Race training for adults in UK

A snowHead

I would like to start race training as I feel it will help me develop my skiing. I also plan to go back to teaching at some point in the future, so I will need to start sooner or later. I've only done a few races whilst at uni and never any real training. Unfortunately work commitments mean I can't just pop over to the glaciers during the summer. I know lots of the dry slopes run race clubs for kids, but is there anything similar for adults?

A snowHead

Worth asking the question on snowRacers ( www.snowracers.net )

As far as I know, the dry slope races (at least a couple every weekend throughout the summer, starting about now...) are open to all, including Seniors/Masters....

The results from last summer's circuit are here: http://www.britski.org/04dry.htm

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I remember that Mark Hunter did some race training at a dry slope near us - here's the thread.

http://www.snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=81007

I guess your local slope is the best place to ask.

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philbski1 is the man to ask for advice in this area. I haven't seen him on the forum much recently, but he is an instructor with a dryslope/snow club in the UK, and involved with the racing side.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

beanie1, Try your local dry slope. There is usually a club or at least some training run at most slopes. If you enjoy this, then perhaps have a go on snow with one of the many snow training clubs. Look for their links on www.barsc.net

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beanie1, All the summer race series have adults (like me) partipating. Get used to sharpening your skis and have fun ! Laughing

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

beanie1, Milton Keynes Xscape does race training for adults. I believe it's 10.00am Sunday mornings. It might be worth travelling the extra distance to do it on real snow.

After all it is free

beanie1, I think there's still a summer race league at Rossendale. I should imagine that any of the clubs taking part would be running race training sessions.

thanks guys

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beanie1, Try the Lions ski club at Castleford Xscape, they meet every Sunday morning at 8.00am for 2 hours, they have lots of structured training the do racing for children and teens I'm not sure about adults but its worth a go if you want to travel that far.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Here's Lions ski club site.
beanie1, I've been wanting to go up to the Sunday session for a long time. Let me know if you decide to go, we could meet up, or share a car.

snow reports

beanie1, I think almost all dry slopes offer race training for adults. As ski, said you can race all over the place in the summer - a whole circuit at weekends - really good fun! I disagree with scream, that training on snow would be better - on the contrary, I should think training on plastic will improve your ski-ing much faster. It's a good idea to have a bit of armour though!

I may be slightly out of date, as I raced on plastic mainly in the 80's, but also managed to win the senior ladies overall one year - excellent fun and training.

easiski, I agree that training on plastic is good for technique. There are limitations for someone of my size, Dendix does not support my 14st in a carving turn. Also, on an average day my skis begin to melt half way down the slope, only in heavy rain or snow is the experience satisfying. I really begrudge ruining my racing skis on plastic, while hire skis are plainly not up to the job. The slope I use is sprinkled, though never quite enough for my liking. Still, it's pretty good for learning and teaching up to parallel, and kids manage to race on it too.

You know it makes sense.

MartinH,

Which dry slope do you use?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

beanie1, Stoke. It's a very friendly place and I had a great instructor to get me through ASSI and beyond.

A snowHead

beanie1, I would try the Rossendale Ski Club, used to be every Monday evening at Rossendale Slope.
The club is a members owned club using the slope owned by the local authority. It is possible that staff at most ski slopes are not that familiar with the activities of their local ski club. Another route to finding the information about both local clubs and the available racing is to contact the English Ski Council at Halesowen on 0121 501 2314 . Unfortuanately the ESC may not know about Summer Race Leagues as they tend to be run locally between clubs. Summer Race Leagues are an easy introduction to racing as they are very relaxed and friendly and, very importantly, you can practise on the course to be raced.

A snowHead

Russell, have you ever been to a Lions session? Is it training session?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

MartinH,

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ski, yes, inasfar as Martin Bell can be considered an expert on this topic.

http://www.hannou.alpesprovence.net/plastic.htm

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Interesting topic, PG. Does anyone have any info on how it affects "non-racing" skiing?

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marc gledhill, I met some of the instructor's and volunteers the last time I was at Xscape and I shall be going to sessions from may on wards when I get organised. I believe that they have a structure program for all levels of skier taught by members of the club who have done instructors courses. I have no idea how good they are or any other info but I will post details of my experiences after the event.

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Elizabeth B, sa far as I can see the main problem of Dendix is its consistency. You have to invent exercises to artificially induce movement, as it is possible to stay up skiing in an unbalanced, rigid posture. I don't think it's a good surface for recreational skiing, unless you have enough knowlege and pantience to do the exercises.

After all it is free

PG, OK, but for those of us who are never going to reach the British team I'm not sure the differences are that crucial. Certainly I can carve turns on plastic, most of the club I coach can..... I can't apply the sort of pressure to my skis that I can do on snow, but I can still carve. I need to be much much more sensitive on plastic, which cannot be a bad thing.

Mostly, IMHO too many people regard plastic as a place for beginners only. That isn't the case....

Russell,

Would be good to hear what you think. Castleford wld be quite far for me to travel on a Sunday morning, so would want to know it would be worth while!

ski,

I'm with you. Plastic is v different to snow, but in the same way that ice is different to powder is different to crud etc. I view plastic as just another snow surface to which you need to adapt your technique.

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ski, I don't think Martin Bell was suggesting any different, but for the record I'm sure that training on plastic is excellent preparation, and not just for beginners... snowHead

That said, the suggestion is that the surface doesn't permit the 'correct' carving technique for people beyond a certain weight, but I've no idea how fair a criticism that is.

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PG, Having read what he said in your link, it seems clear to me that he isn't saying you can't carve on plastic, but that you can't get the same extreme angles as you can on snow. Certainly this was true back in the bad old days of straight skis, and is no doubt exacerbated by the carving ski. However, that doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't race on plastic as an adult. Indeed it can't possibly hurt and is likely to help. As ski, says you have to be more sensitive - this must be a good thing.

In my day the courses set on plastic were much straighter than a snow course to avoid any such problems (and also to generate adequate speed).

MartinH, What else would you do on dendix except exercises? You certainly can't go ski-ing????

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easiski,

easiski, Yep the courses are still straighter - although much less so now with carving skis. As a freind found out a year or so back when he turned up with his 200cm P9s...............

MartinH, Sliding downhill on skis = skiing ? Puzzled

You know it makes sense.

I currently coach racers on both snow and plastic and, in my experience, If good skiing technique is employed, then there are many similarities. In fact, one of the athletes with whom I work recently came 2nd overall at the British childrens champs with only 5 weeks racing or training on snow and the rest of the year on plastic.
There are limitations to do with weight and the fact that on snow the pressure built up beneath the ski, and therefore support throughout the turn, is greater making it possible to create greater angles with the legs. Unfortunately, some less experienced racers will try many unorthadox techniques in order to achieve greater edge or carve by cranking their knees into the turn which will be detrimental to their general ski technique and possibly their joints.
The courses set on plastic at national level races tend to be far turnier than a few years ago.
One other limiting factor with plastic is that on a hot day, the bristles become softer giving way more easily and giving less support to the skier in a turn.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

beanie1, Russell, marc gledhill, MartinH, I've recently joined the Lions Ski Club at Castleford & went to my first sessions this week. I found the club by accident by turning up early on a Sunday a couple of weeks ago & couldn't get on the slope as it was being used by them.

The Sunday session (8am to 10am) has instruction across three ability levels namely, green, blue & red plus a race group. The club has sole use of the slope for the first hour & then the public can come in from 9am if there is space. I joined in with the red group which were all low-mid intermediates who were working on their parallel turning drills, but weren't carving yet. The instructor, Clare, had recently passed her BASI 3 with New Gen in Courchevel & seemed very capable. I couldn't join the race group as I didn't have my helmet with me, which is mandatory club rule for skiing the gates.

The Monday session (7.30pm to 9.30pm) is a race training session only & the instructors have their own ASSI instructor training class. Unfortunately there wasn't any real race training going on this week as they were timing the members through the gates as part of a team trials/selection procedure. Apparently things will be back to normal next week. I had my first ever runs through the poles & it was great fun, although I certainly need some serious instruction as I found that I kept sitting back. It's certainly a lot harder than it looked Shocked

The membership fee is only £25 per year & each session is only £16 including coaching (& the Xscape equipment if necessary) which is bargain compared to the standard slope charge of £30 or £22.50 for SCGB members.

Anyway, my new hand & shin guards arrived today so I'm looking forward to Sunday & Monday.

If it would be great if other fellow snowHeads came along

A snowHead

spyderjon, I presume that the red group is the more advanced of the three.

Do they split the race training into groups too?

A snowHead

spyderjon, I shall definitely be along some time after the EOSB I will only be able to go every other weekend but it would be great to have structured training throughout the year. I will PM you before I go, thanks for the information. snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

MartinH,
Do you go to the race training on Thursday night at Stoke, as I thought it was for juniors. If so, what is the standard like compared to the Masterclass on Monday nights.
David

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marc gledhill, Yes, you're right, red is the most advanced group. I don't know if they split the race training yet as they were doing their sqaud selection this week. I'll let you know after this coming Sun/Mon's sessions.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

spyderjon, please do. Monday evening sessions sound good, but I'd need a low end group if it's race training.

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spyderjon,

Keep us updated on the Lions race training. - I was a Lions member last year but didn't renew my membership this season. For various reasons it was easier for me to get to the Sunday morning sessions, although I suspect I'd be more challenged by the Monday evening programme.

If it sounds like it's not totally focussed on the junior racers (who are a pretty gung-ho bunch) I might give it another go.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

davidb,
Thursday session is mainly for juniors, my son attended the 'development' group for a while, it's all about racing. Monday masterclass is teacher training and personal development towards ASSI, though some have a long way to go. Different focus, different teachers.

After all it is free

spyderjon, what sort of numbers are attending sun/mon, ratio of instrutors - pupils etc.
Keep us informed of your progress and thoughts, may be tempted to join and attend.(Not sure if I could make it at 8am on a sunday ! - 100 mile drive - but may make the effort)

spyderjon,

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srobbo, In the 'red' group last Sun there were 7/8 of us plus the instructor. The race group seemed to have about 15 strong with 2/3 instructors. A couple of beginners seemed to be getting a cracking deal as they mastered their linked snowplough turns as there were only the 2 of them in the 'green' group with 1 instructor for 2 hours. The Mon evening race session had 15/20 people, mostly kids, with 2/3 instructors.

MartinH, Helmets are available f.o.c from Xscape. You've got the choice of paying the £25 membership fee + the £16 session fee on arrival but if you want to check it out in advance you can just pay a £20 visitors fee, but you can only do that once. Hope you can make it.
You should be able to spot me easily enough - black pants, black helmet, orange boots & black spyder jacket (what else! wink

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Race training for adults in UK

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