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Why don't people like drag (button or t-bar) lifts?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Whenever reading reviews of resorts, drag lifts seem to be a negative factor. Other than the difficulties faced by beginners and snowboarders, why is this? Can't really see a problem with them myself. Are people too lazy to stand up going up the lift and would rather sit down on a chairlift? If so, I'd imagine people to dislike cable cars too. Not only do you have to stand up for a fair while, you have to take your skis off and hold them too (although I like the view from a high cable car if I can get near the windows). I quite like drag lifts myself, they tend to be reasonably short so time taken on the lift doesn't differ too much (and let's face it, we all need the breather offered by travelling on the lifts), the pylons aren't so big and ugly, skis are still in contact with the snow, chairlifts can be cold and windy, etc.

Yes, this is a desperate attempt at a ski-related thread in the middle of summer. I'm getting withdrawal symptoms. Very Happy
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
It gives vindication for slating La Rosiere, what more do you need to know?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I prefer to sit and have a rest, look around at the scenery, maybe take a photo, chat to friends or strangers, all of which are difficult or impossible on a drag. They are also slow and usually short, which I find a bit frustrating. Steep drags can be uncomfortable to ride. T-bars have all the disadvantages of drag lifts with the added 'bonus' of having to battle to keep skis from clashing with your neighbours. Spiteful things. I hate them all.
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I'd prefer a chairlift, they're faster than drags and can carry more people. T-bars are annoying as you have to concentrate the whole way to ensure you neither knock your partner off nor fall off yourself. I prefer t-bars and drags to walking up though, at least until I can get a touring setup Smile
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Because they make you feel like your life slowly ebbing away.
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I like them when they put people off going up a particular bit of hill, so you get a relatively nice empty run.

Only on skis, mind. Still not mad keen when I'm on a board.
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You can't talk and they go so slowly
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Chairlifts are best. I hate tiny cramped gondolas the most, especially those ones with only about a 3 inch shelf to try and perch your bum on.
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queen bodecia, I'm fine with a poma, or the rope tows, but having now had to use them I def. don't like T bars. I had an inherent worry the whole time I was on them that my skis would cross, I found myself concentrating the whole time on the skis and what they were doing and I didn't feel secure sitting on the T - kept feeling the need to hold the edge of the T with the outside hand. I also constantly worried about getting the dam thing stuck when I got off it - that didn't happen and luckily I got off it every time OK, but I kept worrying about it. They were sufficiently unpleasant that I more more worried about using the lift than doing the run at the top. Where the T bar coincided with a difficult run at the top that was sufficient for me to find a good reason for not using it very often. I used them fairly often in Switzerland in February and didn't get comfortable with them for the whole week. I was always successful (and had people with me that could tell me how best to use them), but sorry, I just didn't like them and would certainly avoid using them where I can (though its good to know that I can use them if I have to, something I wasn't certain of before)
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I don't generally mind drags if I'm on skis; they're not great on a snowboard though I suppose if I was a less useless snowboarder I wouldn't mind so much. But if they're long, or steep (or both) they can be a pain, particularly if there is no easy way out if you fall off. there is one in Flumet, long as well as steep, and if you fall off it you have to get your skis off, hike through some snowy woods and then go down a black run, which is usually mogully, and start again.

What I dislike most though is cable cars or gondolas where you have to stand in a long queue, humping your skis up every step (very bad for people with arthritic hands), then shove your way into gondola and then stand all the way up.

Some drags are nasty because they can pull light people right off their feet - not just at the beginning, which you get used to, but part way along.
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Who the heck do yas want to talk to? I can almost understand the speed aspect if everyone is in a tearing rush to get back to the top of the piste, but personally I like a little bit of a break here and there.
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queen bodecia wrote:
Who the heck do yas want to talk to?
Friends I'm skiing with, and occasionally I'll let go of my British reserve and, gasp, actually talk to a stranger!

Quote:
I like a little bit of a break here and there.
I like a break as well, preferably one where I don't need to stand up.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Rules for drag lifts:-

1) Do not start with your skis diverging at the tips or it will all end in tears.

2) Wear a full titanium neck and spine brace to avoid whiplash injuries on take-off.

3) On a button type lift, don't get your poles caught in between you and the lift pole when you get on (see (1) above).

4) If sharing a T bar, do not jam your boots up against your partner's so they fall off the end trying to get away from you

5) If sharing a T bar, agree on the dismount strategy before you get to the top.

6) There is no rule 6).
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Surely everyone is too busy listening to their music through headphones to actually talk to anyone else?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The perfect lift, which is enjoyable in warm or cold weather, has not yet been invented.

Ropetows are gash.

Buttons offer little rest.

Tbars are irritating.

Chairs without covers get cold.

Chairs with covers don't offer total protection.

Gondolas mean walking.

Buckets are tragic.

Trams mean standing next to smelly people with bad breath.
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Yoda wrote:
4) If sharing a T bar, do not jam your boots up against your partner's so they fall off the end trying to get away from you

T bars are a good way of checking alignment, if your boots are correctly set up then they shouldn't be that close to the other person's.
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old t-bars and pomas rock....

less people going up means slopes are quieter on the way down.
and usually more untracked powder Very Happy
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Don't have a problem with t-bars or pomas, well except the solid metal bar type pomas that knacker yer knackers when it goes up the really steep bit just before the end.

Don't like detachable chairlifts with ultra flat run-off areas, personally, especially if the chair before had a chairload of boarders all frantically trying to stomp out of the way.
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Just about every (serious) post with a dislike for t-bars tells me: You don't use them enough to become comfortable on them.

I can talk, eat, look forwards, look backwards, take pictures, wave at friends, slide on left ski, slide on right ski while on just about every tbar/poma.

Ride them, ride them often.

Now ... Non-Detachable chairs, those are on my hatelist... slower then just about every poma/tbar that are not nursery lifts... especially the ones that slam the back of your knees and/or without footrests or even worse too tight footrests so i cannot use them!
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rjs wrote:
Yoda wrote:
4) If sharing a T bar, do not jam your boots up against your partner's so they fall off the end trying to get away from you

T bars are a good way of checking alignment, if your boots are correctly set up then they shouldn't be that close to the other person's.

But so much effort to keep your skis running in the direction you want, especially if the track is on a camber or rutted.
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Drag lifts are short Shocked

Try the saalbach to Hinterglemm one, granted it's flat but short it is not. I also seem to remember one from this season I think it was on the Stella Ronda which had some length to it.

I don't mind any as long as it gets me up the hill.
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Ronald wrote:
Ride them, ride them often.

Alternatively ski somewhere other than Wengen.

wink
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rob@rar wrote:
Ronald wrote:
Ride them, ride them often.

Alternatively ski somewhere other than Wengen.

wink


There are only 2 left... both avoidable without missing much...
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rob@rar, Yes, that would be another symptom. Next time you are on a glacier try to get on the T bar behind a couple of national team racers and watch their skis, particularly if there is any camber to the lift track.
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I ski a lot in Scotland so am completely comfortable on t-bars and pomas. I can talk, eat, bend down to unbuckle my boots etc. However they are so tiring if you use them all day. Despite the short runs I get so knackered skiing Scotland, much more so than anywhere else I have skied. That 5-10 mins on a chair is just enough time to re-charge for the next run. Going up a particularly difficult drag lift can often be more tiring than the run down.
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I am perfectly happy on them in that I can use them without having to concentrate, can take photos, blow my nose, eat a snack, etc. but I still don't like them because they make my knee hurt. I have a minor knee complaint that doesn't hurt when skiing, but does hurt if my knee is in t-bar position for a long time. So I prefer a chair lift as they give my knee a rest, and on particularly strenuous days, would go out of my way to avoid them.

D
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i know of one very experienced (aka old Wink ) instructor who always gets his early intermediates on pomas in preference to other lifts if possible. where he teaches, the area you would normally take early intermediates has a load of green runs served by pomas, chairs and a gondola-type thing. his reasoning - the more time they spend with their skis running on the snow the better
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I quite like steep pomas and t-bars, mainly because it tends to restrict who goes up them Smile

Oh and one of the longest and most boring must be the one that links La Rosiere to La Thuile and feels like it goes downhill at some points.
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queen bodecia, Never tried a T-bar when your on a snowboard then??????
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

the more time they spend with their skis running on the snow the better


a good point. On easy drags there are also plenty of exercises you can do (one leg etc) including some very fancy things which most of us could never hope to do - like spinning round 180 degrees and riding backwards.

Watching the young racers on the T bars is an education - they can do anything on them. I'm with megamum - I don't ride them enough to feel really comfortable and I like that outside hand on the end of the bar.
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Quote:

and feels like it goes downhill at some points


The ones on holiday last Feb both have bits that go downhill - most disconcerting and an almost conscious effort not the let the skis run on faster than the T bar - Yuk

Poma's seem easier to stay on for the duration and easier to get off. The worry I have with a T bar is that I feel less secure on them and concerned about finding my way back down to a piste across deep unpisted stuff should I come off half way along - not to mention a concern that some T bars may have areas that the operator can't see to stop the lift if someone comes off and thence may not prevent chaos ensuing as a result of an 'occurrence' of that he can't see. Not to mention the fact that I might be that 'occurrence'!! My ski companions also tell me that it is deadly if you end up sharing with a child.
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Because if your not careful you can trap the meat an' two veg in a most uncomfortable manner - especially on those ones that take off with a sharp pull Shocked
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Unfortunately I dress to the same side as my leading foot when snowboarding.
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Don't mind them in general and some offer access to big areas and are low capacity so keep the snow better but on the down side.
a)They are tiring if you have to use them exculsively and if you have a boot probelm you can end up very sore.
b)Pomas are antisocial
c) They are low capacity a queue can look decptively short but if it consists of beginner snowboarders falling off you can wait a hell of a long time.
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ricfrench, strictly planks only. Very Happy

It's always amusing when you get to a slightly downhill bit on a poma or t-bar and you desperately try not to overtake the lift so that it doesn't pick you up out of your boots when you start going uphill again. Very Happy

Obviously I don't have the meat and two veg issue. Maybe that's why these things don't bother me at all.

In fairness though, for once I almost agree with Whitegold. There is yet to be invented a perfect form of uplift. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. I like gondolas and cable cars for the warmth and the views, but it's such a faff taking skis off and climbing stairs, etc. The newer, faster and bigger forms of chairlift have the advantage of speed and some have covers, but they have the disadvantage that you rarely get one to yourself to enjoy a peaceful ride up.
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I agree that dislike, particularly of T bars, is generally a lack of practise thing. Of course I grew up on them and we have them on the glacier (as on all skiable glaciers) so I don't have any problems. However I would say that I love a chairlift with footrests and cushions - nice rest and you can work longer without getting tired. Very Happy
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On a board I like t-bars, much easier than button lifts. The latter I really used to struggle with (I could quite happily get down a black run yet couldn't get up a button lift!) but after a day spent on the nursery slope supporting a mate learning to ski I managed it, and riding switch coming back down: practice makes perfect! Still rather do a t-bar tho.

On skis it's the other way round, probably something to do with the fact the first time I tried a t-bar on skis I fell off, moved over to the side the got twatted on the head by the downwards t-bars, all in front of the lift queue....
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Hate drag lifts but T bars are worse. Problems are:
Getting on. Sometimes a nice liftie grabs them and makes sure you are on and OK before you go. Fine. Some have an easy spring so you can grab, adjust, then let it drag. Fine. Others have a spring than needs Arnie muscles. I cannot, with one hand, pull them down enough to adjust under bum and straiten up. I've yanked it down and it's just sprung up and off, before I've had a chance to turn it under bum. If I'm lucky I can let it go. If not it catches under jacket/up somewhere else and it's an undignified exit. Others in queue are not happy, especially as I've insisted on going up alone.

When you're on. No rest and feet hurt. Have to concentrate. Once I hit a lump of ice and my ski came off the binding rolling eyes (hire skis). Let's face it, how often does that happen on any other type of lift Evil or Very Mad . And if you fall off, often there's no easy way back. No room at the side (especially if it's double) and a hike through trees/deep stuff is the only way down.

And if you've made it to the end - here comes the worst part. The dismount Shocked . Too early and you're hurtling backwards, too late and you're in the icewall. Just right and ... just can't pull the bl**dy thing down with my non existent muscles (particularly) in my left arm. Can end up hooked on jacket or worse. If on deck, next swinging T bar could take eye out.

Therefore, I will only go on T bars if there is absolutely no alternative or someone extremely competent goes with me.
ronald wrote:
I can talk, eat, look forwards, look backwards, take pictures, wave at friends, slide on left ski, slide on right ski while on just about every tbar/poma.

He can, he looked after me OK! Little Angel
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You lot have it all to easy. When I was young we had to walk up.

Just learn how to handle them properly.

rolling eyes rolling eyes
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