 Poster: A snowHead
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I am trying to find alternative arrangements in regard to child care.
Normally we go with esprit as the childcare is excellent but this year we are running into a few difficulties. Namely my son and daughter are going to be in separate child care and their lessons alternate between morning and afternoons so they will be apart all day.
Of course all the adverts tell you that there are so many kids they will have a great time but basically my daughter did not enjoy it last year. She was on her own with other kids but did not enjoy the ski lessons and became really clingy towards the end of the week and it made it really hard for her mother. She was just under 4 last year and next year will be just under 5. She actually cried her eyes out the last two days when we left her.
My wife is absolutely adamant that she is not prepared to go on a holiday that my daughter will not enjoy but the problem is that the group we are going with does not have any kids within her age group. When we started to discuss skiing the other day she burst into tears and said she didn’t want to go and hated it. Not a good starting point really.
My 6 year old son was with his mate all day and loved it and he will be 7 next year but esprit say it is absolutely not possible in any way to put them together.
I am now trying to find an alternative but as esprit offer such good deals (free kids etc) we can not find anything close to it price wise and as a couple of our friends are as tight as a gnats whatsit they are not prepared to go with Mark Warner or someone else like that.
I am looking into renting an apartment and making my own way and organising my own childcare but again it is like a black art trying to find the right child care. I am very nervous about dropping them off in some huge French speaking playground with 1000 kids.
Has anybody got any recommendations for a really good child care outfit in the three valleys or val disere or somewhere where they will take both kids together and potentially a three year old as well. I want them to have fun, learn to ski and be in a friendly environment and not feel abandoned.
Thanks for help.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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mheadbee, We used to use Esprit but with 3 kids we found it cheaper to buy a place. We bought in Les Arcs but still use a nanny from Val at Safehands. Just booked with her for next year and you would be shocked how easy and cost effective it is to book a private nanny. Used them 3 times now, the kids love them and service is great. Her main base is in Peisey in Les Arcs but we don't need the nanny till 9.30am ish so they can ski over (we are in Arc 2000) and they have lessons from 1.30pm so the nanny gets to ski the afternoon. She only covers Les Arcs but life's a bitch if you 'have' to going skiing in Les Arcs to keep the kids happy.
There are better and cheaper options than Esprit, though in fairness the time we did use them they were brilliant.
http://www.safehandsfrance.com
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If you want a combination of lessons and well run creche I think Snow Bizz in Puy St Vincent are the best option and are very good value compared with other child friendly companies. The children's lessons are all in the morning and there is a creche option in the afternoon (you don't have to use every day) and evening club/babysitting option too. We went with them when our children were 3 and 6 and had a brilliant holiday. Both children skied in the morning and did the creche together some afternoons. The accommodation is fine but not luxury - advantage is that it is metres from shops and chair lift. Resort good enough - not my favourite but worth going to at least once for the snow bizz experience.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| mheadbee wrote: |
I want them to have fun, learn to ski and be in a friendly environment and not feel abandoned.
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You may well consider that my reply is of no use to you but have you considered ski school/private lessons in the mornings followed by the afternoons skiing together? Works well for lots of people.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks for all the suggestions, i will certainly look into all of them.
The problem with private lessons is that it can all start to get very expensive, the great thing about esprit is that you get first child free and second 30% off in a full catered chalet, most other companies give you a token £50-100 off per child so you wind up spend another £2000 on the holiday.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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mheadbee, sorry to hear of your difficulties with Esprit, we have not been able to use them despite having wanted to because of their inflexibility, in our case they couldn't accommodate an already skiing 4 year old, wanted to put him in a garden.
snowymum, is right about Snowbizz and I second her suggestion! They will be cheaper than Esprit almost certainly. Your kids will be in seperate skiing groups I think (this may be negotiable if it is important to you) but at the same times and then would come together afterwards in the creche if you want afternoons covered too. They also have an evening kiddie club for 2 hours each night which is great. The ski school is their own and the lessons are exclusiveley for their clients. It is a very good set up indeed. Also it is a family run small firm and you can very easily phone and have a chat with them, mentioning your needs and worries, and you will probably find it very reassuring. Can't speak highly enough of them in terms of personal attention and childcare. Small resort but nice feel, good snow and good weather record. Best of luck with it.
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Good to know I'm not the only one who has found Esprit too inflexible to use. I was very keen to go with them a few years ago but the reason we've never used them is that you have to take their charter flights/coach transfers and we didn't want to. I think its odd that they don't mind missing out on those customers who want to fly scheduled, drive or use the direct Eurostar ski train and it has put me off them as a company. I was also put off by their extras like a few pounds per night for an ensuite bathroom.
mheadbee - If you put esprit prices for every aspect of the holiday and snowbizz in a spreadsheet I'd be very surprised if Esprit is cheaper overall (I do a spreadsheet for each skiing holiday and include accommodation, food estimate, travel, lift pass, ski lessons, ski hire).
Many of the resorts Esprit use are better known ones with more expensive lift pass prices, ski schools.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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mheadbee, You could look at Venture Ski in St Foy, I know their child care is very good, they are a bit more money than Esprit, however when you look at the savings on the lift pass this makes up for it. They are quite flexible on all aspects being a notch up from other operators plus the chalets are much better and the food is great.
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mheadbee, I feel your pain....and wish I'd appreciated how easy the child free years were!!
2 suggestions:
1. A private nanny for the week in France would be about £550 (perhaps cheaper with the exchange rate) which doesn't compare too badly to £460 for 2 x childcare. Plenty about if you google. Of course only you know whether this would suit your kids.
2. Hang around for a late "Single Parent Saver" deal with Esprit. There are tons, every week every year, so not much of a risk. You and your son could go skiing for under £1000, and you could then use the £1500 you'd save on a full family trip to go on a second holiday (probably not skiing) focussed around the family. (This is the theory I'm trying to swing past my wife this year anyway)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Jimihendrix, i like you idea and have gone one better. I have decided to ditch the family ski holiday and go to florida instead for 2 weeks. My wife wanted that and my daughter is delighted. My son is also over the moon at going to disney but part of me feels a bit sad because i know how much he loved skiing an I really wanted him to go again.
However, on the plus side i am going with the lads. i always do a long weekend with the lads, usually 4 days skiing but the indications are i could get a whole week this time round. I still feel guilty about my son, i suggested last minute single parent with esprit to my wife and she responded with "what about my holday then", I said she was getting disney but i realised i could be jeapordising the lads trip from bring a full week if i pushed it. the fact it would be easier for her to have one chld rather than two when i am away does not seem to help!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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mheadbee, JimiHendrix,
sounds like the best of both worlds! I used to find that after waiting a little time then dropping into the conversation that its cheaper to do a weeks skiing than a long weekend worked
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Yes, I did that 6 years ago when my son was 2 months old. I was trying to go for 3-4 days to join the group and it was "pay for a week and go for 3 days stuff". Eventually she said, just go for a week, and I acted all surprised as if the thought hadn't occured to me, "well, I suppose I could, but I would feel awfully guilty, but if you do insist" I said as i casually pulled my already packed suitcase out from under the bed.
The other tactic of course is that her best mate decided the same day as us to ditch their family ski trip and told her husband (my mate) he could have a week. I have 8 months to work on it so the best thing is just to keep quite and "assume" it was agreed it was a week. It will all come out eventually and i will say, "but everybody else is going for a week, you cant change your mind now"
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
the fact it would be easier for her to have one chld rather than two when i am away does not seem to help!
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that's a shame, because I think splitting kids up so that each has 100% of a parent, doing something they can enjoy together, is often much better than shunting them off to expensive "child care". The kids and the spouses all tend to like each other a bit more after a break, too. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| JimiHendrix wrote: |
| 1. A private nanny for the week in France would be about £550 (perhaps cheaper with the exchange rate) |
Paying £320/400 euro for a private nanny next year in France.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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thefatcontroller, all day or half days?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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thefatcontroller, is that through Safe Hands?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, Yes.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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thefatcontroller, thanks, useful info.
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It will sound very biased if I said I'd rather put one of my nuts in vice than swap family skiing for family Florida won't it ... 
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ctskifam, Amen 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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ctskifam, I have no nuts, or would concur.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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What ctskifam didn't say is that Ski Famille may be your answer. We didn't want to go with Esprit last year because our 3 children would have been in 3 different childcare options. Also we didn't want our 5 year old to have to ski everyday as she found it too much. And we didn't think the 3 year old was ready for skiing at all. With Esprit we wouldn't have had any flexibility with ski lessons at all.
Ski Famille offer you in house childcare - all the kids together, and they will take them and pick them up from ski lessons.
We had a fabulous time, kids loved it!
The go to Les Gets and Reberty (3 valleys)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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tizzyb, thanks very much, glad you had a great time. I try not to push myself too blatantly ... mostly. To give some balance I used to work in Florida quiet a bit so my bias is not entirely pro family skiing, it's also anti Florida! Works for loads of people I know, just not my cup of tea.
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You could try renting an aprtment in Siviez, Switzerland. Its cheap because there is nothing there, but is actualy the best access into the Verbier ski system.
At the bottom of the appartment block is Arc En Ciel, a ski school that pretty much only does children.
They have a creche for those too young, and will teach them upto junior racer level
As an instructor myself, I have always been really impressed by them
Easy to get to from Geneva
Its why british couples with young children have bought so many of the apartments
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You know it makes sense.
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What Alan McGregor, said, appts are reasonable too . . . for Switzerland. Arc En Ciel are good apparently, friend regularly drops her two with them for a morning.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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mheadbee, hello!
we have a similar family structure to yours and similar probs. Me ad Mrs Ed- both keen skiers. Boys now 8, 5 and 18 months.
We have gone skiing a lot sk (since kids). This is not easy and compromise is the order of the day if you want snow......
1. Money- it costs a lot.
2. Time skiing- no mater how much you spend you will pay more for less skiing than ever before.
3. Off piste- with kids you just can't go very early- you have to drop off- skiing you (I ) tone it down a lot - I really don't want to get injured whilst on holiday with 3 kids.
4. Kids-if they are going to grow up in a family that goes skiing a lot- then when they are young- for a week, two, may be three a year they are going to be abandoned- for a little while - in a creche. Best English speaking, best with other kids, best with family- but the bottom line for us is that these have not been a given. We love our kids - a lot. Mrs Ed and I get a baby sitter once or twice a year and go out together- actually not at all for the last 18 months....but we do go skiing. Apart from the baby they have all been left- screaming or not in creche at one time or another. But the up side for the older 2 boys is they now ski- and have a great time. Our eldest boy has now 13-15 weeks skiing and skis fast enough......
Suggestions.
A lads trip with your oldest child- we have done this 3 times with last minute Esprit 'single parent saver' type hols. From 5 - this is a great - cheap- dad-son bonding- fun- everyone is happy (except now Mrs Ed who wants to come too). In your circumstances this would be my favoured option- to tide you through your younger child's ambivalence.
As suggested already a private nanny and DIY apartment- the draw back is that what kids like on holiday is- other kids- and this option does not give that. Also you might miss what I think lots of people like on ski holidays 'the crac'
Group holiday with friends who have exactly the same aged kids; private lessons for younger kids, shared private nanny and or shred DIY childcare- this is fine if you have a group of friends who can fill a chalet- an uber organiser and a chalet (in Peisey) run by another friend. We do this it is a good option ....
Bottom line- who decides where you go on holiday?- you or your 4 year old child?... sorry to be harsh. I think your options in the posts above are reasonable- either she goes with you all (in creche)or she skips a year and instead you go with junior. Or I guess the question is do you have any good gear you want to sell?
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Poster: A snowHead
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mheadbee, I have been with Skifamille a few times recently, I am 100% happy with every thing they offer and do, my children ( 3-5) love the nannies, the skiing ,the holidays and the other children in the chalet will probably be in the same ski class. My elder daughter is not the easiest to keep happy , but had a great time and by the end of the week was skiing icy blue runs with me, so the instrctors in Les Gets know what they are doing, I have not used them in the 3V's. Cost is an issue, but there is no easy solution to that, other than rent a chalet with friends and share the child care between you , but how hard would that be , looking out at the piste when it is your shift with the kids?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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we loved snowbizz in puy st vincent, childcare there is excellent. found espirit too inflexible (can't eat dinner with children  )
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FAQ
I really think it is not possible to book any room anywhere with them which doesn't have a supplement for something 
Other operators manage to have a pretty fixed inclusive price with only obvious stuff as supplements but not Esprit. My final straw came with them when they wanted to charge me a very hefty underoccupancy supplement because I had only one child sleeping on a sofa bed when they could have put two on it 
then? 
