 Poster: A snowHead
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We'd always gone half board, nice hotels - spoiled rotten. Never really liked the idea of cooking on holiday but it turned out fantastic. Nice not having to get all spruced up to go down to the restaurant for dinner and good not having to worry about the kids in nice restaurants (sometimes two year olds are a PITA no matter how much you try to get them to behave).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nice not having to get all spruced up to go down to the restaurant for dinner
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Quite! Post skiing with the kids is them watching a DVD and Mrs Boris and I slobbing around people watching on the balcony getting sloshed. Not everyone's idea of a holiday - but suits us!!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Shimmy Alcott, Boris, that's why we prefer self-catering. Much more relaxed as far as we're concerned, and it feels a bit home-away-from-home (except that there are mountains and snow and ski lifts just outside the door).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Nice not having to get all spruced up to go down to the restaurant for dinner and good not having to worry about the kids in nice restaurants (sometimes two year olds are a PITA no matter how much you try to get them to behave).
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I prefer hotels of the 4 star Austrian kind and I don't see many people bothering to spruce up these days. As long as people look and smell fresh at the buffet nobody minds what degree of spruce is prevailing. As for mis-behaving 2-year-olds, I blame the parents.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Pretty clear to me that Departure Date and Standard of Accommodation (/board basis), as well as how early you book drive price more than the TO vs DIY conundrum.
Can't understand why people would put themselves through the hassle of DIY!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Can't understand why people would put themselves through the hassle of DIY!
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(1) organising is part of the fun
(2) (snob alert) no sitting next to chavs on charter flights
(3) No need to stick to 7 day duration
(4) you often don't pay the hotel bill until you leave (well, that's my experience in Austria)
(5) you can try places the TOs don't go to
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As long as people look and smell fresh at the buffet nobody minds what degree of spruce is prevailing. As for mis-behaving 2-year-olds, I blame the parents.
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My hair is not hat happy. So its wash, blow dry, straighten to ensure I dont resemble Wurzel Gumage (sp??? too young to remember  ). So nice to not have to bother.
Re: the 2 year old, I am an obvious failure in not having a 100% perfect child...just how do you manage to be so wonderful all-round?
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Is it possible that more skiers/boarders are doing DIY so those using the TO are down in number?
Never tried the TO yet myself.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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eastendmyfreind,
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Can't understand why people would put themselves through the hassle of DIY
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Once you have done it a few times DIY is generally less hassle than a tour operator I find. No 3am rises as well, though I realise this is not universal it has been the case with the TO holidays I have been on. As stated previously it is also cheaper for my particular holiday preference though I recognise this is also not universal.
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| Re: the 2 year old, I am an obvious failure in not having a 100% perfect child...just how do you manage to be so wonderful all-round? |
Well mine have gone well beyond that stage so I am now allowed to look disapprovingly and tut a lot. My kids are probably more likely to disown me than the other way around.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I am currently enjoying a 16 day DIY break in my apartment. It's summer, so no TO's would even touch the place. We stayed overnight in a great hotel by the Lac du Der-Chantecoq, we;ve walked through wonderful forest next to beautiful waterfalls, and today we've had a lazy day, as we spent last night in the company of MarjMJ and hubby and didn't go to bed until at least 1.30 after a good dinner, and several bottles of wine and a few glasses of Pastis. We had a stroll up to the village this morning, and lunch at the Pizzeria des Neiges, then back home for a snooze on the terrace and a swim in the pool. More lounging on the terrace, a couple of aperitifs in the Bar Alpen, and a cooked chicken for dinner from the Boucherie next door. All accompanied by a lovely bottle of Domain de Tresbaudon wine from the Haute-Alpes. Tomorrow, a long walk for a wonderful lunch, but I'll post more on that tomorrow.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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There are 2 year olds and 2 year olds. I have had 3. 2 would have been OK, most of the time, in a nice restaurant. The other - the middle one - very often not. Anyone who think the behaviour of 2 year olds is entirely a result of the the manner of their parenting clearly has a limited experience of 2 year olds (or left it all to the wife......)
Even as older kids they would get very, very, bored, sitting and waiting in restaurants. It's OK for adults who can knock back the booze.
I've done TO and DIY. As someone says above, with DIY you can go to one of the vast majority of resorts that TOs have never heard of. To me, getting self and family to an unknown destination in a hired car (before the days of satnav  ) or on public transport, was part of the adventure. I'm 63 and in all my life I've done about half a dozen TO ski holidays and not one TO summer holiday. They've never appealed. Horses for courses. The TO holidays were all in catered chalets - without the internet it wasn't nearly as easy to find independent chalets, though we did go to one good one in Les Houches, where the owners, apart from cooking great food, also did telemark lessons (not that we did any). I can't remember for the life of me how we found them. My only big TO holiday - with Inghams - was a bit of a disaster.
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| Roy Hockley wrote: |
| I do not know if the overall figure is down! Most people I know tend to go DIY these days! I still go 3 - 5 times a year! Only twice in the last 5 years have I used a package holiday! I assume that Crystal is suffering because their market has changed! It would be interesting to know how many times regular skiers on this site use a package in a % term in the last 5 years? |
ALL of my ski trips have been packages, but 3 of my last 4 summer holidays have been DIY.
If you look at the document, the TO market is almost twice the size of the independent market.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Shimmy Alcott wrote: |
| kosciosco, doesnt appear to be, but the clever little independents are - DIY is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much cheaper and you get so much more for your money. |
It is very rarely significantly cheaper, unless you are traveling as a family or a couple, at peak times. Which, of course, you usually are, so it probably is cheaper for you.
For somebody traveling as a single and/or at off peak times, there is little difference in prices, it is other things which drive the choice between TO & DIY.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Last time we went skiing pre children we stayed at hotel alpen roc in la clusaz and travelled by train - this was in 2001. The price for both of us was significantly cheaper booking the hotel directly and buying the train tickets from Eurostar. TO packages to the same hotel were a lot more.
Since having children every holiday we have been on has been cheaper by booking an appartment with a smaller operator and organising our own rail travel. Large tour operators such as crystal state the children are at reduced prices and then charge a supplement for there not being 4 adults in the appartment. They also seem to charge a lot more for rail travel. The example I am thinking of was going to les cimes blanches appts in la rosiere.
It is also nearly always cheaper for us to stay in a luxury 4 star appartment with pool and eat out at least once a day than to go on a chalet holiday and chalets have less space on the whole, are not always ensuite rooms and no pool.
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w, agreed - even the best behavied nicest child (or adult come to think of it) can lose it big time on occassions
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| eastendmyfreind wrote: |
Can't understand why people would put themselves through the hassle of DIY! |
What hassle would that be then?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
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Nice not having to get all spruced up to go down to the restaurant for dinner and good not having to worry about the kids in nice restaurants (sometimes two year olds are a PITA no matter how much you try to get them to behave).
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I prefer hotels of the 4 star Austrian kind and I don't see many people bothering to spruce up these days. As long as people look and smell fresh at the buffet nobody minds what degree of spruce is prevailing. As for mis-behaving 2-year-olds, I blame the parents. |
I'm assuming this is a personal swipe at Shimmy for their child rearing (in)abilities rather than a generalisation.
However as I spent last week trying to stop my 2 year old hitting people with a ski pole in L2A maybe your right and i should leave that sort of thing to his mother 
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alex_heney, I read into the report that the "independent" market, was Independent TO's like Wayne in Folgardia! I meant truly independent operators supplying just accomodation or hotels where the DIY'er would get cheap flights independently, transfer independently, and a place to stay independently. I feel that the independent hotelier and chalet owner is not in the remit of the report. After all Crystal would prefer to make negative comments against those they are directly competing with! When I go DIY, I organise the three strands of the holiday totaly independtly! Only on one occasion, this year Ischgl did we mess up with our flights. (The horrendous day in January when all routes out of Austria stood still) Every other time it went smoothly and as mentioned earlier organising the trip is great fun and part of the holiday!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've organised a number of DIY trips for 4 or more people. Usually 2 families and these have been great, a 1st class feel but cheaper than the TO's can do it.
However if there are less than 4 pax on the trip the transfer becomes a very expensive part so at that point I look to the TO brochure to achieve the same result. I know some will say just hire a car etc. But I dont want to put on snow chains and try to park in a resort and maybe have to dig the car out.
About 4-5 years back we flew to Barcelona on our way to Pas de la Casa. It was snowing at the Airport but our taxi driver got us there. (I think we were the only people who actually arrived in resort that day.) No way do I want that responsibility.
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DIY or not, there is less money around and the prospect of even less in future.
That will affect things like ski trips. So you would expect numbers to fall.
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as I spent last week trying to stop my 2 year old hitting people with a ski pole in L2A maybe your right
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It may be your right to what?  I'm confused.com
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| Roy Hockley wrote: |
| alex_heney, I read into the report that the "independent" market, was Independent TO's like Wayne in Folgardia! |
I didn't.
It has always been clear in previous years that they mean those not using a TO. And I think this one was too, but it has currently disappeared so I can't go back to check for sure.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just read it and can only say, what a load of rubbish (last word edited for politeness ).
As an advert for Crystal dolled up to look like some form of pan-industry trend report, it's ok.
As an actual pan-industry trend report it's just supposition based on made up numbers follwed by dumbed down conclusions.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wayne, does anyone else produce an annual review of the prior ski season?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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No, well not that I know of anyway.
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Boredsurfing, Agree 100% with Wayne.
It's a marketing scam by one of the big players in the game to try and suck more nervous punters into booking with a "safe bet".
As a "survey", it is is load of cobblers. About as scientific and objective as trying to predict the future by delving into chicken entrails!
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You know it makes sense.
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Wayne, same as every other year then. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Samerberg Sue, I dont believe the report is available or marketed to the general public, ( I only know of its existence because Martin Bell referred to it on here a few years back. This years link was e mailed to me by a senior idustry insider I met at the ski show.) Therefore I dont belive it is a marketing scam aimed at "punters".
Crystal make no claim regarding science or objectivity, I believe it is simply Crystals review of the UK ski market.
Samerberg Sue, I was once told never refer to your customers as punters because one day you'll get your words muddled and refer to them as Pustomers or ..........s
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 18-07-10 19:42; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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how dare you
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Boredsurfing wrote: |
| Wayne, does anyone else produce an annual review of the prior ski season? |
AC Neilson (not to be confused with the tour op) produce detailed tour op / travel agency data that is viewed by most as being as accurate as it can be. Mintel produce a UK snowsorts industry survey about every two years. Crystal basically take sources like that and take a view. Yes, it's a piece of trade marketing and a PR opportunity but it isn't aimed at the general public and I reckon it's near enough. If it were all spin they wouldn't show the market as having dropped so significantly in the last 2 years IMO.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It is their significant drop in the last two year possibly! We have bookings on a par with every other year! Prices have remained the same but our estate agent is taking a higher % !! Mind you, it seems that it is the French they are marketing to!
I still stand by my origional thought that more people are doing a DIY tour these days and not using the likes of Crystal et al!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Bode Swiller,
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Roy Hockley, as are ours, in fact I have the same number of bookings, but they have booked a greater number of days, and have all stayed for longer. In Winter 2008 and 2009, we had more short breaks, and some gaps between bookings. In 2010 there were more people staying for 7 nights, so less gaps. Summer has this year been bookings fo 10 nights or 2 weeks, whereas in the past it was single weeks. Six weeks booked for 2011 so far.
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If I'm going to do DIY again should I book flight now? Is it cheaper that way?
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Shimmy Alcott, Book flights whenever you see them at a good price!
Our flights ex Cork (Ireland) to GVA cost €2.99 each way with Aer Lingus! Overall cost with bags €110, maths was never my strongest suit! Still cheap though!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Shimmy Alcott, in my experience flights to ski airports never get cheaper, only more expensive the closer you get to the date of travel. Ditto car hire.
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Shimmy Alcott, it depends, if I'm sure of the dates I want, I will book the flights, but if not 100% will keep an eye on the prices, and book when there is a sale on, unless it is for half-term, New Year etc. We have to book time off well in advance, so we may as well book the flights too. Come to think of it, we usually drive now though.
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FAQ
