sasha320, there is definitely much fun to be had on a career break year than to spend your time doing BASI qualifications only to probably not go on to use them in practice (although I accept that some people see them as a challenge whether or not they are actually going to use them). To get up to ISIA (L3) level costs literally thousands of pounds and like others have said, a lot of the time you aren't actually skiing yourself. There is also a big difference between being a competent holiday skier even at black run level who skis a few times a year, and being an ISIA level skier, it could be too much of a bridge to cross in that timescale, but then you are finding that part out already by having a BASI Trainer look at your skiing. You'll know where you are on that soon enough.
As others have said, there are courses available which don't involve instructor qualifications but are designed to improve your skiing and basically have fun, and that would be challenging in itself. This is one example:-
I was referring to the AMP near the bottom of the page by the way, but they do quite a few different sorts of trips over different periods of time if you look. I think the AMP one is some kind of certification course in itself from what they've said. You'd definitely spend a lot more time on your own skiing than on any full time instructor course anyway. Although with the AMP, everyone does the CSIA L1 qualification apparently, despite it not being one of their official instructor courses. Not sure why really!
Alternatively, if it was me, I'd spend the money on heliskiing or going to Japan skiing or something. I'd spend a few weeks here, a few weeks there, basically thoroughly enjoying myself, or I might go somewhere for the whole season. For me personally I wouldn't spend the money on BASI unless I was going to ski instruct as a job at some point in the future. Since I know I won't, I'd rather spend my money on other things ski related.
Up to you though.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
sasha320, you've lined up a season in Verbier, home to some of the best off piste terrain on the planet. Also sitting on the Haute Route, probably the most famous high mountain itinerary. And you have Chamonix down the road.... Have you thought about spending your season improving your off piste skiing and trying out ski touring to open up the spectacular Alpine scenery on your soon to be doorstep? Unless you love teaching I'd have thought that would be much more fun than teaching kids how to snowplough! And if you're after a challenge you'll be pleased to know the only limit is your skiing ability and the size of your balls!
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 26-07-10 11:18; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Sasha
If I were you and it's possible I'd try to do the L1 and L2 in advance of taking your career break. L1 indoors in the UK, followed by 70 hours shadowing in your spare time. Then take a 2 week holiday to do your L2 (assuming you're at the level which you'll know next week), and start working towards your 200 teaching hours. Don't underestimate how long it will take you to get these - it's approx 8 weeks of teaching.
Then take your career break to work towards your L3 - that will give you plenty of time to spread the courses out over several seasons, and spend lots of time working on your personal performance.
(even after I got a bit shirty at one point in the thread! <blush>)
Nah! i doubt anyone noticed, if you want shirty, try starting a thread with Helmets, Inner tip lead or avalance cords as the title or maybe all three
So, I read somewhere that it was safer to ski without a helmet... <hehe>
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Hi guys, maybe someone can help me.
I was looking for a thread on BASI qualifications and this was the closest I could find.
I have been looking at getting my BASI 1 and 2 and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on the best way to do it.
My mate got his with a company called Ski Force last year and apparently it was a good laugh, but I wondered if anyone had any other ideas or experiences?
The best route to take depends on your preferences, current technical ability, and how much time you have.
Gap Year courses are a great option to develop your technical and teaching abilities over a longer time period. However, if you don’t have 11 weeks to devote to a Gap Year course you can do the BASI qualifications course by course. The first step, Level 1, is a 5 day course and can be done either in the Alps, or on an artificial slope in the UK. Once you’ve passed this course you need to do a first aid course, child protection module and 35 hours shadowing to validate the qualification. You will then be a qualified L1 instructor, and able to teach on artificial slopes. After a further 35 hours shadowing or teaching you can do the Level 2, which is a 2 week course in the Alps. At the end of your L1 course the trainer will tell you how much time and training they feel you will need before you’re at the level for L2.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
All feedback, ideas and opinions welcome.
If there is a massive powder day do you really want to be teaching snowplough on the nursery slopes ?
BobinCH gives the best advice so far on this thread.
If your only taking one year off , and can afford to, then just go be a ski bum.
Its the best profession in the alps - and you will have the most fun out of anyone in resort
Ski instructing isn't actually that glamorous - you need to be just as enthusiastic about the teaching as the skiing.
Why look after other people kids on the nursery slopes when you could be getting balls deep in a Verbier couloir ?
I would still do L1 or L2 exams - ideally before you go.
They are good fun and worthwhile.
If you can already ski then no need to go for an expensive gap course.
Dont worry about L3 unless you decide to take up ski teaching as a career.
After all it is free
After all it is free
davepullen, welcome to snowHeads.
If you think your skiing is close to the standard required for BASI Level 1 I would suggest that you simply sign up for the course and give it a go. The easiest and probably cheapest way to get L1 is to do it at The Snow Centre in Hemel Hempstead. It's a five day course, usually run Monday-Friday, and The Snow Centre is running the L1 every month through until October. Once you have done the L1 course you will then need to complete 70 hours of shadowing and do a 2-day 1st Aid course before you can book your L2. The Snow Centre is very happy to offer shadowing hours. You will get feedback on your L1 course about what aspects of your skiing, if anything, you need to develop before going on to do the L2.
If your skiing is not up to the standard of the entry point to L1 there are a variety of gap courses you could do if you wanted that option. In my opinion these are expensive options but most of them seem to be a good way to develop your skiing. Some of the gap courses are listed on the BASI website, but there are plenty of other ski schools which offer them (eg Snoworks, Warren Smith, Interski, and plenty of others).
If you aren't sure about your level we run a Pre-BASI assessment day at The Snow Centre which will give you feedback from a BASI Trainer (examiner) on your current level of skiing as well as a day's coaching focused on the level you need to reach to gain Level 1. We don't currently have the date for the next course, but we will confirm shortly - it's likely to be in September.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Thanks a lot beanie1,
Ideally I want to do it 'gap year' style so to speak as I am not doing anything else at the moment, also it should be a good way to meet people.
I might check out the company my mate went with, its just quite a lot of money thats all
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
davepullen, that Ski Force one looks quite expensive if you are trying to to get the qualifications as cheaply as possible (£7,100, or £8,100 if you don't want to share a room. If you want the race training option thrown in it's an extra £1,000). Have a look at the gap course run by Snoworks which is £6,485 and operates pre-season so you complete the L2 by December which will allow you to start looking for teaching hours at the start of the season.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
rob@rar wrote:
If you aren't sure about your level we run a Pre-BASI assessment day at The Snow Centre which will give you feedback from a BASI Trainer (examiner) on your current level of skiing as well as a day's coaching focused on the level you need to reach to gain Level 1. We don't currently have the date for the next course, but we will confirm shortly - it's likely to be in September.
We've now confirmed that date for Tuesday 21 September. Booking details will be on our website shortly.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Many thanks to everyone who has provided input, feedback and advice, I really appreciate your time and it is increasingly looking like BASI 3 might be off the cards for all the right reasons. I'll let you know how I get on at the Snowdome on Saturday! Again, much appreciated. Sasha
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hurtle said
Quote:
I have many friends who work as lawyers in the City who would love to do the same sort of thing, but simply daren't.
yes!!!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
sasha320, just to offer a differing view, I was in your position 4 years ago and decided a wee skiing sabbatical was required. I ummed and ahhed about lots of options (much as above) and ended up choosing......... A GAP course in Verbier! While I understand the arguments against, I felt that having a qualification goal would prevent me squandering my time before returning to my "normal" job. fast forward to now and it has been truly life changing, 3 seasons teaching in Verbier, next 2 already signed up for. Returning clients, great friends and a much improved quality of life.
some of my fellow can be quite scathing about GAP courses but I think for someone approaching the industry from the outside they have their place and personally I loved mine. break down all the elements and they can be reasonable value for money.
So good luck with your assesment and keep us updated. IMHO your age might actually stand you in good stead for getting employment. A lot of the "nervous intermediates" tell me they prefer a more "mature" instructor to a gung-ho young un! See what your trainers say but for me, level 3 is at least worth tilting at in your timescale so long as you accept you wont make it pay for itself in 18 months. Good luck
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
There are so many choices out there, but to simplify it all and so that you can make a genuine comparison with all the details I made sure that I asked the companies these questions and then compared them: (helped out by my ski instructor brother)
Do they provide/organise employment opportunities after the course?
How many hours of training do you get each week?
Does the level of qualification allow you to work worldwide? or even where you want to work?
What is the standard of accommodation and food?
Are there any licencing fees that are of extra cost?
What extras do they give you that are free of charge?
Does the courses accept anyone or is there a minimun level (good indication of the qualification level - if they accept anyone then the training and quals may not be worth much)
Is the company that provide you with the package the comany that provides you with the training - if not who delivers the course? Most companies are agencies and do not deliver the courses themselves - question the quality of training.
Also how many people will be in the training groups?
That should weed out the worthless and leave you with a geniune choice of experts with good offers!
PS I'm thinking of doing my instructor course with - http://www.gapskianddive.com
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
And if you are up north I'll happily take a look at the Chill Factore in Manchester.
You may find my story interesting.
Similar circumstances prompted me to go and do what was then the Foundation course.
I'd been skiing over 20 years, could get down anything on or off piste, any conditions, with style. Raced to national level as a junior.
Had a miserable time but sailed through Foundation (personality clash with trainer).
However she did completely change my skiing, starting the process of bringing it up to date.
Went and did the now level 2, sailed through, great trainer who I later used for personal training (Derek Tate in Chamonix).
Derek continued to develop the changes in my skiing from the Foundation.
Had only done this as a bit of a personal challenge & to add some interest to my skiing.
So far it hadn't been particularly challenging, but I had had my interest tweaked & discovered I loved teaching.
Decided to have a go at my 3, trainers said it should be within my grasp.
Logged my hours teaching kids with the schools operators for virtually no pay.
Bought and read (unlike most people) the 2 books
Did the Common Theory, complete waste of time & money, but ticked the box.
In those days there was only one performance module, the APC, the racing one.
Did that, amazed me how many turned up never having skied gates, and promptly failed.
The course is about teaching it, you need to already be able to do it to a passable level.
Did the Off Piste course, again amazed how many people turn up on an assessment unable to do it, and not having read the books.
Know how to use a map & compass properly, be spot on with your transceiver, and at least have a go at skinning first.
Went off & learned to Telemark as my 2nd discipline.
You notice the difference between a green & a blue when you are a beginner again !
Did exactly what everyone says not to do and booked the Technical & Teaching back to back.
Had a disastrous technical, didn't understand the trainer, got full-on sun stroke & a knee injury, failed.
I had started to change my technique to a modern one, but it just wasn't quite there yet, the failure was fair.
Just wanted to go home, not a good mental frame for the Teaching course.
Pulled myself together, and passed it.
Technical course had taken my old school skiing apart but not put it back together again.
Took me 4 weeks just to get back to where I was.
But Derek Tate & some pupils from the course persuaded me not to give up, and to have one more go.
Spent the next season working on my weak points (ie. anything on piste !!)
I had a couple of privates with Derek to make sure I was on track
He also does instructor afternoons where instructors of all levels do some work with a trainer.
At the end of the season I passed my technical, and finaly after several years and many thousands of pounds and a lot of grief got that little ISIA stamp.
The point of all this is, even if you are good, a L3 is a big step (most people reckon 2 to 3 is a bigger step than 3 to 4)
If you have been skiing a long time, its probably going to be a lot harder.
I have no regrets, it was really hard and cost a fortune.
But it changed & improved my skiing, and I discovered I had a passion for, and was reasonably good at teaching
I now spend my seasons teaching what I want when I want.
But if this is just a year out, I do question if it is the best use of your time & money.
By all means do the L1 & L2 if you fancy doing a bit of teaching & like the idea of being able to say 'I'm a ski instructor' - nothing wrong with that.
Be honest with yourself, is it the badge that matters ?
If it isn't, there are plenty of other better ways to massively improve your skiing, have an amazing adventure etc etc as suggested above
And if you end up following gorilla's suggestion re Verbier, drop me an email & we will go play ....
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 30-07-10 8:20; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Alan McGregor, very sensible advice IMO. Thanks for sharing with us how it all went for you.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Alan McGregor, Thanks for that open and honest 'warts and all' look at the system i found it very informative
Alan McGregor, Did you take your level 2 (or ski instructor as it was back then ) with Derek Tate in Tignes April 2001?
Your name seems familiar, from back then.
Duncan
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
In fairness to BASI, I'm a dreadful pupil (aspergers)
Maybe that's why I am a more sensitive teacher ????
(and if you've read my other posts, why I tend towards the analy technical !!)
Alan McGregor, Did you take your level 2 (or ski instructor as it was back then ) with Derek Tate in Tignes April 2001?
Your name seems familiar, from back then.
Duncan
Something familiar about Dunk too, & it was Derek in Tignes in April, but 2002 I think
Trying to remember the group ...
Scottish ex-Army chap
Young very good scottish guy I got on well with, did the Off-piste race together with disastrous consequences ...
Umm ... chap I did my teaching demo with, discovered you can't snow-plough down a cliff ....
We all passed ...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
skiguy1, welcome to snowheads.
Alan McGregor, really great report on your experiences with BASI, thanks for posting.
After all it is free
After all it is free
sasha320, belatedly, welcome.
I'd second all suggestions that a. you would find original plan massively frustrating when you can't pop out for a beer cos you're studying, can't drink a glass of wine with dinner 'cos you have a hard core trainer who won't let you and can't ski teh powder with the big boys and girls because you're on the nursery slopes in the village in the rain with an oversized group of 4 year olds challenge, schmallenge, sounds like a nightmare to me.
Also, I know a few very good recreational skiers who've lived in the alps for years, ski hardcore and would struggle with elements of L3 purely as they aren't (or not any more) trained racers.
How about simply aiming to ski massively, learn a couple of languages (formally, not by hanging in bars), do a distance learning personal performance coaching qualification (e.g. Newcastle College offers one), write up a thesis on a topic you enjoy but haven't had time to really get into, etc.?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
sasha320, I 100% second what Haggis_Trap, says (and that guy can ski a bit), As others have said L1 and L2 will be interesting and give you a taste, but as a long term (38 years) professional ski teacher, I have to say that it's not glamorous, you hardly ever get to ski and if you don't love teaching it's not worth the penury! If you love teaching of course, there's no other life worth considering!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Alan McGregor, Yes 2002 only a year out.
Mark the ex RAF
Gordon the mad ex-scottish racer, straight lining the Leisse bumps, getting very drunk in Alpaka with his strange drinks.
Julian skied with him following season for a day in Val d'Isere
Me hurt my back doing John Wayne turns and could not do ski off on last day.
Must have been you if I remember correctly skied bumps well and had been skiing a long time like me. The off piste race, now I remember
Two James?
Two girls one named Helz?
Must be one more.... we all passed.
Not sure if it was me snowploughing down cliff........
I done my first teaching session (beginner snowplough) in the middle of a motorway piste, not the most suitable place..
Pleased you are now ISIA.
I only started ISIA courses this last season, no motivation for a while. Sraight in deep end with race coaching 1 and 2. Then took tech, failed but was close so will re-take this season.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Tue 27-07-10 21:05; edited 1 time in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Dunk, Alan McGregor, just a thought, but no worries if you'd rather not, have either of you got any video of you skiing off piste or bumps so that people can see what ISIA level skiers look like, so to speak? That might be quite useful maybe? Mind you, I don't know if the 'untrained eye' would notice the subtle differences or not?
What do you think? Hope you don't mind me asking that There might be some ISIA level video footage on some Snowheads threads somewhere but they may not be appropriately titled to be easy to find, unless someone happens to remember seeing some.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
What a fascinating thread this has turned out to be...
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
VolklAttivaS5, The last video of me skiing bumps was on the tech, lost one ski, managed to stay up for a couple of bumps then trainer turned off the camera before the somersault!!!!
There is some video on bend ze knees but think they are ISTD candidates.
Generally if you are close to standard you will know, out of the 8 of us who started course after first morning I thought that 1 would pass and 3 of us would be close. 3 passed in end.
Consistency in bumps is a must, as they are a very good test of skiing.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Dunk, yeah I'm sure if you're about to start the course you'd know but I thought it might be useful for others to see what ISIA standard looks like, as everyone has said, it's a big ole step up from L2, massive, in fact. I think I've seen the video of the ISTD candidates, although these people will be at ISIA level obviously but we can't tell how much higher than ISIA level they are, but not quite ISTD level, if you see what I mean.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
VolklAttivaS5, I do not think I have any recent video, not even of any friends who are either ISIA's or aspiring.
I have some photos but you can not really tell anything from a photo.
There is a big gap, much bigger than seemed to be between old 3 and 2. The way you need to be able to steer you skis is one big thing, you need to be able to steer them all through the turn. Bumps control, turn shape, snow contact and SPEED!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Dunk, that's ok, I'm just having a look on You Tube if there is any. Quite a lot of ISTDs admittedly. Yes agree about there being bigger gap between L2 and L3 than G3 and G2 from what I have gathered, anyway. Thanks for being helpful.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dunk, I'm not sure what level obtained these guys actually are, doesn't say on the video but it's a higher level than I am anyway
It all depends on what the task is. In the first shot on bumps without powder, unless they were expressly trying to ski slowly and in control they weren't fast enough for ISTD. However it did look as though skiing in control and steadily was the task.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
VolklAttivaS5 At least ISIA! In the first short sequence the two skiers behind do not appear so comfortable in the bumps?
First bumps beneath Le Fornet cable car. Last short video of bumps bumps on black off the side of Solaise, piste S?
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 28-07-10 8:45; edited 1 time in total
It says training so not yet at standard.
I do know this skier.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
VolklAttivaS5 clip
Hmm, reckon these guys are at ISIA level.
If training for ISTD, they've got a bit to do
Dunks clip
I would agree, above clip isn't at the standard.
I'm not a trainer, but I would have said he was quite a long way off, but was technicaly proficient enough that he could make the step up relatively quickly and easy
He is standing on the skis, not actively steering them
BASI actualy have some key pointers they are looking for at each level. Why they keep them secret I don't know.
But a couple I have managed to find out ...
In bumps they are looking for you to ski the fall-line (but not a rut line) smoothly, consistently & at a constant pace.
They are looking for you to be actively steering the ski rather than just skidding round
And the real 'they pass' one is tipping
This is where you actively tip the ski downward as you go over the bump so the front of the ski maintains snow contact and hence can steer effectively
For most people it feels like pulling your feet back up underneath you.
They have relaxed a little about stance, but they are still looking for hip-width as a starting point.
As an old school feet glued together skier, this was one of the hardest ones for me.
A close second to bumps is short radius piste.
They will look very closely at what point in the turn you start to actively steer the ski.
Level 2 - fall -line onwards (call this 9 o'clock)
Level 3 - pre fall-line, somewhere around 10.30
Level 4 - all the way round, 12 o'clock
Of-piste / Variables
Solid rounded S turns at a reasonable speed in all conditions
You will definitely be expected to have high speed carving totaly nailed.
Generaly they like to see you mixing it up, using a variety of turn shapes.
However the tasks set often preclude this on-piste, so off-piste is the best place to show it.
doesnt say how many, if any, passed but if they rocked up they musta thought they were ready.
L4 technical is a very demanding week from what i hear especially the bumps rut line. a couple guys i have trained with who had passed the eurotest thought the tech was tougher.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Dunk, Alan McGregor, thanks for the info. In the clip I posted, my gut feeling initially (based on the ISTDs I have seen skiing) that those guys were ISIA level and training towards getting themselves up to ISTD standard. In Dunk's clip of the guy training towards ISIA, he looked to me to be quite far off the level as Alan McGregor said, based on the difference between that clip and the one I posted of the guys who we have presumed to be at least ISIA level.
Alan McGregor, thanks for taking the time to post those tips. Certainly a lot of them rang bells to me.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
skimottaret, yeah, there seems to be quite a bit of video on You Tube of ISTD training and assessment, but not so much of ISIA. Thanks for posting.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
or maybe all three 
can be quite scathing about GAP courses but I think for someone approaching the industry from the outside they have their place and personally I loved mine. break down all the elements and they can be reasonable value for money.
There might be some ISIA level video footage on some Snowheads threads somewhere but they may not be appropriately titled to be easy to find, unless someone happens to remember seeing some.
