.uk/index.html (for example).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Or alternatively take Wayne's advice, which is probably the most sensible so far.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If you want the childcare included I think you will find snow bizz in puy st vincent are the cheapest option. We used them the first time the children skiied aged 5 and 3 and had a great holiday. Snow bizz have all the kids clubs ski school options you'd need, resort they use is cheap and they have half board food option. I'd have thought you would find a week with them would be under 4k
you could also do DIY and use local ski school lunch club/afternoon club - eg. we stayed at Les cimes blanches appts la rosiere and used ESF ski lessons plus lunch club (afternoon creche available too).
This year we went to Montgenevre when children were 8 and 5 and we just booked ski lessons for them in the morning and skied as a family in the afternoon. The international ski school in montgenevre Apeak is very good and the Hameau des airelles appartments are nice with swimming pool and very reasonably priced - we paid around £500 for a 2 bed appartment with access to pool in March. We have not found self catering that much work. We pop out for a few croissants in the morning, either eat at mountain restaurant or come back for sandwich at midday. In the evenings eat out or cook something easy. you can borrow fondue sets in many appartments. The advantage we have found with self catering is that you can stay in some luxury properties with more space than a chalet and swimming pools/saunas etc.
If your children are skiing for the first time I think I'd recommend going with snow bizz as you will have more childcare etc available making for an easier first family skiing holiday. You could also look at the other child friendly companies like family ski, ski famille etc. if Esprit too pricey. Every time we go skiing I set up an excel spreadsheet and put all the costs in.
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You know it makes sense.
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Lizzard, There was an ish after each cost!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Some things which we learnt having taken our daughters from very young :
- take minimum 2 and if poss 3 pairs of gloves each. They do get very wet and can take ages to dry , and our kids got just as much ( and still for our now 8 yr old ) fun out of bum boarding , snow ball fights and general playing in the snow as the ski-ing itself- and almost as much time doing that .
- similarly as we have loads of hand me downs we took a ski suit and jacket/salopettes for each when they were small. They lived in them and their thermals basically all week. One on , one drying.
- good deals at TK Maxx , Decathlon for gloves , suits etc.
- our eldest took to ski-ing immediately . So we skied with her in the afternoons . Our youngest hates any lessons whether school or wherever and rebelled against childcare. So for 2 years we took it in turns to look after her . A pain but we both really went for it when ski-ing so made up for it. This worked for us , and now it is the other way round - they go for it , waiting for us to catch up or turn up.
- go with friends/family if poss
- accept some time out from ski-ing. It will not be for too many years.
- don't get wound up when things do not go well. It will get better !
And I very much agree with all Wayne's tips on ski-ing with kids - especially the immense amount of time it takes to get them kitted up in the morning . I look back on the first mornings - organising gear , ski school and lift passes all before lessons start ( this was pre-internet ) for us and kids as one of the most stressful things out.
John
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Poster: A snowHead
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shortfat007, the short answer is Yes it is that pricy - Ski Esprit are towards the top end, but always get praised here. Would probably be your best bet for a first trip.
It can be done a lot cheaper by DIY approach without a lot of hassle - a few nights on here and browsing resorts and the tourist office sites will get you sorted. But understand you may just want that hassle removed for first time.
Would suggest a kids club lesson at one of the snow zones - a few trips there are worth weeks when you get to the snow as kids will be used to boots, skis, cold etc. I am making an assumption here that your kids will be skiing at least a bit when you go. They are certainly old enough to try.
My only other tip as a parent of three is make sure they do a wee before you get them all bundled up to go out
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi. we took our kids for the first time last year (7 and 8 ) after years of putting it off because of the cost. We did the same as Ray Zorro suggests and tried to make the first trip as near perfect as poss to get the kids hooked and with a view to compromising on future trips.
As we don´t live in the UK a TO trip was more or less out of the question so went DIY. Cheap(ish) flights to Geneva, private transfer, self catering in P & V Flaine, international ski school.
Accom was perfect for us: slope side so no carrying all our and kids ski´s a long way or bus journeys, spacious heated boot room perfect for the half an hour (at least!) getting kitted out in the mornings!, kids had own bedroom perfect for them to have a bit of a rest after lunch in the apt before setting out again altogether in the pm. Also great as they could go to bed earlier than us on the nights they were shattered.
As the kids were beginners we didn´t need to get them a full lift pass. The first few days they used free lifts and then we bought points cards for the last few days.
The plan of getting them hooked worked and we went on a second trip a month later, this time driving to Andorra. The compromise was the drive (one daughter hated every minute of the eight hours!), and the accom (not ski-in ski out and quite noisy apartments so we all suffered from lack of sleep). But the skiing was great and suited all of us especially the kids who made a lot of progress on their second trip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I agree that for a first family holiday DIY and self-catering is not the best option - there's an awful lot to sort out, getting kids into the right gear, and into the right place at the right time, let alone getting yourselves off to lessons then sorting them all out afterwards when you're exhausted. Driving a strange car, with the gear stick the wrong side, on snowy roads and having to learn how to deal with snowchains, possibly in the dark, isn't much fun either. It can all go swimmingly easily, and the roads are mostly clear, but as ray zorro said, it's probably worth not cutting too many corners the first time - we met a family last season with kids traumatized from such a horrendous journey up from the airport that they'd had to stop further down the valley, knock up a sleeping hotel and beg a bed for the night. They knew how to do snowchains too - but one of the cheap and nasty chains had snapped and the car (despite snow tyres) wouldn't go up the hill with only one. They struck a very nasty night, one of the worst of the season, but it can happen. Once the whole family is hooked on skiing everyone will put up with that sort of stuff. Even if the journey goes well, sorting out hired skis and boots for the whole family, and getting your heads round the lift pass business, can be a bit of a palaver with nobody to point you in the right direction.
Yes, it is a very expensive holiday - there's absolutely no way round that.
If you choose a non school holiday week (mid March would be ideal) then the travelling shouldn't be too crazy and Geneva airport has the advantages of being in Switzerland (and therefore not subject to French ATC strikes) and not surrounded by high mountains (so less frequently disrupted by weather than some - e.g. Chambery, Innsbruck).
I've never been there, but the Puy St vincent set up does sound really good for families, if you want plenty of help with child care and ferrying. Personally, I am fine with self catering but it isn't everybody's idea of a holiday and you're a bit stuck in the evenings with small kids in bed. Opinions on catered chalets tend to be polarized but we always enjoyed them and both adults and children can have a bit of company. There's no need to go out in the evenings when you have a good big meal cooked for you, plenty of "free" plonk and some company.
Actually, most aspects of family ski holidays polarize opinion. some people dislike the companies which force kids to eat early and then have late "adult" dinners, others think they are fantastic. Some people want a set up where they can leave the kids with nannies, others prefer to look after them themselves.
But don't underestimate the difficulty of organising kids days if you can't ski at all yourselves (apologies if I've misunderstood and you're actually ace skiers). Some of the smaller ski companies get a better press here than some of the biggest - Ski Olympic, for example, is well thought of. They are small enough that if you ring them and discuss your situation you will get sensible guidance.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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many many thanks for all of the info and advice so far - does no-one do any work on a friday?
Some of the advice I'd never have thought of, and other aspects sound like inevitabilities. You just accept them and get on with it.
Was pretty peeved and discouraged by the experience of poring over brochures and putting requirements into price and availability tools only to for them to spit our eye-wateringly expensive prices for average looking hotels.
However - encouraged - I know what I'll be doing ths weekend!
Many thanks again...I'll be back for more.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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shortfat007, if you're prepared to wait until just before you go, you'll no doubt get very very good offers on late booking holidays from companies like Esprit. I'll go and have a troll through my old emails from them to see what they were offering as late breaks last season... bear with me.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I got these offers sent to me early in March. I'll probably do this from now on, but for this year, i wanted to know exactly what we were getting and get prepared for it as it's also our first big ski holiday away with the wee one.
prices included flights, transfers and half board accommodation.
Departing 14th March
Peisey Chalet Hibou Family of 3 £1099
Tignes Chalet La Grande Motte Family of 4 £1099
La Rosière Chalet Camelia 1 Adult and 1 Child £599
Departing 21st March
Resort Chalet / Chalet Hotel Price
La Rosière Chalet Cleopatra Family of 4 £1099
Obergurgl Chalet Verwall Family of 4 £1099
St Anton Chalet Alber Family of 4 £1099
Departing 11th April
Resort Chalet / Chalet Hotel Price
Les Arcs Chalet Olympus 1 Adult and 1 Child £899
Departing 18th April
Resort Chalet / Chalet Hotel Price
Belle Plagne Chalet Hotel Deux Domaines Family of 3 £1099
Family of 5 £1499
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shoogly, shortfat007, those are all pretty expensive resorts - OK if the parents already ski and want the children to spend the day in ski school/childcare while they free ski. But if they are all beginners or relative beginners, there are many other options where there are just as many opportunities to learn at a lower cost (ski passes, equipment rental, meals on the hill, etc)
There literally loads of Italian family orientated resorts with plenty for beginners to do without the need to buy a ski pass they haven't a snowball in hell's chance of being able to get any real value out of - same goes for Austria and France. Big names mean big money especially if you are using a British based tour operator to do all the donkey work. Most Austrian, German, French and Italian families that are still on the learning curve don't seem to be so label-driven as Brits!
Why not have a look at Wayne's options for example?
shortfat007, If you are worried about the kids taking to skiing or not, why not arrange some visits to a Fridge somewhere in the UK. Plenty of taster offers now in the quiet season and school holidays.
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Samerberg Sue, i totally agree about the prices that we pay to go skiing in france etc. and actually prefer skiing in Italy, but - and this is a big but when taking a young family on holiday - there are very very limited flights from Scotland that make it easy to get to a ski resort. If it was just me and the wife, then yeah, fair enough we could take a flight down to london and fly where we want, but the less hastle, the more we're prepared to pay, especially at this stage of the wee ones ski life
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I agree that a small resort is ideal, provided there is slope-side accommodation (really couldn't be bothered trying to get littlies and their gear onto crowded buses) and a good range of slopes for progression. Places like St Anton or Tignes would seem poor options but not all big resorts are necessarily a bad idea - some have plenty of easily accessible easy runs and good lifts to get to them, along with things like swimming pools for bad weather days.
Spending an entire weekend with the brochures is a recipe for brain-overload.... you just find one place that seems good, then you discover something bad about it.
Advice to wait and do a last minute booking is probably quite good, as there are a huge range of resorts which could suit you fine, and there are usually excellent discounts if you don't have rigid ideas about what you want.
If the budget is tight, lessons in a snowdome are quite pricey - a recent discussion on this came up with a range of opinions as to whether they are a good idea for little ones. If you live near one, and can take the kids in to have a lemonade and watch the skiing one Saturday morning, when kids lessons are on, it would be useful to gauge their reaction. They can as easily be put off by an upsetting session in a snowdome as by an upsetting session out on the real mountain. But if they are keen, and like it, they obviously get a great grounding for the real holiday.
4 is quite little for skiing - some 4 year olds (other peoples....) love the whole thing, can listen to someone talking funny for two hours, understand what's being asked of them and copy the lad in front, never get cold, can get their tiny willies out of their salopettes themselves when they need to wee, never get cold and don't lose their gloves. Others can just about cope with a one hour session, one to one, with a private instructor or a capable parent or grandparent, then want to go off and drink hot chocolate or cuddle up with a book. A few will just want to watch, and take their time, and absolutely hate being bullied into the gear.
The TO "learn to ski" weeks, with all gear and instruction provided, can be good value. Don't get too hooked on the "children go free" offers - they often seem to evaporate once you do all the arithmetic. Or if they don't, there are very few and never available when and where you actually want to go.
Ski holidays with small kids are absolutely not for the faint-hearted. But once you try it, you'll be hooked.
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shortfat007, Call Alpine Answers, they know their stuff and found us a bargain on our first ever family trip, or www.skifamille.co.uk their chalets in Reberty are in a great location right on the piste, or www.familyfriendlyskiing.com in La Tania, I haven't used either but noticed them when staying in both resorts.
If you going to do DIY, consider the drive Calais to the Alps is around 9 hours, can be a long drive with small children, first time you might be better of flying.
I would agree that catered is the way to go, so much less to think about.
What to take, boots we didn't on our first trip and got caught out when there was a dump and shoes just wouldn't do, you will need clothing that you can layer, no need to go to merino on the first trip, we found some ski trousers in our local charity shop, and bought at Tog 24 in the summer and got some good deals. we also carry some hand warmers if you have a Decathlon near you they do packs at a reasonable price, my daughter gets really cold hands, it took us a couple of seasons to work out that mittens are better than gloves.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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shortfat007, You should never need to pay full brochure prices for TO holidays unless your requirements are very inflexible (i.e. it has to be a particular resort, or even hotel).
Since this is your first trip, you can be as flexible as you like. Wait until a few weeks before going, then search the TO websites for cheap options, although even looking right now will get better prices than the brochure.
I just had a quick look on the crystal site (www.crystalski.co.uk), and staying at the Hotel Hafenwirt in Neiderau (Austria) on 12th March, the total cost for 2 adults plus two children, ski & boot hire for all four, lift passes for three (under 6 are free) and tuition for all four comes to £3216 at present. that is flying Gatwick to Innsbruck.
You will certainly get something cheaper than that if you wait until late January of February to book.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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shortfat007,
You’ll notice that a certain mindset pervades in some of the darker quarters of this forum. It’s basically if there is a way to save 10p on the cost of a ski holiday then it’s a good thing. It’s not. Imagine Ebenezer by candlelight, furtively poring over ski brochures each night for months on end, getting more sweaty palmed each time he finds yet another way of outwitting the evil travel industry.
Don’t wait until January to book a ski holiday for February, if you’re taking kids with you, that just daft.
OK you may be able to pick up a bargain on somewhere that no one else wanted to go to, but you have to think why it’s still available, why didn’t anyone else want that holiday. More importantly, what if the mythical good deal just ain’t there and you and your kids end up going no-where, or (more likely) end up paying more than would have if you had booked now.
Don’t go DIY on your 1st trip. This is just more daft advice.
Tour operators get a little slagging off here in the same way the supermarkets do at home. The standard arguments are that you can go to resorts the TO’s don’t offer, you have more flexibility on dates, it’s cheaper, you feel empowered, etc.
I should point out that as well as working at the ski school as an instrcutor, I also own a TO here, we take thouands of people each year skiing. I also sort things out when coaches have punctures, flights are diverted to airports hundreds of miles away, children lose their lift pass (or passports), rooms are not available on arrival due to being damaged by baths being left running the previous week, etc, etc, etc – not going to give a full list, but basically we sort out the stuff that most people never see, thus making their holiday actually happen. Oh and we also sort out the problems caused by any odd volcanic ash clouds
The reality is that there are virtually no good resorts that are not served by some TO or other. Most facility owners (hotels, chalets, apartments, etc) will want you to book weekend to weekend. There are a few that are not run along a standard business models and you may be able to book these from Wednesday to the following Friday, but these are few and far between. It is almost never cheaper, whatever anyone will tell you.
But there is one good thing about DIY’ing, yes you are empowered. But unless you or someone else in your group is an experienced skier and there is someone who understand the logistics required for a ski holiday don’t even think about it.
If you are looking for the feeling of “I did it myself” then fine go for it. I do this in the summer, for no other reason other than coz I want to and this is the reason most people do DIY ski holiday and this is the best reason, it’s simply because they want to. They may justify it with “it’s cheaper” or “I get to go a little resort with just one lift that no TO’s go to” or “I like to drive along French motorways”, (the list is endless) etc, etc but in reality they did it because they wanted to then find justifications later.
Last (and very important) item – when you have booked your holiday, stop looking for alternatives. Mrs W bought a new lap top last week. She was happy with it and all was fine in la maison d'W, the birds were singing, the sun was shining, aaaahhh, I remember those halcyon days. But then the dark times came, black clouds rolled in and deep pervasive malaise hung over l Maison d’W. Birds stopped singing (and those that did were stoned to death). A fearful quietness was seen in das kinder who would hind under their beds hugging teddy bears between them in a desperate, but futile, attempt at warding off the evil. Plague and pestilence ruled the land. Historians will argue why the dark the dark times came about but the reality is that Mrs W noticed the same lap top in an other shop for £25 less. OMG, can I take it back and get a refund, can I wipe the hard drive (they’ll never notice), sale of goods act (there “must” be something in there), etc, etc, etc for days and days and days and days. The world has gone mad. After you have booked your holiday, stop looking for alternatives or you’ll drive yourself (and everyone else) mad.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sat 7-08-10 8:37; edited 2 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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| Wayne wrote: |
shortfat007,
You’ll notice that a certain mindset pervades in some of the darker quarters of this forum. It’s basically if there is a way to save 10p on the cost of a ski holiday then it’s a good thing. It’s not. Imagine Ebenezer by candlelight, furtively poring over ski brochures each night for months on end, getting more sweaty palmed each time he finds yet another way of outwitting the evil travel industry.
Don’t wait until January to book a ski holiday for February, if you’re taking kids with you, that just daft.
Last (and very important) item – when you have booked your holiday, stop looking for alternatives. Mrs W bought a new lap top last week. She was happy with it and all was fine in la maison d'W, the birds were singing, the sun was shining, aaaahhh, I remember those halcyon days. But then the dark times started, dark clouds rolled in the birds all went away and plague and pestilence ruled the land. She noticed the same lap top in an other shop for £25 less. OMG, can I take it back and get a refund, can I wipe the hard drive (they’ll never notice), sale of goods act (there “must” be something in there), etc, etc, etc for days and days and days and days. The world has gone mad. After you have booked your holiday, stop looking for alternatives or you’ll drive yourself (and everyone else) mad. |
now that's very sensible advice!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Boredsurfing,
Hmmmmmm sounds like the frenchies are at it again
Try for a refund - possitive the courts would go in your favour
Just quote wiki-law
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wayne, as is so often the case, in amongst some perfectly valid points, you have some dafter ones and one major Aunt Sally. the OP is going in March, not February. Advice that they will get last minute bargains is perfectly valid. I agree that DIY isn't a good way to go for a complete newcomer to the whole business of ski holidays, but your constant insistence that there are no good reasons for anybody to do it is just nonsensical, frankly. A significant proportion of European families do it, for a start, and they can't all be deluded egomaniacs.
Your suggestion that resorts not served by TOs have one donkey tow and three short runs is also questionable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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One way for a beginner to go DIY, is to use a service in a resort that can assist you with organising all the extras that go with your holiday. http://www.eurekaski.com/beginners.htm will do just that for you in Serre Chevalier, and can also find you accommodation,, whether it is an apartment near the pistes, or a hotel. and transfers from the airport of you prefer not to drive.
They also have an arrangement for qualified nannies to look after the younger ones, either at your accommodation or in a local creche. http://www.eurekaski.com/childcare.htm . You can even turn your self-catering apartment into your own small catered chalet with a catering service.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Advice that they will get last minute bargains is perfectly valid. |
Should that not be
Advice that they "may" get last minute bargains even if not in their preferred resort or their preferred hotel is is perfectly valid.
| pam w wrote: |
| your constant insistence that there are no good reasons for anybody to do it is just nonsensical |
No, I have always said that the reason people DIY is as they want to. Nothing wrong with this, I do it. But to try and justify for almost any other reason simply doesn't stack up. If they want to DIY as they enjoy organising the trip, fine it's a perfectly good reason, I have never said differently.
| pam w wrote: |
| A significant proportion of European families do it |
A significant proportion of European families also live within a short drive of a ski resort, speak the local language, have in some case being skiing for generations to the the same resort/hotel/etc. If I want to go skiing in Glencoe, I'd drive up there and do it, for someone living in Berlin it's not so simple and they would be better off using a TO to arrange things.
| pam w wrote: |
| Your suggestion that resorts not served by TOs have one donkey tow and three short runs is also questionable. |
Your words not mine.
What I said was “The reality is that there are virtually no good resorts that are not served by some TO or other.”
It's true, can’t see a problem with that ?
I still think the OP, and most others, would be best off just going down to Thomas Cook or Googling, find somewhere they like the look of and just go on holiday and have a laugh, instead of spending months poring over websites and excel spreadsheets – unless, of course, they enjoy making the arrangements themselves and this DIY stuff is all part of their enjoyment of the holiday. In this case fine, go for it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I left the rest of my group getting ready on the first morning of our last holiday, while I went to get in the queue at the lift pass office.
Imagine my pleasure when I was the only one in that queue, waiting for the window to open in half an hour.
Picture my increasing bewilderment when - 15 minutes later - I was still the only one in the queue. I looked at the sign on the window....yep, opens at 09:00.
Take pity on me when - another 15 minutes later - I realised that the scrolling sign above the door might give me a clue if I could only decipher it's message.
Laugh at me when - 10 minutes later - I join the end of the queue at the tourist office, having found out that that was where lift passes were being handed out.
I still had the passes in hand, and was sat in a cafe having a coffee and croissant, when the rest of my party eventually got themselves sorted out.
Sorry, overlong and not that funny, but if this had been my first ski holiday I might have been rather more stressed out by the experience than I actually was. I had a fair idea of how things worked because I'd used TOs before, and had seen how it all worked - I knew enough to get everyone straight down to the hire shop on the afternoon we arrived, to get the skis and boots sorted out.
I'd recommend a TO for a first timer - just avoid a GVA saturday flight!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
“The reality is that there are virtually no good resorts that are not served by some TO or other.”
It's true, can’t see a problem with that ?
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It's not true. and what alex_heney said is that provided they didn't have their heart set on a particular resort or particular hotel, they would get a substantial reduction on brochure price booking at the last moment. We cannot at this point say that is definitely true, but if it turned out not to be true it would be the first year ever.
I wouldn't exhort people to avoid Saturdays in Geneva if other aspects of the holiday looked good. Out of the busiest school holiday times it's not too bad, though it's true that avoiding Saturdays if you can is always a good plan. Quite a lot of TOs do Sunday/Sunday.
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youspurs1, but you don't even have to get stressed queuing for the lift passes. You can order online, and have them delivered to your home address or even your accommodation.
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| Quote: |
You can order online, and have them delivered to your home address or even your accommodation.
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Given that it's pretty easy to do that in most resorts, these days, it's surprising how many people still spend a long time queuing for them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I went with Crystal on my first ski trip to Norway. I hadn't a clue at the time and wouldn't have known how to start going about organising my own trip. I usually go DIY now though and disagree with Wayne about prices. I'm off to St Anton next half term after going to Zermatt and Laax the last two. I simply couldn't afford to pay TO prices to go to those resorts that week. It will cost me just over £400 each for St Anton for flight + transfer + SC accommodation, I've paid about the same the last 2 years too.
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Are TO's still using the estate agent school of description generally?
I ask because I know of one chalet in Paradiski that is advertised as 200m from the piste.
True it is 200m as the crow flies to a quiet corner of a beginners area.
Worse the chalet is actually across a busy road and up a 20ft embankment.
BUT it is true to say it is 200m from a pisted area!
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FAQ
OMG 
