 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi
I am currently planning to take a hard earned career break and would welcome any feedback / suggestions / advice / opinions etc., on my proposed plans, as I start more detailed planning.
The aspiration is to take about a year or so off and achieve my BASI level 3 (or even 4?)
I hope to kick off the process by getting my BASI 1 & 2 in Verbier from Nov 2010 to Jan 2011, then spending the rest of the season in Verbier building up some hours instructing.
How feasible will it be to earn instructor hours in Verbier from Jan 2011 to April 2011? I am willing to deliver the lessons for free if necessary (i.e., no charge from me to any ski school) and I will have accommodation sorted out for the entire season.
Then the plan is to have a short break from the mountain before heading off to either New Zealand or Argentina over the summer of 2011 to gather more ski instructor hours. Again, how feasible is this? Assuming the option to provide lessons for free is available.
Once the southern hemisphere season is over, I would hope to return to Europe to achieve my BASI level 3 qualifications in the 2011/2012 season.
After that? Back to reality and nose to the grindstone in the UK.
Does anyone have any suggestions / guidance / proposals etc. on the above? All feedback, ideas and opinions welcome.
Many thanks
Sasha
p.s., I am 38, physically fit, an advanced recreational skier and after over 10 year's slog in a professional career the UK need a complete change for a bit!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sasha,
It is very hard to comment on how possible your plan is when I've not seen you ski but you are giving yourself a very tight schedule of exams there!!
this is possible, I completed my ISIA L3 in one season but its a lot of exams!! You would need to be starting with the pre season exams and you would need to fit the common theory module in scotland either at the beginning of the summer or end!
As far as the Southern hemisphere goes I think you would be able to teach paid with a L2 if you apply for the job early! The hills over here in NZ are small and there aren't many bumps but for piste training I've found Coronet Peak very good. A little limited for off piste and bumps though. I've not made it to other resorts yet but am planning to so can keep you posted!
There are also good gap courses and bad, assuming your doing a gap course............look into this very carefully!!! I know there are good courses in Tignes and Val d'Isere, TDC and ICE but verbier I'm Unfortunatley I'm not an expert on but I'm sure some other Snowheads may be able to chip in??? 
you could also consider getting ahead of the game and doing the L1 in a snowdome this autumn.......the training could be a very helpful resource to you for information and ideas!
Good luck with it and welcome to BASI!!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just a thought but why not do your level one over here in a snowdome and get your 35hrs instructor shadowing either in a dome or on a dry slope, you will also have to do your first aid and safeguarding but it would put you ahaead of the game and make the time frame more achievable.
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Alex / Kevin, many thanks for your advice, I'll deffo be exploring the Snowdome angle! Many thanks Sasha
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Would make sense to do your Level 1 pre-season in the UK, and get your first set of hours.
This will give you an idea of where you stand ability wise.
You could then do your Level 2 at the start of the season.
Both Verbier & Nendaz (cheaper living costs) employ Level 2s
Be careful with gap courses, check their pass rate first.
In reality BASI courses are not courses, they are assessments.
There simply isn't time to make major changes to your skiing.
Get some external training, especialy between your 2 and your 3
If nothing else you will be able to go into your Level 3 technical knowing where you stand.
The Level 3 Technical can be very high pressure
Learn the manual before you go - there is a written paper
Know you are at the right standard before you go
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You might find it difficult to get a job in Verbier after your course.
I'm guessing you are planning on a Peak Leaders course as they do those dates. Be aware that last year only a very few of the people who did that course were offered a job at then end of it (3 or 4 I think), they were the exceptional students.
The rest did not find work.
Bear in mind that the ski schools sign up their staff for the season well in advance.
You will stand a good chance for 1/2 term, but that aside...good luck.
I'd strongly suggest get a L1 in a snowdome ASAP, do the required hours and the L2 on a pre-season course in October/November so that you can try to find a job, already L2 qualified, before the season starts.
My son did his L1 and L2 in successive summers at Hintertux, he had very extensive references and contacts in Verbier. He had a portfolio of clients who had written covering letters guaranteeing bookings to a ski school that hired him. Even with all that he really struggled to find a whole season job (thogh got offered several peak season only)
He still had to persevere and got lucky at the last moment. It all worked out very well, he rose up their pecking list significantly (calculated on how much business you attract) and has been offered ongoing work.
I really wish you well in this project, but don't underestimate it.
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Thank you Alan, sounds like excellent advice to consider the time available to make any necessary uplifts in skiing technique. The case for practical exposure to the BASI levels at a UK Snowdome is strengthening by the minute!
In terms of predicting how my skiing ability will fit into my proposed plans, I figure it is difficult to predict; I have been skiing for over 20 years and often 2 or 3 times a season, I can ski all terrain and most blacks and off piste with total control.
That said, I have not had anything more than a handful of formal skiing lessons in my life, so I suspect that on the one hand 20 years skiing experience gives me a good start, on the other hand I'm sure there is some bad technique baked into my skiing that would need time to coach out.
Can anybody recommend a good Snowdome to get stuck into BASI 1? I live in London.
And thanks to all!
Sashaaaaaaa
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sasha320, if you plan to return to 'normal' work after your gap year is it really necessary to aim for BASI L3? It's a significant step up from L2 in terms of technical demand, time commitment and finance. If you don't plan on doing much ski teaching after your year off I can't see the point of aiming for L3.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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in fact what's the point of spending all that money doing BASI and time giving free ski lessons? A career break sounds a great plan, but given that you're obviously got enough money to spend the time on the slopes rather than earn money. there might be more fun things to do than spend hours and hours perfecting your snowplough. You could do lots of off piste exploring and touring, for example.
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Rungsp, thank you for your post, I agree, it feels like I would struggle to secure any instructing work in-resort having only just qualified in the January - your advice is consistent with other input which is to apply early and be really good.
Unfortunately, I am unable to apply early as I don't have the L2 yet, and it remains to be seen whether my skiing ability will neatly dovetail into my proposed overall plan or whether I need horrific levels of remedial work!
(I figure there are too many qualified instructors chasing too few places for any ski school to take an advance application from me as a yet-to-be-qualified instructor.)
In order to TRY and mitigate this situation, I am hoping that by completely taking care of my own costs and offering my services to a ski school for free, this would give me a at least a handful of lessons from Jan 2011 to April 2011. The remaining pre-requisite instruction hours for Level 3 I would hope to achieve in the Southern hemisphere in the summer of 2011.
Even so, the priority is to get to the Snowdome to get a take on my skiing ability into the mix!
As an aside, I appreciate that for some, offering my time for free once qualified is bending the rules a bit and could even be considered as undermining the experience that I looking to gain, but then I need to mitigate my age and the fact that if I don't gun for these exams now, I am unlikely to ever be able to do it!
Again, thanks to all, any further views gratefully accepted!
Sasha
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| sasha320 wrote: |
Can anybody recommend a good Snowdome to get stuck into BASI 1? I live in London.
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The Snow Centre in Hemel Hempstead.
If you're interested in getting feedback on where your skiing is currently in terms of BASI levels we run a Pre-BASI assessment day where you get personal feedback from a BASI examiner and a day's coaching for personal performance and Central Theme work. We don't currently have a date scheduled for the next of these courses, but we'll do that soon and it will be during September most probably.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Rob
Thank you for your reply.
My motive for aiming for BASI Level 3 is to provide an appropriate challenge over the course of the year (3 seasons) that I am taking off from my UK career.
If it transpires that getting my BASI 3 is beyond my capability or the time I have available; then I would revise my plans and possibly explore investing time and money into improving my technique and ability outside of the BASI framework over the summer of 2011 and winter 2011/2012.
However, being a results orientated sort of person I would want to have something significant to show for such a long time away from my UK career and based on my preliminary research, BASI 3 appears to be a good aspiration - however I am definitely starting to noting that everyone is suggesting BASI 3 is a BIG challenge!
If anybody has any alternative ideas / examples then these are more than welcome!
So, I am not wedded to the idea of a BASI 3 if there are alternative options that are worthy of gunning for.
Thanks to all for reading and / or posting!
Sasha
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| sasha320 wrote: |
So, I am not wedded to the idea of a BASI 3 if there are alternative options that are worthy of gunning for.
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I suppose the question is why do you want to qualify as an instructor?
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You know it makes sense.
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sasha320, welcome to snowHeads. I'm fascinated to know what career enables you, it appears, to feel confident that you will slot straight back in after such a long break.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Rob, I will definitely reaching out to InsideOut skiing to do some pre-assessment work to bring my skiing competency into the mix. thanks Sasha
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hurtle
I am a management consultant, I run my own practice with an equity partner who will run the practice whilst I am away.
Most of my client contacts these days are all friends or at least people who I am very close to professionally. Interestingly, many of them really support and endorse my plans, I thought some of them would be less supportive.
We have just seen the return of a colleague who took a year off to go on maternity and has seemlessly integrated back into the practice and client work.
That said, an absence of this kind does require careful planning!
Sasha
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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[quote="rob@rar"]
| sasha320 wrote: |
So, I am not wedded to the idea of a BASI 3 if there are alternative options that are worthy of gunning for.
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I suppose the question is why do you want to qualify as an instructor?[/
I am currently of the belief that BASI level 2 should be relatively easy for me to achieve (I accept that I may be in for a rude awakening!)
I would like to use my career break as an opportunity to achieve something and BASI level 3 feels like a stretch target and a logical progression from BASI level 2.
What's more, the more difficult I am sensing BASI level 3 to be, the more appealing it is. I guess I am wired up that way!
I don't accept that one should only pursue qualifications if they are going to apply them in a vocation.
Like I say, if there is an appropriate alternative challenge that feels like a good use of time and / or BASI level 3 is a step too far for me then I will reconsider.
I am starting to sound like I am justifying myself, so to reset the thread a little, I am really grateful for any and all feedback that helps me shape some tangible and achievable plans! Especially feedback that exposes some of the realities and challenges that I may face. My motives and funding resources are probably best for left to me to worry about...
I can't wait to get to a Snowdome and to get a good baseline view of my skiing ability and the viability of my emerging plans.
:0)
Sasha
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| sasha320 wrote: |
I don't accept that one should only pursue qualifications if they are going to apply them in a vocation.
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No, I don't subscribe to that view either. But if you are taking a once-in-a-liftime break to focus on your skiing there is an opportunity cost in terms of personal skiing if your ambition is to get to L3. You are going to spend an awful lot of time on the nursery slopes, an awful lot of time teaching kids (often without skis on), you are going to have to give up a lot of time on stuff that you might not be interested in (a week in a classroom in Scotland, for example), etc. All of that could be at the expense of such things as a month of heliskiing in Alaska, a season in Japan skiing awesome powder and learning about a different culture, focusing on personal performance with some high quality coaching. If you're just after an instructors badge because it's a challenge I think there are more rewarding ways of challenging your skiing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| sasha320 wrote: |
I don't accept that one should only pursue qualifications if they are going to apply them in a vocation.
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No, I don't subscribe to that view either. But if you are taking a once-in-a-liftime break to focus on your skiing there is an opportunity cost in terms of personal skiing if your ambition is to get to L3. You are going to spend an awful lot of time on the nursery slopes, an awful lot of time teaching kids (often without skis on), you are going to have to give up a lot of time on stuff that you might not be interested in (a week in a classroom in Scotland, for example), etc. All of that could be at the expense of such things as a month of heliskiing in Alaska, a season in Japan skiing awesome powder and learning about a different culture, focusing on personal performance with some high quality coaching. If you're just after an instructors badge because it's a challenge I think there are more rewarding ways of challenging your skiing. |
Excellent point. I'm liking the Alaska option and / or focussing on personal performance with high quality coaching.
I guess I am still not knowledgeable enough on what exactly is involved in BASI Level 3.
More food for thought - good stuff and thanks.
Sasha
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| sasha320 wrote: |
I guess I am still not knowledgeable enough on what exactly is involved in BASI Level 3.
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Weeks and weeks of assessment, of both your teaching and your personal skiing. The cost of this runs to many thousands of pounds. Even before you get to start you need 200 hours of logged teaching after you have completed L2. The standard of skiing and the standard of teaching is a significant step up from L2. To be perfectly honest, if you've not had much in the way of technical instruction yourself I think there's a very high chance that you would find the standard of skiing required to be significantly more demanding than you think it might be as an experienced recreational skier.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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sasha320,
Can I make a suggestion? Before you start spending serious money on courses, why not call one of the big fridges dotted around the UK and see if you can book a session with a basi trainer. They will be able to give you an honest appraisal of your current level and the amount of work needed to progress.
If you're aiming for the L3 you really need a session with a trainer, rather than an instructor. All basi trainers have a great deal of experience and skill in looking at that standard of skiing.
Another thing to bear in mind is that whilst you may be able to pass each course, you may simply not be able to participate in the course in the order that basi requires. You could contact Diane up at basi office and see if the course dates will allow you to take each one in the time you have
Good luck with your plan, hope it all goes well. But even if it’s doesn’t, I think it still sounds like a great way to spend a gap year.
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| Wayne wrote: |
| You could contact Diane up at basi office and see if the course dates will allow you to take each one in the time you have |
The course calendar for next season is up on the BASI website.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm really grateful for the following high quality input
| rob@rar wrote: |
| To be perfectly honest, if you've not had much in the way of technical instruction yourself I think there's a very high chance that you would find the standard of skiing required to be significantly more demanding than you think it might be as an experienced recreational skier. |
The above is a key consideration and thank you for reminding me (us) that all of my career gap options start with my current skiing capability! Keepin' it real.
| juliad wrote: |
sasha320, I can think of a real challenge for you but still going down the BASI instructing pathway! How about do your L1 at an indoor slope pre season, do the L2 at the start of the season then throw yourself into training for the Eurotest. With the Eurotest and Level 2 you can then work in France as a stagiare. Can't beat that for a challenge in a short time frame if you like to challenge yourself  |
Thank you, I'll look into the Eurotest.
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Wayne wrote: |
| You could contact Diane up at basi office and see if the course dates will allow you to take each one in the time you have |
The course calendar for next season is up on the BASI website. |
Cool.
| Wayne wrote: |
sasha320,
why not call one of the big fridges dotted around the UK and see if you can book a session with a basi trainer. They will be able to give you an honest appraisal of your current level and the amount of work needed to progress.
If you're aiming for the L3 you really need a session with a trainer, rather than an instructor. All basi trainers have a great deal of experience and skill in looking at that standard of skiing. |
Yes, a session at a Snowdome with a BASI trainer is a priority, it will settle the feasibility of BASI level 3 and also provide a key input into the feasibility of the options for my career gap year as they currently stand (in no particular order)
a. High quality performance coaching (albeit with no formal qualification at the end) and skiing experiences e.g., heli skiing
b. Alternative qualifications e.g., Eurotest
c. BASI 1, 2 and 3.
Any ideas beyond these are very welcome especially around options a. and b.
Many thanks
Sasha
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sasha320, the Eurotest would certainly be a challenge. The standard to pass is pretty high!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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sasha320, apologies for posting up something that was incorrect. Got carried away with giving you some challenges and forgot the current regs!
There's plenty of info on SH for the TT and Eurotest if you look for it. If racing (slalom and GS) is not your thing then the L3 could be a suitable challenge, but it does require significant amounts of investment - mine took just under £7k, and plenty of time on snow, skiing to a very high level. I took 2 winter seasons to do it.
If you speak french, german or italian you will probably find the teaching hours easier to get as you are more employable. I worked for a ski school in Austria to log my hours but taught one lesson in English the whole time I was there!
But I can also think of a few other challenges which involve skiing for fun...
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| juliad wrote: |
| sasha320, apologies for posting up something that was incorrect. |
Absolutely no need to apologise.
| juliad wrote: |
sasha320,
But I can also think of a few other challenges which involve skiing for fun... |
More than happy to take any ideas however weird or wacky!
Thanks Sasha
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I am currently of the belief that BASI level 2 should be relatively easy for me to achieve
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could be but do you have any video of your skiing that you could upload for review. Most recreational skiers will need to make technical changes and improvements to their skiing at L1 level and almost certainly at L2 level. Some decent skiers are unable to effect change and don't make it. At L3 being able to demonstrate different styles and techniques is mandatory and the level of precision is very high...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| Quote: |
I am currently of the belief that BASI level 2 should be relatively easy for me to achieve
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could be but do you have any video of your skiing that you could upload for review. Most recreational skiers will need to make technical changes and improvements to their skiing at L1 level and almost certainly at L2 level. Some decent skiers are unable to effect change and don't make it. At L3 being able to demonstrate different styles and techniques is mandatory and the level of precision is very high... |
I agree, my current ski ability is the key that unlocks (or not) all of my potential plans and specifically I recognise that I need to understand where and how much my technique needs to be modified / uplifted in order to progress through level 1 and 2 and possibly beyond.
I don't have a video to upload I'm afraid, however I am hoping to get to a Snowdome with a BASI trainer / instructor in the next few weeks in order to be assessed and refine my plans from there.
If anybody has any recommendations on any trainers and / or instructors I would appreciate them!
In the meantime I am furiously 'googling' for trainers and instructors...
Many thanks
Sasha
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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sasha320, if you are not fully aware of what the BASI system entails it might have been a bit unfair of me to start talking about the challenge of the TT and Eurotest. These are very hard tests of one's ability... Just maybe a bit too much of a challenge
As others have said, the issue with the L3 (not taking into account your technical ability) is the time it takes to attend the various courses and log the teaching hours. If you have the ability, money and the timings work for you, it could be an achievable goal but it is a lot of hard work if you don't intend to teach again. If you want the challenge of improving your skiing and doing some teaching work then there are options to work with the L2 leaving you time to ski for fun as well (i.e. the winter season down under). But I quite appreciate that the L3 might be the challenge you are seeking. Best to get your skiing evaluated and then you know where you stand and can start planning what could be an epic adventure/challenge.
However as other posters have mentioned, other options could be more fun and challenge your skiing in other ways! There are numerous operations offering high level ski coaching and they are ideal for people wanting to improve their personal performance and skills on and off the piste. You could combine this coaching with skiing the various continents, heliskiing, ski touring etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sasha320, The Euro test and level 3 so quickly would be a big challenge with no racing experience and only just entering the BASI system. It can take some accomplished skiers extensive training blocks to get to the standard.
With the right training and investment of time and money it is very achievable but I am not sure with the time scale you are giving if level 3 would be a step to far. If you are looking at ski instructing as something you may like to pursue after your UK career then it would definitely be worth ticking as many boxes as you can with your time off and you can always continue ticking them at a later date during holidays and when possible with work?
If you are just looking to improve you’re skiing and have bench marks then there are many amazing courses, adventures, mountains and places to visit with skiing around the world outside the BASI system.
I hope this is some help
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
...a season in Japan skiing awesome powder and learning about a different culture, focusing on personal performance with some high quality coaching. If you're just after an instructors badge because it's a challenge I think there are more rewarding ways of challenging your skiing. |
Seconded. I'll show you the good stuff on Hokkaido.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It has taken my breath away, how much sound advice has been directed my way in such a short space of time (even after I got a bit shirty at one point in the thread! <blush>)
Good news, I am booked into a Snowdome this Saturday for a video instruction session so my baseline skiing ability will be established.
Many thanks to everyone who has provided some input and additional ideas as to what might be an alternative to the BASI 3 bit of my plan are all welcome!
Many many thanks!
Sasha
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| Quote: |
If anybody has any recommendations on any trainers and / or instructors I would appreciate them!
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Pete S-G at Hemel if you are after a trainer. Gherardo at Powder Extreme in Verbier.
More broadly, I would echo Rob's points about the value of doing instructor quals and then not going on to teach. I think it can be a mistake to do them if you are after a structure for your time in a resort or have skiing goals that do not relate to a career in the ski industry. That doesn't mean I think that doing instructor courses is necessarily a bad thing or will be no fun just that day for day ski bums get better skiing.
I would not be afraid of pitching up in Verbier and spending the money you would have spent on your L2 on 1) an avalanche course and safety gear 2) inappropriately large skis w/Marker Barons (I'm assuming you want to ski off-piste a lot.) 3) a decent camera and 4) early season instruction from Powder Extreme or equivalent and 5) a 1:25,000 map. Provided you can cope with a level of uncertainty and don't mind skiing with people you have met on the internet then things will likely take care of themselves.
That said, Mike Pow's offer above is both generous and worth its weight in gold.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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sasha320, I very much empathize with your desire to have not only a challenge, but also a qualification, to show for your time off. Many years ago I felt exactly the same way about a music diploma I worked for (but didn't in the end sit, for various reasons.) However, with ABRSM diplomas, you can (or at any rate could at the time) opt for either a performer's or a teacher's diploma: that was great, because if you didn't want to teach, you still had something to work for, to discipline you, and to test your abilities against, without doing all the teaching-specific technical stuff. And you got a fancy bit of paper at the end of it, to hang on your loo wall, or wherever! I'm guessing that that's the sort of thing you would like, but at high end skiing. I wouldn't mind myself (though not at the level you're talking about.) As I type this, I have an idea to offer my wonderful instructors rob@rar and skimottaret my calligraphy skills, so that they can issue a certificate each time one of their pupils (including me) passes from one of their specified skill levels to the next! I'd be just as happy with a certificate from them as from BASI.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling, I just wanted to wish you luck. Great that you feel you can take this break. I have many friends who work as lawyers in the City who would love to do the same sort of thing, but simply daren't. 
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FAQ
its bit like Hotel Califonia in here ....you can logout but you can never leave.
or maybe all three 